Wow. I was going to chime in here, but you boys seem to have it all covered. Nice work, both of you - spot on w/ a lot of what I was going to comment!

Turn that around, North. It's her fearing your indifference.

It's a strange phase. When I hit some of those low points, FWW would prod me until I popped, and then just stand there and weather the flame.

The problem is, that because of our own misconception of strength as men, we bottle, stuff, withdraw, and then shut down.

The possible end result is that we eventually shut them out completely.

It took the posts of other FWW's on this board for me to realize that. It also took reading the posts of some other long-term vets, some of their stories, to realize that we are going to pop some times during recovery.

Manage those blowups, but next time it happens PAY ATTENTION.

The strangest thing I noticed is that I gained respect and love for FWW for weathering those storms.

Ooops - to add; those moments are also moments of emotional vulnerability on your part.

It's the actions you undertake that must be reshaped. Not instantaneously, but over time.

Thanks HHH for being here for NW. I have been preoccupied.

Yeah NW your little speach back there was a huge pile of LBs. Wow. But she stood and took it. You should share your pain and hurt. Just make it about your feelings. FWWs respond to seeing true full range of emotions in BH. Be vulnerable but work on your LBs. You may not get a pass next time. She will stand there and take your anger as her pennance but not for long.

SF? You want emotional fulfillment. You can be a taker and just "get some " but that's a dangerous road. Its bettrr to recognize you both need to be emotionally invested. She used you aslike a cheap toy to hide her affair. As long as you got SF you stayed clueless. Do you want a cheap happy meal or a satisfying dinner for you both?

Usually, that's not been an issue. It's only when (looking back) I saw that I was vulnerable during her affair that causes the problems.

I did much better tonight. Thanks, guys.

Yeah, I pretty much ran the gamut of every LB you can think of.

I would say I agree with you on the "being used" re: SF, but she really didn't go down that road except when she was on the wagon. Once in October 2010 (no contact for about a week) then early April 2011 (no contact for about a week) and then the other night. So that's, what, three times since April 2010. Damn near a year!

But, yes, like you and HHH said, a cheap happy meal isn't what I/we are looking for.

NW - I hope your family is safe and your home is intact!

CNN is reporting some nasty news from overnight...100+ dead in the South from tornadoes and storms...

And the slow cooked meal is MUCH tastier than the 45 second microwave kind.....

NW - just had a chance to catch up on the last couple of pages. Hang in there my friend! I agree with the advice above, but you've got to keep her on a short leash right now. One of the things I noticed while my WW was in the A - SF was 'wifely duty' to her. In hindsight, of course, I can see why. She was having 'fun' with it elsewhere, but it was a price to pay to stay with me. I noticed that she was there physically but not emotionally. That was a big deal because we used to have such a great love life - for YEARS! It changed a little when DS came along, but we managed ok. Then, last year, with the surgery and the A, the bottom dropped out of it in terms of frequency and enjoyment. It's very ironic, because ultimately the surgery should have had the opposite effect.

Like most males, when I was younger it was all about the chase and 'getting a piece', but once I was married it was all about the connection. It's one of the things I miss the most.

Hang in there and be vigilant!

Doing good, TB. The tornadoes started not far from here, but it was those in eastern MS and Alabama that got the worst of it. Kind of weird weather lately.

Hey Andy,

In hindsight, I'd say it started going downhill around early 2010 when she was checking out and before the affair. But the changes were so slow that I really didn't notice. Figures, huh.

Things are improving now, but we've still got a ways to go now.

I am very happy for you, NW.

What's weird for me is I don't know what I'd do if/when my WW says she's had enough of the D stuff, and wants to return....

That's a good question... really - How would she go about telling me? Is that part of the problem? Is she so far along that she thinks she can't turn back?

Dang WayWards!

Which one?

Haha Rimshot please.

But it does bring to mind the revealing part of the sex drive doesn't it? Once you have that connection, just getting our weinie waxed pales in comparison. It also hurts quite a bit when you find out what you thought was going on with W, was not really what it was, and you feel like fool after.

Yeah Andy, thats why I think honesty is the most important thing in the relationship. But thats this week, maybe when I was 20 SF would have felt like my most important EN. Hard to tell. But I wouldn't have wanted to be lied to sex or not.

Well we can talk about that all day.

Hope you have a good day Andy

Hey N, just peeking here. what you are feeling could be the normal resentment in all likelihood that BS's feel once their WS's have made the decision to return to the marriage? could be wrong. it was MOST impressive that ur W stood and took it. that says a lot about her amigo and where she finds herself now! i would give anything to be in your shoes in that regard as you well know. not even close right now. and dont know if i ever will be. thus look at that glass which appears half full!

CP - LOL - Got me on that front.

NW - Just hang in there and try to take it day by day. The thing I keep coming back to in your situation is that leash - it's got to be short and it's got to have a choke collar at the end of it. In a perfect world, at least my version of it, you'd have the filing or separation papers drawn up and ready to go. That way, if she falls off the wagon, you can take immediate action. I know that's easier said than done - but 3 times? Enough is enough. I know that my WW pi$$es you off; and rightfully so. However, yours is doing the same to me.

agreed. 3 times is enough. my W is at #2. and i want to get it right bc this has been going on for over 2 years with the back and forth. i never really did anything right after that first time. got to the point where she did say ILY but then along came OM#2. as much as i try not to say it, but what does that say about me? i was doing a poor job of figuring out this sitch until i happened upon MB. you are in a pretty good place right now N. your W actually appears to be quite invested in this process!! i said it above, i'm really envious. my W's fog is not going anywhere anytime soon. this will not be able to go on much longer before i just proceed with the next step in all likelihood.

I disagree.

NW's WW has come back to him... and he's in a position to truly make it work this time... they say 3rd time's a charm....

And the two of them are in a place right now that will require more than us knuckleheads can offer.

I am proud and envious of NW and his WW....soon to be FWW.

Keep up the good work NW, and give her an ounce of forgiveness and a teaspoon of trust. That's a good recipe to build on...

Well, the third time had better be the charm as there is no fourth chance.

The way things went last night I think I'll be ok.

NW - glad to hear it. I know it would be difficult for me to deal with a FR twice, but each situation is unique.

TimB - If third time is a charm - does that mean I have to go through a couple FRs before I get it right? (Just kidding, just kidding) LOL.

Yeah, difficult isn't the word and I'm kind of surprised that I stayed around. Having the kids was a big factor--as it is with you I imagine.