This makes no sense to me. Would you elaborate?

Who took a chunk out of whose backside? Wouldn't that make him a narcissist, to have the action of, "Oh, that hurt? Well here, let me do it again, HARDER, just to prove that I don't hurt you"?

.

To use your wording here, if he showed some semblance of emotion, you might feel a little less like you married a "sociopath."

Or, it could be quite infuriating that the man has been purposely hiding any and all feeling from you.

The "stone face" isn't pleasant to live with, and I only dealt with it for 2 weeks.

Uh, yeah. That's why I asked.

Does he have a habit of retracting his interactions with you when you call him on his bull?

Thank you. I understand that! I'm game for all-out. I'm already furious, I can deal with infuriating stuff since I learned to control my AOs. I'm game for growth. Bring it!

It wouldn't be like it was the first time he deceived me. I would be relieved, actually, if he owned an emotion, and if he would admit to any ownership of my feelings or experience? Elation is what I would feel. Even if it was "Hell yeah I wanted to hurt you, I wanted to drag your soul into hell." I would feel relief and elation that he owned anything at all.

That's so sad!

Immagonna own something right now...already owned it to H...after he told me about the cancellation of our anniversary, I didn't want to talk to him. He's rang the phones (both cell and home) a dozen times, leaving nasty messages about me not answering. That's terrible of me. I don't like it when it's done to me, I shouldn't do it. I hung up on him when he started yelling at me about how he hadn't lied about planning the weekend, he *assumed* (see first post in this thread for full explanation of why I don't buy that), I was so mad that I just stopped and was done with it. I eventually returned his calls and told him that I couldn't talk to him. So, that's me, that's what I did. I don't see anything positive coming out of this unless he will admit that he misled me to believe that the weekend was secure and that we already had plans for it.

He thinks it's okay to lead someone to believe something, and then change it. The weekend it is changed to is the weekend before my maymester finals. He told me back in February that he needed to pick a weekend to have off before June, but he'd convinced his boss to give him the first weekend IN June off for our anniversary. I would have chosen another weekend, earlier this year, had I been given the chance. I'm full out of good weekends, and he typically leaves me like this: with no good choices left. I hate that.

He has a habit of deflecting blame, either claiming that [whatever] was taken wrong, or that something was misunderstood. He rarely makes plans with me, but yes, when he does, they are rarely kept. Calling on bull is a theme, but is not present in all of those.

We do spend a lot of time together, but most of it is unplanned. We'll decide Friday morning to go out Friday night, neither of us really plans anything else that keeps us apart, and usually we're good about planning for work or school events that step into the regular family time of evenings and Sunday, and let each other know. The anniversary w/e is something outside of the regular schedule. I'm just pissy because I was told I had a special weekend planned, and it was only a fantasy "If".

Maybe I wasn't clear? Don't post to me. Leave me alone.

CWMI, when was the last time you two filled out ENQs and LBQs and exchanged them?

Have you ever tried to go through Dr. Harley's workbook together?

Markos, I've tried bringing him back to MB after our 6mos of coaching, but he thinks it's bunk and not of the 'real world'. The last time we did either Q was last year during coaching. He's not on board, thought it was manipulation.

I honestly and truly don't think he has the capacity to consider someone besides himself. He's a fantastic salesman, though, and sold me through marriage and several children. He's very good at mirroring, and making people think he is just like them. I certainly thought he was a different person than he has turned out to be, and other people see him completely differently than I do...he is interested in different things depending on who he is talking to. I think sales fits him. He is very good at faking caring.

This is so outside of my pay-grade.

I take it he is not just "good," but a rather successful salesman?

Bleh. He sounds like a status-seeker who found a trophy, and can't even bother himself with taking the time to take care of it.

I don't want to sit here and bash your H, there has to be a redeeming quality somewhere... anywhere... I don't know.

But I can't tell you how to make him value his marriage and his family. It also seems that whatever you try, he doesn't get it.

... reverse psychology? The bigger the turd action, the more EN-meeting you pour on?

I. Don't. Know.

My head would explode.

Could you tell him, honestly, that continued participation in this program is a requirement for you?

Honestly? It would have to be the online program. And I'm not ready to divorce if he doesn't.

I must be sick in the head!!! No wonder he doesn't take me seriously. If i slip into D-land, I won't come back. If I separated, it would be permanent. I can't love someone and block them out. If I block someone out, it's permanent. I had one boyfriend that I got back together with, and never again! Gah, it's worse the second time around. When I'm done, I'll be done and there won't be any discussing it. I'm not *there*. That's my problem. I can't put him out until I'm fully done with him, and I can't get him to take me seriously unless I put him out. At which point I won't care if he wants to please me, because I will be thousands of miles away (at least emotionally).

Would I be terrible to tell you that you are absolutely nuts?

hahaha....no.

CWMI-

I hear that you don't want to be a single mom to 4 kids. Personally, I wouldn't either.

What can you do, so that when your husband behaves like he has, again, that it won't affect you so much?

You know the quip about the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. How will you stop your insanity?

I could drink copious amounts of alcohol or have a steamy sordid affair with an 18-year-old freshman at my school. Or both!

I'm kidding, of course. I have no idea. If he is a sociopathic narcissist, there's nothing I CAN do but remove myself.

He makes no sense to me, at all! With the overheard conversation thing, he was back to his benefit-of-the-doubt plea, that if only I would give him the benefit of the doubt, everything would be fine. Then two days later, I find out another thing I gave him the benefit of the doubt on--planning our anniversary weekend--blew up all over me. I mean, it makes sense that someone without empathy would argue that the problem is that the other person is disappointed, not that they themself disappointed anyone, because they are perfect and wouldn't DO something like that. That makes sense in an 'understanding personality disorders' way.

I am also terrified of NOT being around when he has the kids, assuming he would actually take them, and I think he might as many other people have reported that their ex suddenly wanted to be father of the year, and his public image rests a lot on him being able to say this or that about his kids. If we lived apart, he wouldn't hear about anything to relay to others, he would have to actually participate. Right now he can get away with an hour every evening, but if we hit visitation there would be full days where he would have them, maybe even full weeks. It almost seems that the thing to do with a PD parent is to maintain the ability to be present for all interactions with the kids. He hasn't done anything that would warrant a court ordering supervised visitation, and the kids are too young to have a say. KWIM? It's not like he beats them, but as I asked him the other day, "Did you just use sarcasm as a discipline tool with a 6yo?" AFAIK, that's not illegal or deemed dangerous to a child. It's just ugly and non-productive.

CWMI -

I have not been here much, but see you have reactivated this topic of yours. I don't know how to get your husband to do it, but he should try something besides sales, something totally different, to force himself off the path of least resistance for his personality. What I am saying is that it sounds as if he has gravitated to a vocation which is easy for him, but my guess is it is not satisfying for him. He would rather be doing something else.

Have you explored that with him? Very few wives are brave enough to help their husband transition from a lucrative line of work to something which makes both husband and wife happier by being something really satisfying, something they always wanted to do or to be. You sound like that kind of woman. Ask him.

I asked him to take a persoanlity disorder test I found online (one of the non-jokey ones) and it resulted in Very High for narcissism and histrionic, High for OCD. The others were all low, it checks for markers of about ten different PDs.