My previous thread was locked.
Just trying to get thoughts out and if anyone has anything to share.
I have been following all my EP's. I removed anyone that was a threat from my phonebook and facebook. Every weekend, I let him know of my plans in written form unless he happens to ask me before I send it to him. If he asks any questions like where and who I've been with, times etc, I give him all the details. I usually tell him about my day/night before he asks. But sometimes he wants more details so I tell him. I've only been going out with my girlfriends or having them over when husband is out.
I have been keeping the house cleaner and helping with his schoolwork. Giving more attention to the cat as it was listed in his family needs way back when.
I've also tried to word my thoughts better towards him. The other day he got mad at me and he told me that I think I can do or say whatever I want but he is careful how he words things to not upset me. (obviously lovebusted there...I thought he was mad at me but he wasn't and I kept pushing the topic so then he actually got mad....my fault)
Other than that we've been spending 5-6 nights together. Good conversations, doing things together, SF. He still has nights out but he tells me about them as well. Nothing I can change in terms of that at the moment. Just lucky that he is still around and shows some signs of care and hasn't filed.

I haven't read your other thread but I take it you are the WW?

Both of you need to stop going out without the other, especially if you're early into recovery.

As a WW, you have no business having a FB page. Another alternative is for you to share a FB page.

I see lots of IB (independent behaviors) in this one short post. The road to recovery is very specific!


Here

P.S. I've got to get to work, but please continue to post and seek help. You're still very "foggy" (read more to figure out what this means). Good luck!

Not much a recovery here unfortunately, he still wants a divorce next year and I am trying to do what I can to show him that I worthy of being his wife. However, any advice is greatly appreciated as I am trying to show him I can be the wife he wants and will not shoot him in the heart again.

On the bright side, at least I think I've learned some things about myself, marriage and discovered MB (not the way I would have wanted to do it but trying to look at the positive). If my BH allows me the chance I can try to be the best that I can possibly can.

The nights out are something I cannot change on his end. He wants a night out:S, bringing it up just ends up being a LB because he gets angry that I am trying to control him and this relationship. I have stopped my nights out for the most part as he refused to put any EP's in place and even comment on the EP's. But said if he did he would want me to stop going out (due to a comment from a friend which I passed on). So I have been inviting my gf's over to my house when he is out as much as possible but sometimes we do go out and get food and such.

Any decisions I have been making I have tried to POJA it with him if possible. Other decisions where he will not take part in the decision process, I try my best to consider his feelings and not be the cause of his unhappiness (but like I said the other day I upset him and it was my fault for not listening).

I've also spoken to Harley once and won't be able to afford another session until after our vacation back home. We live overseas right now. So we have no real family or friend support.

I have the SAA and His Needs/Her Needs. I have read all of the site stuff. Unfortunately, implementing some things are difficult (Well as a couple ...cause he won't acknowledge us in such a way...not in words).

I just feel stuck sometimes but I don't want to/and have no right to pressure/make my husband conform to MB practices when he doesn't want to. Although, because of what I have done I have realized he had/has considered my feelings more than I did pre and post affair (obviously as I had the affair and broke him and still don't listen to him 100% but he still listens to me fully). I am trying to work on my listening skills, and attention skills (not sure how I made it through my jobs and school, maybe if I put the same focus I have to those things). I have just told him about the site and summarized the basic concepts when he was willing to listen to them in the winter.]

Oh and for eliminating the conditions, I don't spend one on one time with males. I don't have conversations about my marriage with men, no lunch, dinners, drinks, text msg, etc. BH can look at my FB, email, or phone at any time he wants. I also don't drink shots of liquor anymore. I tell him all the details of any time apart we have.

For the being stuck part, sometimes we sit so close together I feel like I should snuggle up to him and cuddle but I know he's never been a cuddler so I don't...makes me feel stuck and crappy (crappy because I ruined the marriage). But on the other hand I do have the power to rebuild things as much as he is willing to let me in.

I wanted to update. Things have been going better than expected. I think he still wants a divorce but our relationship is changing. We had a discussion last week. He has changed from freeloader to renter, which is better than nothing. Crossing my fingers that we'll both be in buyer mode in the future.

I think the biggest thing was the trickle truth he got over a few weeks and three times of him asking me he wanted to know everything. We did agree the first time he asked me he was unclear as he had bombarded me a lot of questions and that it was confusing. But he still counts it as three strikes your out.
As well, I recently read Hopeful_person's old post, so as she said until he remarries, it's not over. I'm not even divorced yet, papers not filed, we still share a bed, etc. So every day at a time.

In addition, I sent an email to two of his siblings to apologize for my behavior in the past when my husband and I moved in with them. I was quite unpleasant and difficult to live with because things were not going my way. (We moved from our home country to another country). So I am taking steps to take responsibility for the things I have done in all areas of my life. (side note: I do get along with all his siblings despite my selfish and poor behavior to a couple of them in the past).

So Plan A is still going on and here's to hoping to a good outcome:)

hey WW26 - you still sound very optimistic & that's great!

Funny you mentioned hopeful_person's thread - I spent some time yesterday (at work - shhh!!!) reading her thread as well as a few others (Jen_Brown and Lisa in London) that were in similar situations (FWW wanting reconciliation). H_P's thread made me tear up several times. She was amazingly strong and perseverant. I'd love to hear how things are going for her and her H now. I hope that both of us have a happy ending like hers as well!

Keep strong - I've been thinking about you!

Thank you WPG. I too, hope that we both get some sort of happily ever after.

Those old posts gave me some hope and made me sad. It made me stronger in my resolve to continue plan A for the next year and for as long as I am given a chance.

I have been reading your posts as well. I am sorry to hear that your husband has not been receptive. But continue what you are doing, you never know what will happen:) Take care of yourself, daughters and home. Have a good weekend!

WW26,

Time and patience are the key words. Give yourself and your H time and have patience with him and with yourself. He may well change his mind as you have and continue to change your perspective on things and how you react to life.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you JL.

I have a few questions. The other night I brought up where things were going as he was talking about future plans. I asked him a couple of questions before he just ignored me and refused to answer them or acknowledge I was even talking to him. Should I not bring up the topic then?

Oh and these were the questions:
What are your plans with regards to this marriage?
Do you feel there has been any change?
Would you answer my questions in the future?

I told him I would appreciate an answer of any sort as I did not feel great about being ignored or at least acknowledge verbally that I was talking to him. That I wasn't going to push him to answer these questions today but wanted to know that he would respond when I talked to him. And that maybe we could talk about it another time. I talked to him calmly like I normally do when we just chat.
He just got angry and left the room. I followed him where he had an angry outburst, told me to leave him alone and pressed me with my back into the wall (never did that pre-affair). In the end, things settled down. He calmed down but I was crying because I was upset over the outburst and at myself. The worst part is he blamed me for it and said that I should have left him alone. Although he's most likely right.

I am still trying my best to plan A. But when he has an angry outbursts I am sure that withdraws from both our LB. As well, maybe I should have dropped the topic. But I did not like being ignored. I probably deserve a 2x4 right now... Any advice?

I figured stick to improving me, being happy, taking care of myself, my pet and the home. Staying calm and patience. But I've been feeling down and low on energy since the AO.

WW,

Let's look at those questions for a moment shall we. You asked You are pushing him here and it would appear he does not really want to answer. My guess is that he is uncertain. Part of him wants to leave and part wants to stay. He doesn't know if he can forgive you or face his failings. He like most BS's feel that their spouse having an affair is direct testimony that they, the BS are failures. Such a sense of failure is hard to face, and as is making the decisions about divorce. Your question could easily come across as "do it or get off of the pot." Ultimatums will be met with anger and hostility, that is why we tell BS and WS alike to avoid them. This question felt a bit like that. What do you really want to know? Do you have some decisions to make soon that depend on his answers. The apprise him of your upcoming decisions and the information you need from him.
Again, you are fishing for compliments and he isn't read for that based on his reactions. What do you really want to know with this question.
This sounds like just a bitchy question, asked out of anger. Whether it was or not, it even sounds like it to me, and frankly I am not mad at you, or disappointed in you and certainly not hurt by you.

YOu do know you made a huge mistake by following him and trying to push this further. Right? Don't do that. Stop for a moment and ask youself, how do I handle things so that they are done GRACEFULLY? When you can figure out how to be graceful, then do it that way.

HOpe this helps.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL for the insight. I have started journaling so I can reflect on things.

I never looked at things from that perspective like I was giving an ultimatum and such (not what I was trying to get across to him). I guess I was hoping for answers I knew I wouldn't get.

Going to try and stay rational the best I can and take a few moments before I do anything in situations.

WW26, I went back and read most of your old thread and all of this one.

I am very concerned for you. Here's what I've gleaned from my reading. If I'm mistaken on anything please let me know.

You dated/lived with your husband for 4 years and have been married for 3. You are currently living in a country that is not your home country teaching English as a second language and your BH works part-time in some capacity at a school there. You are the primary breadwinner. Your BH was a trouble-maker in school and dropped out before completing high school. You know of at least once instance where he was caught dealing drugs, but as far as you know he is not currently involved in any criminal activity. He is working on an online degree.

Two winters ago he told you that you should have slept with your neighbor and later told you that he wanted a "get out of marriage free card."

Several months ago your husband suggested that the two of you should have an "open" marriage because you have a higher sex drive then he does. Shortly thereafter you had a one-night stand/week-long affair (I couldn't figure out how long it lasted) with OM who was at the time a mutual friend.

Husband asked if you were having an affair and you told him the truth. Your husband was devastated and told you so. You immediately cut off all contact with OM.

In the intervening months your BH has insisted on getting lots of "alone time" that he usually spends in the company of other people. Sometimes that alone time has been once a week in the company of one or more men. At others times it has been as often as 3 times a week with both other men and other women.

Your BH keeps saying that he's probably going to divorce you and he calls you his ex-wife or soon to be ex-wife in front of other people.

Your BH has asked you to do physical harm to the OM, but you refused. Your BH has told you of a plan to do violence against the OM but has said that he is unable due to a problem in getting "supplies." You have found a piece of paper where your BH has a written plan to harm the OM including a plan to gain access to the OM's home.

Honey, there are thousands of all over this mess. This guy ENCOURAGED you to have an affair. That usually means that he is having his own affair. You have seen written proof that he is planning a criminal act. He has committed crimes in the past.

If I were in your shoes, I'd run as far and as fast as I could to get away from this man. And I'd be forever grateful that there are no children involved.

If you decide to divorce him, you need to make your plans very carefully and go to a very very dark Plan B. He will try to harm you too when he figures out that his meal ticket is going to cut him off.

Hi Kirby,

Yes you have the facts straight. But people do change and he is no longer a trouble maker for the most part. I had an affair that I am not proud of and he has done things in the past that were not right. But people can choose to change to have a better life. That is what is keeping me going in terms of my own improvements and sticking to Plan A the best I can for the next 12 months or more.

In addition, it is not I that wants to divorce him, he is the one who requested this January so there is no fear of harm coming to me. He is the one asking for it while I am the one wanting to reconcile and make this work. In fact, he wants the divorce next spring when my contract is up in this foreign country.

He is not having an affair to my knowledge or anyone else's. In addition, we have certain agreements while we are living together and still married on paper. He spends a lot of time with me and at home 5-6 nights a week.

Despite his past and the whole mess in which I created. I do love him. We have had good and bad times together. I am at this point trying to do my best to show my commitment and that I will be a buyer to this marriage and hope that he can overcome his personal issues and the affair. If he doesn't, there isn't much I can do. As well, I don't think he is doing anything that would hurt me at this point in time.

He is just a very closed off person and will not discuss his thoughts and emotions with anyone. I am hoping I can reach out to him.

I have verified he is not having an affair.

Right now I am just doing what I can. I am trying to take care of myself, work on self improvements, saving money and planning for the future. I will probably have 1-2 more sessions with Harley to discuss things.

Rationally, I realize that he has problems that I cannot fix. In addition, to the downs in our relationships since it began (We of course had good times as well). I am not blaming him for what I did but after reading the Freeloader, Renter and Buyer thread, I realized he has always been a renter and I was the same. That is not what I want as when things got tough before the affair, he contemplated giving up and not dealing with things.

So in the meantime, I hope that he will become a buyer and come out of his dark place (As well as working on improving myself in the long run and gaining valuable knowledge from this and MB). I will not settle for less in recovering the marriage as much as I don't want to let him go. But if things don't change by next year, the papers will be filed and signed.

I am being as patient as possible. If he doesn't change his stance and such, there is no hope for the marriage. I can attempt to give some life to the marriage, but I can't hold it up on my own (nor do I want to).

So since I've last posted, things have been going okay. We haven't been doing as much recreational stuff or having conversations, falling way short of the 15 hours lately. Although we've both been quite sick and recovering from physical injuries from separate accidents we've had. Any conversations we do have is pleasant and there has been no fighting.

I have been reading a new book called Bonds That Make Us Free. It has been a real eye opener (well what I have read so far). I see that through our relationship, that I had created problems in order to prove my distorted reality. I am learning a lot about my past behavior and I am trying to change the person that I am inside and out. Working at it one day at a time:)

I also have been trying not to read too much into things. I am excited as we are taking a trip back home to see family together. So we'll see how that goes. It won't be much UA but it is a trip we're both looking forward to and he's willing to spend time with me and other people together.

In addition, thinking back to all the things that have happened. It did not matter that BH said it was okay. I betrayed him, my marriage vows and myself by having sex with someone outside of the marriage. Another thing is, even if BH did not say anything. With my poor boundaries I setting myself up for trouble (for a while I was using the excuse he gave me permission, but who would want to be married to someone who thought it was okay for their spouse to have sex outside of the marriage and I had poor boundaries and communication with my husband). Reading the boards and my experience, it's easy for someone to fill your LB before you realize it has stepped over the friend line.
I just cannot believe it took a mess to make me realize what a marriage should be, how to protect a marriage, my spouse and myself.

**edit** From what I read up here, you might be interested in this thread.

God bless you, Happyheart

*edit

So it is 8 months post D-day. We went on a vacation for a few weeks to visit friends and family. Got to spend plenty of time together.
In the past 4 months I have been working hard on personal recovery. I read a book on self-deception which helped quite a bit. It is allowing me to do Plan A without less of the taker side coming out. I started the Love Dare as well.
But I am finding it a bit hard to cope at this moment over what I did, the destruction it has left and what I may/already have lost.
It has been hard as when we went to visit his family, which I exposed myself to early on after D-day. They are very supportive of us and want to see us make it work. They treat me like a sister.
Right now BH has said he may give the online program a try but not the coaching. So this week I think we may sign up for it.

I have a list of EP's that he has and that I have been following.

UA time consists of doing jigsaw puzzles, logic puzzles, talking about random topics, daily stuff, watching shows and discussing them, playing and cuddling the pet, short scooter rides, watching movies, eating together, showering together, SF.

We talked and he does care but not enough to put in a whole lot of effort. He does not really want a divorce but believes it is not fair if he is not willing to put in all his effort and energy into recovery. So we'll see how the online program works out if we sign up for it.

hey WW26 - good to hear from you and good to hear some positives things going on. I've not done the online program but I think there are many on the boards who have and can give great FB on it. I bought the HNHN home study course hoping to do that on our own, but we never did. I think the online program is good to keep couples focused on the course and the assignments, and give some accountability, so that may be helpful to give a little encouragement to your BH, and maybe as he sees your enthusiastic participation he'll gradually become more encouraged!


I wish I had some helpful advice on how to deal with that. It's something I struggle with every single day, but my sitch is a lot different from yours. And truthfully, even if your M is recovered, there is much you have lost...but I still have faith in MB and believe that if your M is recovered, you can have a M that surpasses all that you had together in the past!

At this point, since your H is still with you and still willing, focus on him. If you are doing the Love Dare, that will help you with that - even though I found a lot of what the Love Dare is all about is changing you and your attitude towards loving your spouse, it keeps you more focused on the here and now rather than the past. Do a stellar job of meeting his needs and - here's the biggie - let go of your expectations. I tried, but I could never quite let go of mine, and that was a huge obstacle in our failed R.

I think - and this is only my opinion, not scientific fact - that maybe when R is a success and both spouses are meeting each other's needs, maybe we begin to think less and less about what we, the FWS, did in the past, and more about what we can DO for the future. I don't know...I'm not there yet, and for me, somehow I have to get there on my own...but I think if you can be successful at letting go of your expectations, if you can continue to be understanding and patient when your needs are not met, that gradually you and your BH will be able to get there together.

Hi WPG,

Thanks for your post.

Tonight I will broach the subject and hopefully he will be willing to give it a go. If so, I am going to go ahead tonight and order it. This course is expensive but I am going to cut back on my spending to pay for it.

I do not know if he is willing but I guess I am lucky in the sense he is still around me most days and we hang out together most of the time minus 1 or 2 nights that he decides to go out.

I am focusing on him and trying to meet his needs and be affectionate towards him without making him uncomfortable. Right now I am still in love with him but not the other way around so I am trying to make deposits the best I can. Like he said he still cares and does not want to get hurt even more but just does not feel like trying much (I gave him a reason to feel this way). Not really a natural instinct to give it your best to a relationship/person that hurt you deeply.

I hope your situation gets better one way or another. Keeping you in my thoughts as well.