Everything you detailed above in your M life was a lack of POJA and PORA. Your old M was also filled with love busters and lack of care (fulfilling each others ENs)
Notice I say Old M? With these strategies employed for life. I do believe that is what a M should be and its also one you can bask in.
The resentment and pain you feel today will go away more and more as you adopt a new way to live your M.
I am no better than my WW. Her selfish acts were a mirror of mine. There was no care in our M. No honesty and Independent behavior. Thats no way to live.

One other comment. I think the feeling of safety comes from transparency and extraordinary precautions. My H has become totally open with his feelings, plans and actions. In addition, he has a written list of EPs that he follows. These two things have been very helpful to me. I stil have my down times, but they are not near as frequent and don't last as long. It is getting better and better with time.

AM

Just an update....Things are going better in my head this week. Must have been that roller coaster ride we all talk about and dread. So that was a bad few days on my part--bad thoughts swirling around. No LBs from H at all, just lots of deposits. So I started really working on concentrating on those-the good things that are happening NOW; it's a big effort at times. FWH repeats the EPs to me frequently so I know he remembers them.

One really helpful technique when I go crazy trying to figure out the "How could you DO this?" is to read the posts of others. All the WSs seem to go down the same path once they start walking that road to adultery. It's like a cancer or some other disease, in which you can just expect certain symptoms to occur. That part was so darned amazing and sad to realize. When I first read them to my H five months ago when I found this site and he was open to listening to some reason, he was humbled by knowing his experience was not unique or special in the least. The whole "soul mate" thing, the rewriting of marital history, the ILYBINILWY speech, the trashing of his family, everything...his adultery had all the symptoms of all the other wayward spouses out there. Just reading that helped the both of us, oddly.

So thanks again for your encouragements. This is a marvelously helpful site.

Im glad all is going better for you and I so understand the Crazy days. We all trust and hope they get better...and they do.

A little update...The occasional really bad day still happens, but I find there's almost always some trigger.

The most recent one was watching (okay, I'm embarrassed about this) "Glee." Was in the library and H thought I might like seeing it, since I was recently in a group that sang a medley from the show. What a mistake. Not only did it NOT count for our UA time, the more I watched that married male teacher with the guidance counselor, the more disgusted I became, because in my mind, I kept seeing my FWH and OW instead. Finally after a few episodes, I blew up. Started small but then turned into a full-on AO when I told my H I hated him for what he did. Sigh. So we turned the set back in to the library, vowing to be more careful.

Other times are during SF; being in my own mind is a bad place sometimes. Images of OW swirl in my head and make it really hard. AUGH! So finally I suggested music would help. Only there are triggers in some of the songs. So we went through a bunch of songs and found some really nice ones that are "safe" and enjoyable. Hoping that it works out better.

As time has passed and we have created a new lifestyle for ourselves in this new place we have moved to temporarily, I take some comfort in knowing that I am sharing some things with FWH that OW never can. We have hiked some beautiful trails and agree that for both of us, this is most lovely place we have ever lived. He says very often how glad he is that I didn't leave him, that I am still here, even though there are still some tough days. He's more affectionate and loving than ever before. Still can't quite take in the difference in him.

We tried golf for the first time ever. Pretty lousy at it, but it didn't matter, because the course was so beautiful.

We learned a really fun strategic board game that we both enjoy; meets both RC and our UA time. Perfect.

Still not sure how I feel about him, whether it's a romantic love or a caring love or what, but I will give it time and eventually I'll figure out how I feel. H says every so often how much he wants to earn my love and respect back. Very humble. He's never been like this before.

It's hard NOT to talk about it, but you are all correct in that talking about it most often makes the whole thing worse. Kind of like stirring up a pile of poop. Just makes it more stinky and gross. There's really no resolving it. It can't go away. I can have a marriage with infidelity in the past, or I can have no marriage with infidelity in the past. Thirty-one years is a lot to just give up on with a H who is promising to follow MB for life.

Well, this pretty much sounds like a normal course of recovery.

For a long time, the only music I listened to was Italian and Greek tenors. I had not clue what they were singing about and there was no danger of being triggered from the lyrics.

TV shows are another story. We pretty much stuck to reality shows. Even then, we had an issue last year when H wanted to vote on-line for a singer who sang "Lips of an Angel". H said he had no idea the song was about an affair. In any case, it developed into a problem. I thought H was insensitive and H thought I was upset over something that he did inadvertently. Later, Dr. Harley's advice was that we POJA EVERYHTHING, to include who to vote for on the reality shows.

We play golf together as well and we both are terrible. That is why we only play golf together. And the bugs have been so bad this year, sometimes the golf has not been as much fun as it could be.

SF is still an occasional problem. My H's A was intensely physical and it was very frequent. There is alot there for me to get past. Yesterday, I was down because I need to buy new lingerie. During the A, one time I was shopping and H made fun of what I was buying and then a few weeks later bought OW lingerie. There is no way I can shop when he is with me. I think my best approach is to shop online.

Best to you.

AM

I love your musical ideas! Someone posted a thread asking how get the adultery thoughts out of the mind of the BS. Not too many people answered. I guess that means not too many ideas. I had no idea that so many triggers existed. I hate even hearing wedding songs about promises or songs I used to sing along with on the radio while FWH was deployed. He thought it would be great to include in the play song list, "Unchained Melody." I immediately said NO, because that was one I used to sing along with, and one of the lines is, "Are you still mine?" No way did I want that included.

For a month or so after D-Day while I was still in shock and some disbelief, I had some fun buying little cute lingerie (part of the hysterical bonding.) Then reality truly settled in, and I would pick up a little naughty something I had purchased and had actually worn, shove it deep into the back of the drawer and shout, "F*** those red panties. I'm never wearing them again!!" And I never use the F-word but in the case of the lingerie, I did. Who knows how to predict what goes on in the mind of the BS?

FHW told me the other day, while he was on a few days of vacation with me, that he would like to do a vow renewal. I looked at him with some great surprise. "Why would we want to do that? The first vows didn't "take", and neither did our 25-year anniversary renewal vows." He hung his head and said he knew. I suggested we use the MB Online Memorandum as a kind of jump off point into a renewed marriage. He liked that idea. They are specific promises we are making to each other to meet specific needs and avoid specific love busters. Plus there's accountability.


Best to you, too, Armymama. Adultery sucks. I wish it was against the law.

51CD30,

Again, all normal. I did the very same things, to include not liking anything about other people's weddings (why would they want to get married anyway?), to tossing nightgowns and lingerie, to telling H I did not want to renew vows.

There was a thread on this forum dealing with triggers and BS management of memories. It was a pretty good one. I will look for it and give it a bump.

We are planning our 29th anniversary for the end of the month. We are taking a weekend trip, attending a jazz festival and a dinner cruise on the Saint Lawrence River. I think it is good to have these small get-aways. Our 25th anniversary stunk. H was at a military school, went out to a bar alone, and did not answer my phone calls. He was at the beginning of the emotional part of the A.

If you like classical tenors, try Alessandro Saffina, Mario Frangoulis and Vittorio. None of them sing many songs in English.

AM

Oh yes to the music triggers!! I tend to put on music without words, some of the dance stuff can be good too as you get a rhythm going KWIM!!

Sometimes a track does trigger me, I have to just close my ears for a while.

Your timeline is similar to mine, yes I know the rollercoaster all too well and there are still days when I could walk away, then he asks if he can do something, brings me a cup of tea unasked, kisses me on the way to another room, and I realise that although he is rubbish at talking about recover his actions are louder than his words.

He is still a plonker for what he did for so long, but........these days it feels more like he is my plonker!

I agree, it should be against the law. Why isn't it?

Little update...fewer adultery-related AO's these days, especially since we started the MB Online course.

FWW has continued his "program" of extraordinary care toward our marriage and to me. It's rather amazing to me that he has it in him to be so consistently loving, even when I've pushed him away due to my own anger or sadness. He has held me when I've sobbed and over and over comforted me with not just words, but actions.

We've been practicing POJA in the small things so we are prepared better for the larger things. Seems like baby steps at times, but at least we're moving forward. I still get very sad sometimes. Even though we had a nice weekend, I spontaneously started to weep while washing dishes after yesterday's breakfast; I was suddenly just SO sad about the adultery and resulting loss.

Last week, we suffered through a really bad few days, while I rehashed all over again whether I even want to stay in this marriage. Ugh. There are times when it seems like it would be so much better if I just never saw him again, but after this hard time was over, we agreed that we would continue to "work the plan." We must give ourselves time.

We went over our EN questionnaires and he had moved Affection up to his top five. That surprised me and I asked him about it. He said little signs of affection would show him I don't hate him. So I tried to do things like touching his leg, reaching out to hold his hand, that kind of thing. On our hike this Sunday, he stopped for a bit to think and finally said that I was doing the affection just great and he was very happy. What he truly wanted was for me to be able to look into his eyes and tell him that I love him. The one thing I can't do right now, and he knows it. But what surprised me was that his very saying this, his openness and honesty about his deepest desire for affection of that sort, deposited love units. He was humble, especially knowing I haven't been able to say I love him for months now.

What are AO's? Thanks for the helpful words of wisdom on my post. It helps to know that I have people out there that are experiencing the same mood swings, thoughts, and feelings and that there is hope that I can heal and still be married to the same person. By the way, Azores is a small place, I've been there. You need a good hobby or you're going to go stir crazy!

AO is shorthand for Angry Outburst. Check "Notable Posts," where you will find a list of the shorthand on this site. I would link it in, but I don't know how to do that.

The roller coaster is a sad truth for betrayed spouses. This forum has been very helpful for me; can't imagine getting through this without it. The vets and others give me hope that the roller coaster will one day slow down and maybe even stop. They give me hope that I will one day feel "normal." Maybe I will be able to tell my H that I love him.

Yes, this island is very small, but thankfully H's work schedule is amazingly pleasant, which leaves us lots of time for Undivided Attention, meeting emotional needs, and working on MB homework. We love to hike and have done all the marked hikes here, as well as several unmarked trails; we plan to visit the other islands and hike those trails, too. We have great Internet access, which helps keep us in touch with family and friends back home.

As horrible as adultery is, we can be thankful our spouses are remorseful and want to create a better marriage. When I feel really down, I have to remind myself that it could have been much worse. My H might have continued to be wayward, and our marriage could have been over.

Good luck with your recovery. I wish you and your wife well. It sounds like she has seen the reality and wants her marriage back. If we had discovered and followed MB years ago, this adultery would never have happened. We would have known how to avoid it. Your wife made a terrible mistake, but with MB principles well in hand, not only will it never happen again, but your marriage will be wonderful.

I have a question about the Extraordinary Precautions:

My H willingly agreed to all of below.

1.) No contact ever again with Affair Partner
2.) Total Transparency with spouse:
a. Email passwords shared
b. Accounting for all time and money
c. Eliminate all social networking sites, except for shared FB account
3.) No communicating with a female in any other way than the necessary professional manner needed for work
4.) No intimate conversations with a female (no conversations about anything personal, such as likes, dislikes, marriage, music, etc)
5.) No flirting, no inappropriate conversations or jesting. No �boobs or butts� comments ever.
6.) No porn, no �adult� clubs or shops, no chat rooms
7.) No nights apart. I will find a way to include spouse.
8.) No recreational activities with the opposite sex.
9.) No interactive online games.
10.) No business mentoring with a woman.

He seems to have a habit of rather flirtatious charm. I have had to speak with him a couple of times about inappropriate joking around with women. Just today, I checked his email. One of his emails is to the HRM here and he calls her "My Flower." Geez! What the h*** does it take to get a FWH to pay attention and actually PRACTICE the EPs?

So other than the periodic questioning and an apology, what else can I possibly have up my sleeve when he does not strictly adhere to the EPs. Do I leave for a week or so to really let him know it's bothering me tremendously? Do I just keep pointing it out?

Other than that and what I think is some PTSD, I think we've been doing pretty well. I did wake up this morning very early from stressful thoughts of the affair. I hate that. This has really been a terrible 12 months for me, what with moving away from my life and to a remote island and discovering the adultery. Traumatic.

I empathize with your situation, 5. I have felt many of the same emotions you describe in your post. Like you, I sacrificed a great deal to follow my husband and have lived HIS life for the past 30 years only to be betrayed more than once.

Like you, some days I just want my own life. Like you, I startle awake in the middle of the night with anxiety (although Xanax helps, lol). Like you, I fear that I will be betrayed again. But I love my husband, and I continue to work on the marriage.

Some days I get angry with myself for not giving up and going it alone. I know I would be fine financially and emotionally and fantasize about how fulfilling my life could be. I've loved my husband for nearly 40 years, and, frankly, I would miss having him in my life.

It's particularly difficult to end a marriage as long as yours. Take your time, and make sure that whatever decision you make is right for YOU. While you're trying to recover, some days will be good and some will be bad. It's not a straight line progression from point A to point B. While Dr. Harley says that it takes two years to recover from an affair, many on this forum will tell you that, for them, it has taken even longer.

I'm sorry that you feel isolated where you are now, but know that you have friends here.

Getting close to the first anniversary will probably feel awful.
It does get better.
I promise.

It sounds like he has very inappropriate boundaries in the workplace and I would insist that he get out the habit of flirting ASAP. I would not let up until he stops and keep in mind, EPs are not negotiable. Do you have a key logger on his work computer?

Thank you all so much. It helps so much to know I can post here and everyone truly understands.

I don't have a keylogger on his work computer, but I have his work email password and can remotely access it from home..which I do a few times throughout the day. Probably sounds compulsive, but I figure he would get sloppy at some point, and I'd have to be quick to catch it. I check inbox, sent, deleted, junk. Once I even checked his outlook rules and found his old rule set up for emails from OW and the few people related to that situation that sent all those emails to a particular folder in his inbox. H removed that rule right away.

I forced myself to think rationally before H came home yesterday from work. Since NC day, H has been consistent in meeting my ENs and avoiding LBs; he has followed all the EPs except the one about women in the workplace, which has become a bad habit with him. H defended the practice at first, saying he wanted things friendly at work, but he backed off that stance and appeared to agree with me that that level of familiarity is not needed for people to "feel comfortable" in the workplace. I told him that many professionals would feel odd or even offended at being called "My Flower" or any other term of endearment. Other people might well take it the wrong way and think it means more than it possibly does.

It doesn't matter anyway--the practice simply isn't acceptable to me. If he can't or won't change, then I can't live with him anymore. I've been through too much. He was trying to be careful in his response and not come across as upset in any way. Instead he came across as withdrawn, and I suddenly became very weepy, as though there was no hope for us. Sigh. I mean I burst into a full-fledged crying melt-down. (Not usual in my pre-A life.)

H just sat and held me in his arms and stroked my hair and kept saying "don't cry; you're safe," over and over. He started to choke up a few times himself. Finally I felt calmer.

H got up to recall the email and rewrite it, promising he would pay much closer attention to his boundaries with women.

Yes, I am dreading this time of year with all the anti-versaries. It was hard moving into August, because that's when the full-fledged PA started.

I feel a very different person inside than the one I was before. I was always considered to be strong and resilient and adventurous, but I think I have hit my limit.

My posts are always longish...sorry about that.

And....thanks again for your time and thoughts. I have truly appreciated it.

You ARE strong and resilient; otherwise you wouldn't still be there trying to recover your marriage. It takes a whole lotta strength to rebuild a marriage.

"Making work fun. . ." yeah, that's the line my WH used too. In my WH's case he was hula hooping with his female subordinate. . . inside the same hula hoop.

You're going to have to be very vigilant about boundaries, until your H really gets what's appropriate and what's not.

Good that he revised the e-mail and comforted you when he saw how upset you were.

51, you are right, that is extremely unprofessional.........and creepy. My H did this exact same thing and when he didn't stop, I told him I would pass on the marriage and he could leave. I have no desire to be married to a workplace weasel who flirts with women at work. Most women look at men like that and go "ewwwwwwwwwwwww what a creepo." It is not funny or attractive at all. They are creeps and an embarrassment to their wives. I won't be married to a man who embarrasses me in public.

What drove it home for my H was when I asked him if it was ok for my male co-workers to call me "babe" and "hon?" He went white as a sheet when I said that. I still check his computer from time to time and have confirmed he has truly changed. I would not tolerate anything less. I have no desire to be married to a weasel.