This will help you prepare for your divorce. In my state if you can prove adultery, you don't have to pay alimony. Get hard evidence. DON"T PAY ALIMONY!!!

http://www.dadsdivorce.com/father_divorce_forum/viewtopic.php?t=13374

I would advise you to not invite her to watch what will in essence be the Official End of Her Family. I would not do that to a child, regardless of their age.

Thanks, hadn't looked at it that way.

Good point of view.

I was being selfish and wanting a "witness" but it would be unfair.

You are 100% correct.

Thanks

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why there is a need for a big confrontation.

If GivingUpInVA were trying to save the marriage, then yes, it's needed. Now that he is going a different direction, different tactics are needed. He needs to gather as much evidence as possible of the affair while the stbxw doesn't know he's doing it. The evidence goes to his lawyer.

He can tell her in an email or a letter that he is no longer willing to try to save the marriage and that he is planning to file for divorce. No further explanation needed.

It sounds like she's not going to react well no matter how the message is delivered.

I guess I've been doing this too long that I pictured it going the way it had in the past.

Maybe I'm focusing too much on D-Day and should just let it come from my lawyer.

The only "evidence" I have is in-car recordings of conversations they had while they were both in the car physically and some while she was talking on the phone to him. Don't know if that counts since it's a pretty big gray area legally.

But the idea of just telling her as a matter of fact and presume there is no need to discuss the affair is a spin I never thought of.

Need to think some more on that.

Thanks

File for divorce first. Don't tell her you're going to file for divorce. Don't tell her any of the moves you plan on making. Just take action. And let her play catch up.

Open you're own bank account that she has no access to and start putting your paycheck into it.

Cancel all joint credit cards.

Phone records are admissible. If she's made dozens of calls and texts to this guy it could be enough to prove the affair.

Plan. Do it all at once.

Thanks for the advice -- I spoke with several lawyers regarding filing options. If I can prove infidelity, then I could file a contested divorce and it could be over in as soon as 90 days and she'd pretty much be denied alimony (our kids are adults).

I'm working on a plan to obtain sufficient evidence that is admissible. I believe she's using a "secret phone" that she keeps at work to call him because his numbers don't show up on our joint cell phone account.

Can you subpoena records for a divorce?

Thanks

Honestly, I can't answer with 100%, but I think you can in civil cases. Something you'll have to ask an attorney though.

Glad to hear that there is at least some "fault" in VA. Here, even with all of my evidence, it wouldn't make a difference in anything. The only thing it affects is the 6-month waiting period... And, they use the Melson formula for CS. This state is perfect for cheating spouses...

And I don't think you can file a "contested" divorce. The response from the Respondent is what determines contested vs. uncontested. Basically, you state your case when you file. Then the other party either agrees or not. You will basically file that you're divorcing because of adultery; then your WW will either contest or not. Well, this is how I know it to go.

Keep working GU. Get that plan together, and execute.

Your attorney can subpoena the phone records. You cannot.

At least that's what MY Virginia attorney told me.

(Side note: my attorney specifically did not advise me to, but told me that if I took photographs of text messages on WxW's phone, they could be admitted as evidence.)

If you want uncontestable proof, hire a P.I. When I was digging out WxW's affair, I read a lot and found that a decent P.I. can get the goods in as little as three days, which means the cost isn't as great as one might fear.

Thank you all again for the advice.

I set up new bank accounts, secured a lawyer, got my hands on all important papers/documents, etc.

I also found out that my wife and her "lover" were meeting at a restaurant this morning in another city 2 hours away where she had a meeting (she was driving, he lives there).

I got there first and waited -- sure enough, they got in his car (the restaurant wasn't opened yet) and started kissing.

I had my telephoto lens and secured all the photographs I needed for evidence of adultery (per my lawyer).

Unfortunately, my anger took over (I apologize to all who gave me sound advice to just initiate the divorce and then tell her).

I confronted them in the parking lot. The shock on their faces and the way he tried to deny being in an affair with my wife were all so funny it made it worth the effort.

I handed her my wedding ring (and in a "I'm not too proud of" moment) told him he might be able to use it if he doesn't mind "used" things. I really have never called her any foul names so it was out of character for me, but it was in the heat of the moment.

As I was driving home, my STBXW had the gall to call me and, after telling me how glad she was we were divorcing, kept trying to convince me that she still puts our daughters' needs in front of her own.

Then, in a classic demonstration of her sense of entitlement, she asked me if I would still help her write a paper for her college class that is due on Sunday.

I told her to ask her "lover" for help and hung up.

I think the roller coaster is just starting.

Considering the bad kind of confontation is one where you wind up in jail, I'd say you did pretty well.
(I broke my hand on my Wxw's first lover...)

I'm glad you had your finances secure, and I'm glad you had your telephoto lens.

Opt

GU,

Everyone here will definitely understand your "human" moment. You haven't touched the process of detachment yet, so that reaction was pretty much inevitable in that situation.

It's in the past now, so just make your plan forward. You WILL have to curb this kind of behavior though. It will get you nothing short of a restraining order...

Also, congrats on the fantasy-crashing moment. While it may not have been advisable, on a personal level, it really is a "worth it" moment.

NOW, GO DARK!! It has been significantly helpful for me to communicate using only email and text. STBXW occasionally comes and asks me questions, which she gets about 3 word answers. You WW will not like it. They really don't like it when everything doesn't stay status quo. But, OH EFFIN WELL!!

I agree with all the advice to stay cool from now on, and if the two of you are living apart, Plan B (DARK) is probably well advised.

I applaud you for the telephoto lens. When you confronted them did you have the camera with you? Knowing you have proof might cause them to put up stronger defenses.

On the other hand, I note from your narrative that OM started back-pedaling right from the get-go. The possible side effect of your confrontation may be that OM now realizes he may be on the hook for her, now. It's one thing to be getting some action on the side, another to be put in the middle of a (gasp!) "relationship."

You may have driven a stake into the heart of the affair.

That doesn't mean WW will automatically come to her senses and want to repair the marriage (it's too early to judge by her reactions now). But that isn't what you want anyway, is it?

I'd like to second itsa's comment regarding putting a halt to this type of behavior. It's very easy for a WW to make a stalking claim under these circumstances.

If they aren't aware you had a camera, I'd keep that between you and your atty for as long as possible.

istaname, Fred and Zim --

Thanks for the advice. I'm planning on going as dark as possible.

They know about the camera because I continued taking pictures of them as I walked toward them to ensure my STBXW knew I had the evidence I needed to prove infidelity.

The other thing she did was threaten to "press charges" since I MUST have broken into her government email account to get the info I have.

I thanked her for letting me know there was incriminating evidence in her email and told her I would obtain all that via a subpoena from my lawyer and I didn't need to crack her account. Government email is archived by law.

Didn't sit too well with her that her office might have to do work because of her affair.

Since then I can count on one hand the number of words exchanged.

I intend to keep it that way as long as possible but I will admit it's harder than I thought.

She sent me texts all night long begging me to help her with her paper. Letting her sit there and twirl herself into the ceiling trying to write the paper without my help will be very hard for me.

I think I may spend the weekend at work.

Thanks again

GivingUp, I don't recall you saying if your W and OM work together. Do they? You did mention she admitted using a government computer to conduct her illicit affair.

That in itself could be damaging (sometimes known as a "CLM," or "Career Limiting Move"), but if they work together, the agency itself could be in jeopardy for some form of sexual harassment action. I may be off base here, but it's a thought.

As for helping her write her paper, I'd say given your mindset, you should think about a deep, dark Plan B.

As soon as possible.

ITA with Fred. (including the legal stuff).
Your kids are in college. "As possible" should be pretty dark. Very dark.
Folks here will help you with it. Many here have implemented good plan B's. Just remember the important thing: it's for YOU and your sanity. The more exposure you have to the craziness of your wayward foggy STBX the longer you take to recover and get on with your life.
--I was no expert BTW, I tried to be dark, but am only now starting to get the hang of it; a year after separation... (having 2 young ones doesn't help).

Anyway, I can say with some confidence that her being able to text you is not the kinda dark you want. Block her. or change your number to get started.

Opt

Thanks optimism and all who have given advice and insight that helps me believe I'm not going insane.

I was in a meeting earlier this week and was pulled out by one of my coworkers because my cell phone had been ringing non-stop. I usually leave it on silent but forgot and apologized to all those around my office who were distracted by it.

Turns out my STBXWW's "man" had called her and told her his wife was being followed by some man who told her something upsetting and he had to come home right away. Confusing, I know, but this is what my STBXWW told me while accusing me of being 2-1/2 hours away where her OM lives and following his wife.

I assured her I was at work and even had a coworker tell her where we were (in Virginia, not Maryland). I even went outside, took a picture of the sign for the building with the address on it and sent it to her. I then went to the store and bought something to have a receipt with a timestamp and location.

She told me she'd call me back when she knew more and I told her I didn't even know her OM was married, but thanked her for the info.

She never called back and I called her several hours later and she said her OM simply told her I was telling the truth and it wasn't me following his wife.

Apparently, he's either cheating on both his wife and my STBXWW with a third woman or someone from his work saw him and my STBXWW together and told his wife.

Fast forward to last night -- my STBXWW comes home, wakes me up and tells me she doesn't want to throw away 23 years of marriage and is willing to "go get help". I told her it wasn't enough, four affairs was too much and I'm done. She started bargaining away everything -- she'd quit her job, she'd stay at home, she'd go to counseling, etc.

I'm tired of being her safety net into which she can fall after her OM go running back home when their affair is discovered. I'm done.

My personal belief is that's exactly what happened, he went running home to momma and dumped my STBXWW and now she's looking for someone to "love" her.

I have no idea when this woman replaced the woman I married, but he never ceases to amaze me with her selfishness.

I'm sure it will be an exciting Mother's Day.

Good for you, GivingUp. If this was the first affair, I'd say give it another shot, but not after 4. She's been dumped. Let her deal with this reality.


I have to agree her level of selfishness is off the charts. All of us who have been victimized by a cheating spouse and have seen how the affair(s) change that spouse have asked the same question - where did the woman (man) I married go?

You can do this. You can start again on your own. You will be better for it.

Thanks for the reassurance.

I'm so done with her.

If someone told me a month ago that I could ever feel this level of "done with this marriage" I would have told them they were crazy. I was committed to my marriage and working on being a good husband/father.

It's the vascillation between sadness, anger and resignation that makes it so difficult. As soon as I can go totally dark, the better.

Thanks