Oh and another thing. Recreational companionship didn't end up in his top 5. This confuses me because he seems happiest after returning from golf. Is it possible it is a strong need but it's totally being met by the guys? I asked him what he thought and he said he doesn't really like RC unless it's something he can be best at or go all out (I had always thought the competition with the guys was the big draw).

Where does that leave us as far as UA time and finding things to do together?

The reason he doesn't have RC in his top 5 is because his friends are meeting this need instead of YOU. He is getting his needs met outside of marriage. And he is asking you to meet his needs [financial support] in a way that makes you unhappy and takes you out of the home.

None of the above addresses the top 4 intimate needs that create romantic love. Domestic support does not cause someone to fall in love. Financial support does not cause someone to fall in love. But, converstation, affection, sexual fulfillment and rec companionship DO. I would put aside all the other emotional needs for now and focus only on the 4 INTIMATE EMOTIONAL NEEDS and eliminating lovebusters.

In your case, it is a lovebuster for him to ask you to work outside of the house so much, so I would focus on quitting your job. I get the sense, though, that he really isn't too interested in making you happy and restoring the romantic love in your marriage. It seems like his goal is to maintain his independent lifestyle while using the needs to get as much as can out of you without any return on his part.

That misses the point. Playing golf or competing with others does not restore romantic love to your marriage. The purpose of RC is to be together so you fall in love with each other. That obviously does not happen if he is playing golf with men.

The CONTEXT of need meetin is within the marriage, not without.

Ok. So we should concentrate on the UA and meeting those 4 needs that do lead to romantic love. And stop the LBs. My working so much really does make me feel uncared for and unloved so I'll work on that. I've been doing pretty well on not doing the DJs and AOs.

Your comment about the feeling you get may be right. I guess time will tell whether he is willing to truly work on restoring love.

This is EXACTLY where I would focus all my attention if I were you. That will get you the farthest the fastest. I don't believe he really has an EN for FS, though. I think that he is just very focused on saving and making money. And that is fine, but he needs to find another cash cow than you. He can sell stuff, quit playing golf, etc, but he has to find a way to do that that does not make you miserable and does not endanger his marriage. His desire for extra money DOES NOT create romantic love by making you work, it erodes it. I would not contribute to that path anymore, FH. It is not good for your marriage and is not good for you.

So how do I present that to him? He won't like it. I would like to just quit one of the two jobs for now and see how that is. But in his mind won't he think I'm not meeting his EN and won't he see that as a LB?

No, it is not a lovebuster to quit that job and that is not his EN. You are NEVER supposed to meet ANY EN in a way that makes you unhappy - that is rule #1. You are not supposed to sacrifice and that is what you are doing. I would explain to him that the job makes you very unhappy. Unless he wants you to be unhappy, he won't have any reason to object.

And FH, you are contributing to the problem by agreeing to keep that job. By doing so, you are eroding the love you feel for him. You should not allow that to happen anymore. Here is what Dr Harley told PrincessMeggy once when she was ruining her marriage with the bad practice of sacrifice:

here

OK. That clarifies it for me. I've been thinking that I need to focus on what the MARRIAGE needs. When I think of it that way, things make more sense.

You do need to focus on what the marriage needs, and what it needs are two people who are happy. That will not happen if one of you is gaining at the other's expense. That will not happen if you are making sacrifices. Sacrifices lead to incompatibility and a loss of love. It has brought you to a place where you want a separation.

Any thoughts on when you will be quitting the job?

I think i will explain how I am feeling this weekend. I'm a professional so I must give a month's notice. Hopefully I can be done by the end of May.

That's a great start, FH. I am so happy to hear you are taking action on this. I would show your husband Dr Harley's quote and explain to him that it is simply bad for your marriage to sacrifice and you are ending that practice. For him to push you into staying so he can get more money only causes you to feel he doesn't care. I am glad you are doing this.

Mel, what does she do if he attempts to flip this and say that playing less golf is a 'sacrifice' he is unwilling to do?

I'll let you handle that one for her.

POJA dictates that they do nothing until they both enthusiastically agree on what to do. No golf until they both are enthusiastic about when, where and how much. And she also doesn't work the 2nd job.

Dr. Harley talks about 2 kinds of resentment. One being caused by your spouse gaining at your expense, and the other caused by NOT doing something for yourself that you would like because it would hurt your spouse.

The second kind is easier to overcome because it disappears when the couple finds something to do together that they both enjoy. The first kind only erodes the love of the sacrificing spouse.

Having to play less golf is the second kind of resentment. He'll get over it, once they find something to enjoy together. Working the 2nd job is the first kind of resentment -- she won't get over it -- he is gaining at her expense and she will only come to hate him.

Following the Policy of Joint Agreement When You're VERY Incompatible

Remember that everybody's love bank contains separate accounts for everybody they know, male and female.

The guys can make deposits into their accounts all they want, but it won't do anything for YOUR balance in his love bank. You need YOUR balance in YOUR account in his love bank to go up, and that's only going to happen from deposits that you make.

I just heard an old Marriage Builders radio show this morning where Dr. Harley directed a man not to engage in any recreational activities until he and his wife had found something they enjoyed together. He didn't want the man to experience a "contrast effect" where the things he did without his wife (who was ill and stranded at home, with limited options) seemed less fun by comparison.

Talked to dh for a long time tonight. My question is, can MB work with someone who is saying he is reluctantly going to try? Dh says he will do the 15 hours etc., but he will not express his real needs or feelings. Says if I say we're going bowling, he'll go bowling. But he will not express what he really wants because I can't take it. My hypersensitivity, he believes, is our main problem. So he's not going to tell me what his LBs are, because I'll not be able to take it.

I told him I don't see how MB can work if he's not radically honest. Says nope, he will not do that because I'm so sensitive I'll divorce him if he says anything I could work on.

My opinion is that yes, I am very sensitive. But once my love bank is full and if he tells me the things I need to work on in a respectful way (that's not how he said things like this in the past, it was with an angry tone etc.) that I'll be OK with it. In fact, I told him that if this program is put into place and months go by and I am still upset with him a lot, then I would go to individual counseling if that's what I need. But I don't see how he can judge until we try it.

He said he IS willing to do the UA, but it's gonna be what I want. Can this eve work?

We did the rec inventory and had some ideas of things we both like before he said the above. But now I feel weird just picking something.

The easiest way to slip into this is to have him write out a list of activities that he'd like to do. You do the same. Then give the list to each other. You'll both find activities on the lists that you like to do and new ones you'd like to try.

Have him start with drive-by honesty. When you do something that upsets him, he'll simply say, "it upsets me when you X and Y."

FH, he is sabotaging the process before it even begins. He is making sure it won't work so you will drop it. What a way to make sure that the marriage never improves, blaming you for his lack of honesty. The truth is, HE can't take your reactions. He simply does not want to deal with it. Did you ask him how he expects you to stop LBing him if he won't even tell you what you're doing that bothers him?

I think you'd do well to make stopping the LB of AO your first priority. Kill yourself being pleasant and easy to get along with, and plan on spending a couple of months on that alone before it becomes a natural part of your personality. Maybe he will begin to be open and honest at that point. Maybe he never will. But you now have his honesty that he doesn't want to be honest because of your AO and inability to accept criticism gracefully, so work on that!

Meanwhile, about the RC inventory--did he fill this out without seeing your choices? I would just plan those activities you both rated highly.

If you can swing it, call Steve Harley in the coaching center and let him be the heavy with your husband. Steve will explain to him his own sabotaging behavior.

Yes he did fill out the RC separately, so at least I have that. But he said I have to initiate everything we are going to do, he's just along for the ride to please me. I told him I want us both to have fun.

I am and will continue to work on AOs and DJs. I will be pleasant. I'm just feeling hurt by all this. He say MB is just like all the other marriage programs, the woman dictates what happens and the man has to do all the changing.

Does he want a romantic relationship with you? Have you asked him that? Does he want you to be in love with him?

You said that he is afraid you will divorce him...does he realize that will be MORE likely if he keeps up this attitude of "Whatever, don't wanna do this, but whatever, just shut up"???