markos, are you going to offer the DJ help or not? Cause I want to read it, if you are so inclined.

No, eliminating disrespectful judgments.

First of all, do you realize that you are DJ'ing your husband all over this thread?

Did you know Dr. Harley says the most important thing for a wife to do with an OCD man is not to judge him?

Again, why should he see the program as anything but manipulation? After all, you come here time and time again saying how broken (my paraphrase) your husband is. So why wouldn't he see the program as nothing more than your attempt to fix your husband?

Furthermore, since you perpetrate on him the same sorts of things you complain about, why would he see this as anything other than manipulation?

I believe you are trying to manipulate us, saying how bad your husband is so we will side with you.

So I can totally understand why your husband would view this as manipulation. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with your husband. It means he's more perceptive than you give him credit.

You cannot complain about his behaviors on one hand and excuse the same types of behaviors when perpetrated by you. If your standard is you want him to accept how you feel, then you have to also be willing to accept and permit him to feel and think differently.

You are not willing to do that based on what I've seen you write.

You blame him for not wanting to do the program. But what have you demonstrated as a benefit to him of participating in the program?

Have you picked something you think he wants, or have you picked from his list of things he wants and said the program will address your complaint about X, Y or Z?

It's likely he has chosen not to participate in the program because he finds YOUR application of the program to be manipulative and of little or no benefit to him, or provide no hope to address his complaints about the relationship.

Even if he's all the things you say about him or more, wouldn't he be willing to engage in the program if you made a credible case about how it would improve his life? Of course it would. If he's all about himself, then you have the perfect carrot to offer. The program will address things in the marriage that he complains about, making things better for him.

Since he doesn't see the program in that fashion, and sees it as manipulation, he sees the program as you viewing him as defective and that all the work and none of the benefit goes to him.

No, was not aware of that second point. Radio show?

First point? I thought I was doing pretty well at reporting actual statements made by him, and actual actions--for the most part. I'm sure my opinion slips in there. Straitening him out? I would LOVE to, I would love to be able to get through to him that being thoughtful is in his best interest. He said HIMSELF, "Things at home have been awesome, I don't know what my problem is." Are you just supposed to leave a mentally disordered person alone to figure it out? Ain't gonna happen!

Has Dr. H ordered you to anger management?

EE, if what a person wants is independence and to not have to consider anyone else, there is NOTHING in MB to offer them that.

Nothing.

None of us here are clinicians, and trying to diagnose what's wrong with our spouse is absolutely counter to Marriage Builders.

Then again, why are you staying with him if you know that's what he wants and you are unwilling to give it to him?

If you've judged things to be impossible, then why do you remain? Sure it's tough to be a single mom. But it doesn't seem easy to be his wife either. So what is it that prevents you from taking this step?

On the other hand, is it really independence he wants, or not to be bothered by you? After all, if he wanted you to get married, what's changed? If he wanted to get married, I doubt he was all about independence then.

So is his apparent changed position due to what he's experienced in his marriage with you? If so, what do you need to change such that marriage with you is more appealing than independence?

Ordered, no, but he told me my problems weren't going to get any better until I got into anger management and did something about the situation.

EE, I've already answered that. Married, I can be with the kids everyday and diffuse situations. Divorced, I can't do that.

About getting married in the first place...I thought I had chronicled that conversation at some point on this board. He told me that he felt that getting married and having children was something that happened TO him. Not something HE did. It HAPPENED TO HIM. Do you understand that? I sure don't. All I can do is repeat what he said. I sure thought we were getting married because he asked me and I said yes. Then there was the conversation where he said that the only reason he told me he wanted children (after giving birth to his third child) was because he thought he couldn't have any. Um???? wha?????

I told ya'll at the beginning of this thread I was stupid...

Yes, I'm looking for segments for you.


The following are disrespectful judgments you have recently posted:

"He will attention-seek no matter what he is doing"
"he won't care, no matter what"
"you can't treat [him]"
"you are assuming that I'm talking about a mentally healthy person. I am not"
"If we lived apart, he wouldn't hear about anything to relay to others, he would have to actually participate"
"I honestly and truly don't think he has the capacity to consider someone besides himself"
"He said no, like a true narcissist who doesn't care about other people, lol"
"Hy H has chosen to see the program as a manipulation tool "
"I'm done putting lipstick on a pig"

Can you learn how to be respectful towards his point of view even when you don't understand it and even when you think it is outrageous?

CWMI,

I think it's very unfair to attempt to armchair diagnose your spouse from internet sites.

CWMI
1. NPD is being removed from a new revision of DSM IV.
2. No, you cannot diagnose a person based on questionnaires.
3. You berate your husband here but justify it by his behaviors you want to change and at the same time you are angry he talked inappropriately about you to his friend. Mirror, mirror on the wall...

What's unfair is telling your spouse that they shouldn't be disappointed that you lied about planning an anniversary weekend, and if they're going to insist on being disappointed, then you just won't do anything at all. Ever.

"Yeah, you don't like that? Well here, I'll do it again...harder!"

I'm give out, ya'll.

FWIW, I'd like to go on the record as simply requesting that he take that quiz, I did NOT demand it at all, and the results are from his self-reported answers. This is the FULL EXTENT of my request, WORD FOR WORD: "Will you take this test and answer honestly? *link*"

That is the entire conversation pre-test. Every last word of it. It was an email.

My conversations here are open to my H, he has read my thread. He is welcome to say anything he'd like to about it, I VALUE HIS INPUT and have asked him for it. Seen him? His conversation was meant to be private and I was not ever to know of it. I think there's a difference.

Yes, that's unfair, too.

Do two wrongs make a right?

You've probably heard some people here use the word "deflection." That's what happens when you come to your husband to tell him about something that bothers you, and instead of addressing the issue you raised, he starts talking about something else that bothers him. It's something people do for some reason that I guess makes them feel better, but it makes it impossible to solve problems.

Anyway, deflection is what you just did. People are trying to show you a very real problem, something you can change. And without looking very closely at the issues they are raising, you brought up the wrong things that he is doing, again. You could do some work here and eliminate some disrespectful judgments. You did agree that those judgments are a problem in marriage.

Your husband is certainly guilty of some pretty mean and nasty stuff.

Disrespect about him from you won't make the situation any better at all, though. It just hands him the perfect excuse not to ever fix anything.

You do believe in Marriage Builders? You want to do things the Marriage Builders way?

Are you open to having us call you on it when you are expressing disrespectful judgments about your husband here on this board?

Okay. Are you saying this is the reason why you want to continue to engage in disrespectful judgments?

By your willingness to stay, you demonstrate to your husband you will tolerate his behavior.

With your behaviors, doing many of the very same things, you tell him that such behaviors are really OK.

What ACTIONS are you taking, not just words, but real actions, are you taking to say that such behaviors are neither acceptable, nor will you tolerate them any further?

Absolutely, markos. I believe in MB, and I believe it takes two to work. My H *pretends* to meet my needs "There's no travel! I can't get online access! I booked our weekend away!" and it's LIES, markos. I'm not talking about some guy who flounders or forgets to pick up milk. I'm talking about someone who consciously and intentionally lies to continue a fantasy where he is perfect. Yes, that's a DJ. It is also sadly, my life.