I don't even know where to start....

Almost three years ago my BH caught me in a lie and I had to tell him I was having an A. Then I told him I had another A several years before. I never was in a fog, I never contacted the OM again, I left my job right away (we worked together), when the OM tried to contact me many moths latter I told my H immediately. For the first time I saw myself in a way I never had before. All the lies I told to protect myself over the years, the way I had ruined our marriage and how it all affected my H and our kids. I had to change everything now or I was lost.

My H is a good man, but the news of the two As hit him like a freight train. He was completely destroyed and the man I knew was hidden somewhere beneath the rubble. We have spent the past 3 years trying to rebuild our M and our family. We had been married for 19 mostly good years and had 3 teenagers that ended up sticking it out with us through some really dark days, but besides our own family we were alone. Both of us made some pretty big mistakes, especially in that first year after the A ended. My loving H was now angry and mean. Both verbally and physically abusive at times, he demanded instant obedience and above all else, answers. If he had a question about either A, I was to give an answer on the spot and without hesitation. The problem was that for many years I had been on loads of pain meds, sleeping pills and anti-depressants, and on top of that I was a habitual liar to the point that I wasn't always aware of what the truth really was. Now I wanted to be honest but I didn't always have real answers and without even trying I would just pick the answer that seemed right. My H even had answers for me when I couldn't think of one. I'm glad to say that we have both grow evidentially and the bad behavior on both sides has been replaced with mostly rational behavior.

So, here we are in the midst of recovering from 2 As and all the damage we've done to each other while in recovery! Some really big issues seem to be killing us and I'm not sure where to go now. We have just started reading the MB material and have devoured this web site. The questionnaires have been helpful but are also hard.

We are having huge problems with "the truth". I've been trying for the past year to undo all the lies I made up in the first year, many of which I don't even remember telling him. I now will let my H know if I don't remember something and that I need to think on it and he is good about letting me search for the real answer (though sometimes I never find one). Crazy as this sounds, there are many things that I honestly believed were true when I said them and now see for what they really are...LIES. As I work to recall things I have found many truths and I always share them with my H. He really struggles to not see me as a liar and he has a hard time believing me about everything. He says he can't believe a word I say no matter how hard I work to compensate him for everything I took.

I'm losing him and now I'm losing him for being honest. My hope is fading as I see him pulling back from me more and more. I'm open to any advice. I want to be the wife he needs. We have come so far... I'm praying that this is not the end. I love my H more than I ever knew someone could love.

Hoping I'm not too late...

Have you booked a polygraph?

BG,

Perhaps this is trivial to mention, but you might try creating a timeline for your affairs and write down EVERY detail that comes to mind. This may stimulate your memory and allow you to layout a coherent, accurate and credible story.

Perhaps too your H could speak with the OMs and OMWs to get their perspectives, are their other witnesses to your affairs confidants etc your may have spoken to?

God Bless
Gamma

Does your H post here?

While I understand being open and honest, going over something as awful as A-related activity can really put a damper on recovery efforts. As the BH in my M, I tackled that by keeping a journal of the A, then putting it away. If something new was remembered by my FWW, it was added to the journal. That approach stopped me from worrying over every sordid detail and got most of the truth out fairly quickly. That approach might not work for everyone though.

Scotty's suggestion is excellent.

I was a WS, and I was a liar, just like you. The A ended upon discovery, but I lied to my H's face about it for months. I swore on my daughters' lives that I did not have sex with another man. I even told him I'd take a polygraph, knowing surely he'd never ask me to actually do it.

I was a miserable excuse for a wife.

The truth came out after 4 months of lies. By the time I took a polygraph - on my own accord - it was too late.

But even though I've lost my H, I don't regret doing the poly. I'd do pretty much anything to restore my M after what I did.

Polygraphs may not be 100% accurate, but research shows they are extremely difficult to beat - unless you are a psychopath or sociopath, and I doubt you're either or those, BG! It's worth a shot, and it could mean saving your M.

I have offered to take a polygraph. I think the big problem is that my H feels there are too many questions for that. We have made timelines and it has been somewhat helpful. We also have spoken to the OM...one of whom continues to deny almost everything and the other who is an even bigger liar than I was.

My problem is that there is no room for failure here on any level.

OK - yes, there are limits to the # and type of questions on a poly - that is true. But a good examiner can look at the issues and frame questions that will cover several of them. My H wrote a list of questions that I took to the examiner and she was able to create questions that would cover several of the q's my H had. I took two tests and she couldn't cover everything on two tests, and she wouldn't do more than two tests on the same subject per day.

But here's the thing - don't just offer, BG - just do it. Your H may very well never thank you for it. Mine never did. And he may still believe I am a liar, but at least he knows there were some things that were proven true, and maybe in time he will come to believe me on the other parts as well.

But at some point, once your BH has all his questions answered about the A, you will both need to stop dissecting the A because bringing it up LB's you both.

If he would be willing to post on the forum there are lots of folks here who will help him.

Thanks WPG,

I'm going to talk with my H about it again. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to stay his W.

He does post here on occasion. He's read the whole site I think! I just feel like I need to make a grand gesture of some sort to prove my sincerity.

Interesting, I specifically asked you about trickle truth when trying to get to the root of your problems in your R thread...and I just went back and checked and you didn't answer that Q...

I'm going to say something, and you may not like it;

Your claim as to have "never been foggy" is one of two things - a complete and utter lie, or a complete and utter character flaw.

The fog is a process of self-justification for hurtful, immoral behavior. When a person commits, and continues to commit an act that is against their core beliefs, they mentally construct justifications as to why it should be "OK" for them to do so.

THAT is the fog.

So, you either don't understand what the fog is, or you don't really have any remorse or regret for your actions.

The fog isn't just for waywards - it's for addicts, alcoholics, abusers, thieves, and anyone else who compulsively follows a behavior that they know is wrong.

No fog? No sense of wrongdoing.

What name does he post under?

HHH is right. When you had the first A, and hid it from your H for however many years before he caught you in the second, that was fog. The lies you told to "protect youself"? That was fog.

Just b/c you don't have (or didn't have) withdrawal from the A/OM doesn't mean you're not fogged. It took me a while to realize that also. I didn't mope and moan and cry over the OM either, but I was still a fogged-out WW during the first 4 months of supposed R. And why was that?

Because I lied my tail off. I attempted to justify it - oh, I don't want to hurt my H any more, I don't want to lose him, yadda yadda yadda...but to put him through 4 months of trickle-truth, lie to the marriage counselor, and all my family and friends, and on top of that, return a phone call from the OM and then try to conceal it from my H again "because I didn't want to hurt him any more and I wanted him to believe me", can you say, FOG??

Like I said, I was in your shoes...maybe, if you don't make the same mistakes I did during R, you can save your M. Maybe you can't. But it is worth fighting for, whether you ultimately save it or not; even though it is hard as h377 sometimes and you have to face the ugliness inside yourself, and clean up your side of the fence...that's where I'm at right now, BG.

What have you done to compensate him?

Well then I totally misunderstood "fog". I though it meant getting over the OM. That not being in a "fog" meant being able to cut ties completely and not missing the OM at all. Forgive my lack of understanding.

I have first of all done everything he of asks me. I have told him everything I "did" in detail (at his request). I have taken my H places where I spent time with the OM and made an effort to "reclaim" those places for us. I plan special weekends away for us to put our work on hold and just enjoy each other. I threw out the clothes I wore during the A because they were all triggers for my H. I cut ties with my family because I found out they were working against my H. To this day I don't go anywhere alone. I call or txt my H if any man speaks to me even to say excuse me in passing. I stay on the phone/txt with him when I drive to and from work. I keep my chat open all day at work so that he can contact me at any given time. I've changed my sleep pattern to keep his hours. I write letter, send cards, buy small gifts... And there are other personal things that I don't feel free to talk about.

I'm willing to do more. I just need to know what.

"Trickle Truth" is a new term to me. I didn't lie intentionally but in retrospect I did lie. When I posted last week It was my very time talking to ANYONE about the As. I'm trying to catch up with all the terms and honestly I'm terrified talking with all of you. This is the first time mu H has given me permission to speak of it.

The only way to truly fail is to lie.
Commission or omission, both are failures.

Added:

If you tell the truth and divorce, it is not a failure.
If you fail to tell the truth and remain a married liar, that IS failure.

I see a lot of excuses in your first post for the lying. Now you are making excuses for why you were not honest with me.

Telling the whole truth is going to be hard for you because omitting the truth has become a habit for you. Your first step may be acknowledging this and acknowledging you have a lot of work to do on becoming a more truthful person.

I don't want to lie. I know I have a lot of work to do that's why I'm posting. This is my last chance. Could you please clarify what I lied to you about because I'm unsure of what it is and I really want to understand.

I honestly wasn't making excuses. I was trying to give background so that others could give me more informed counsel.

Thanks

BG,

Trickle truth is when a spouse gives a limited version of what happened and then as time goes on or evidence surfaces more is found out or admitted to...example.

January...W-"we only talked"

Febuary...H-"I spoke to OMW, she said he said you kissed once" W "yes but only once"

March....W-"alright if you need to know we had sex"

Net effect was to lose 2 months of recovery time, and Lord only knows how much trust.

And in another sense every additional lies becomes another betrayal. So instead of cheating once it became three.

God Bless
Gamma