I'm similar that way, so I'll be interested to read people's advice to you about it.

Don't respond immediately to her requests. Give yourself a few minutes to process it, to actually weigh it. If you can't give her an answer right away ask if it is ok if you think about it for a little while.

Now, let her know you are going to start doing this in advance so she doesn't feel like you are blowing her off. Sit down and let her know that you want to be able to learn to POJA and in order to do that you have to be able to ensure that you are enthusiastic about things. This will involve taking time to asses how you really feel, which you are out of the habit of doing. You've become used to subsuming your desires and wishes for hers so much so that you're not even sure what you like and don't like.

Now, it is ok if sometimes you go with it and say yes. For example, we struggled early on implementing POJA for eating out because I refused to go to a place unless my H was enthusiastic about it... turns out he wasn't enthusiastic about any place in particular so we'd get frustrated trying to find a place he was enthusiastic about. He always just said yes to whatever I picked before. Turns out he WAS enthusiastic about going out to dinner with me. The dinner and time with me were key for him, the particular location didn't matter at all.

So if you're saying yes a lot and can't seem to figure out why your resentment isn't building, it is likely that while you may not enjoy the specific thing you are doing, you ARE enthusiastic about meeting your wife's needs or requests, and that is ok.

The best guide in these things is to measure and gague your own resentment. This is why I say take a moment before responding to a request from your wife. Take a moment to check in with your Taker and see how he feels.

Maybe you say yes to your wife, and you notice yourself getting irritated about something, take a moment to check in with your Taker to see what it is that is bothering you. Then let your wife know you aren't enthusiastic about what you are doing anymore, let her know why and ask to try to do something else instead.

You are used to shutting your Taker up. Give him time to speak, when he does surface, acknowledge what he is wanting and express that to your wife so you can both address it.



The nice thing about understanding ENs is that once they are established and a plan is laid out for meeting them you don't have to constantly ask, there is a plan in place to address them. This is because your needs become met by habit. Then, you only have to check in occasionally or ask for something specific you may need.

For example, my husband needs affection. I know what kind of affection he likes so I have made it a point to cultivate the habit of doing these acts of affection he likes every day. At this point they have become second nature. I like affection a different way which DH has worked to develop the habit of meeting. A while back I noticed I was feeling a bit frustrated with him and realized it was because he had slipped a bit in meeting this particular need, so I simply mentioned I'd missed his little gifts and notes and I'd like to see more - because he understands the importance of needs he stepped it up and we're back on track.

Now you have to stop seeing yourself as an inconvenience. Your needs are important. Shutting up your Taker is the path to fueling your resentment and eroding your marriage.

DH had a hard time with this as well. He hated asking for things, he felt like he was just making trouble and inconveniencing me. It was tough, but once he realized how much his not asking for what he wanted was hurting our marriage, he started speaking up. His not asking for the needs he wanted met was depriving me of a vital opportunity to love and care for him, he was robbing me of the chance to love him.

That is what you are doing when you don't ask for what you need from your wife. You are robbing her of the chance to build intimacy and show love to you. She has committed to love and care for you - if she doesn't know what it is she has to do in order to do that she cannot do it.

The hardest for DH was learning to ask for sex. I have a lower sex drive than him but 99.999% of the time I'm more than willing to jump in the sack if he arches an eyebrow, he just has to ASK. It took a while before he became comfortable with asking.

A key factor, and this is something for your wife to do, is your wife needs to be open and willing to consider meeting those needs you want in a loving and positive way. I found the more positive I was about having sex when DH asked, the more likely he was to ask next time he wanted some.

However you can make this easier on her by making sure you phrase your requests thoughtfully as opposed to relying on Love Busters to get what you need.

Ok my thoughts seem to be all over the map but I hope some of this helps.

Hilltopper, be aware that if you are saying "no" to something that is an emotional need for your wife, you will be missing an important opportunity to deposit love units.

The best thing to do in such a case is to find a way in which you can be enthusiastic about meeting the need. The classic example given here has the genders reversed: a typical man has an emotional need for sexual fulfillment while many women don't want to fulfill their husband's need. In such a situation, they have to work together to find a way in which she will be enthusiastic about meeting her need.

If at all possible, don't just say "no," say "I have a problem with that, but I want to find an alternative that will make us both happy."

The most important thing you can do right now is to focus on making massive love bank deposits every day (and not making any withdrawals, of course).

Also, make sure your "no," if you have to say one, is "no, I don't want to do that," and not "no, I want to do this, and we agreed to do this, and we're doing it anyway." Review the POJA: never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse. If you are planning to do something and discover your wife is reluctant, don't do it!

My wife and I had a long meaningful talk on the way home from our trip. It was rocky and I misbehaved multiple times which I've since apologized for. Moving forward I think we both discovered that the number one way for me to not read into things and use SD's to get my needs me is to get much, much better at telling my wife what I want. For example we went to two wineries on the way home, had fun, then she began looking out the window in silence. Based on past experience I just assumed she was uncomfortable talking with me or giving me the silent treatment. So I figured to remain silent myself and give her some time. Instead she began digging on why I was "stewing" which led to multiple DJ's back and forth, my wife saying some things that really tore my heart out, followed by more silence, then amazingly an awesome effort from my wife to diffuse the situation and tell me that she doesn't know what I want. She wants honesty all the time. She wants me to do the following which seem to be a good plan to me:

1. Always ask her if I don't understand what she just said or means. Do this to make sure I don't read into what she does or doesn't mean.

2. Always tell her what I want. Whether it is SF, affection, to hold my hand, to go out to dinner, you name it, I need to ask it.

Communication right now in our lives horrific. I never know what she wants or where I stand and it is the same thing for her. This will improve dramatically. Asking for things doesn't come naturally for me but I know it needs to be done now if we want to save our marriage. This starts today. I will likely need some help with this task which might sound easy to most of you but is really, really hard for me.

I wanted to be clear about moving forward. When my wife asked to ask her for things I need, she put her hands on my hand and looked me in the eyes. She repeated it again and again. It made me feel good that "everything is ok" and I needed that. It made me know I can ask my wife anything. She does love me but us incredibly frustrated with me. Tonight really nice wine together after kids go down.

Not wanting to say "yes" to every request of my wife I think is more about wanting to settle the score. For some reason over time I started the habit of not asking my wife for anything including meeting my needs. It makes no sense really and I guess there is no point of getting Freudian about it. I let her know that when I do ask for things on a rare occasion that it she has a habit of not outright saying "no", but instead pushes them off for another day. I frequently get the answer of "maybe tomorrow night", or "not right now because I'm too tired." The example I gave to her was about massages. We bought massage oil enthusiastically together a few months ago. We gave each other one massage(no sex just massage)and it was an amazing experience. I've asked her 4-5 times since then and always get the brush off. Being a "reader into things" type of person I just take that as a reason to never ask again. She doesn't say no to everything, but she makes me feel discouraged quite frequently.
Last night we were doing good and had a slight bump in the road when it came time to figure out what dinner to order for her folks for mother's day. Basically it had to do with me not knowing what my wife wanted and my wife not knowing what she wanted too. To my wife not having a disappointing meal is a big deal to her and I know this. I told her the reason I was not inclined to order the food for us is because of the backlash of getting something she didn't like or wasn't satisfied with. Its not that I wasn't willing to take charge and do this for her, it is more that she is very hard to please in this area. She has no problem telling me if I cook something for her that she doesn't like. I guess what I'm saying is that from my perspective my wife is hard to please and I've grown accustomed to being fearful of "screwing up". She was tired, wanted me to take charge of something for us, and I really didn't want to do it because of the frequency of being criticized. Tough call here for me, her EN from me was having me take initiative about our RA without having to be asked, yet on my end I wanted to avoid what has become a common result of criticism. How might Dr Harley suggest I handle those scenarios?

Don't let her criticism of you become a reason for you to not try to meet her emotional needs. If you have tried in the past and been criticized, incorporate the criticism into your plans for trying again in the future. Don't give up. Meeting your wife's emotional needs is a complicated habit that you will be able to make improvement on all your life.

Her criticism is a disrespectful judgment, and it's a problem that you want her to solve in order to make your marriage better. Dr. Harley has worksheets for that. Try again to meet her emotional needs, and if you get criticized, communicate it to her through the worksheet and CONTINUE to try to meet her emotional needs.

Just a couple of posts back you mentioned that you caught yourself "behaving badly." You didn't give us a lot of details, but I surmise there were selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and/or angry outbursts involved. I am certain that it caused pain to your wife and probably made her feel like giving up. Do you want your wife to stop trying to meet your emotional needs as a result, or do you want her to keep trying to meet your emotional needs and be patient with you while you learn to eliminate SDs, DJs, and AOs? If you want her to be patient with you and continue trying to meet your emotional needs, then I suggest you also be patient with her and continue to try to meet hers.

You will get better, and she will have less to criticize. And she will learn to eliminate criticism and communicate with respectful complaints, instead.

Cut it out. Keeping score will get you no where you want to go.

There were all three of those and yes I caused pain to my wife and postponed the healing and meeting of EN's. The difference is that I learned from our last question to always ask my wife what she means or how she is feeling rather than just guessing, making assumptions based on the situation, and coming to my own conclusions. This is what I've done since the beginning of my journey with MB and always gets me in to trouble. I learned it is ok to ask my wife if she is irritated at me without offending her. She can answer me "no" or "yes because of this" and we can go about our day. Prior to this revelation I would not ask her, assume she was irritated at me, try and figure out why she was irritated, realize there was nothing to be irritated about, realize that I didn't do anything to make her irritated, then get mad because she was irritated at me for no reason, then lash out with a DJ or SD to retaliate, when in reality there was nothing of the sort taking place.

I also learned to ask for things from her. This morning before I left I said, "I love big hugs in the morning before I leave for work." Know what she did? She gave me a big hug and a kiss.

You cut it out! Just kidding, I was explaining why I think I tried to justify my desire to want to say no. I DID cut it out after I realized there is no justification in doing so and will never do it again unless the request is a SD.

How do you typically ask for things? Can you relate a typical scenario?

I did. Ask Markos how happy he is now


You can and should say no, btw, even if she makes a request instead of a demand, but you are not enthusiastic about the request. Don't let your Giver take over and drain your own love bank by letting her gain at your expense. The goal is to find a solution that makes BOTH of you happy.

Your Giver will destroy your marriage just as much as your Taker will.

Still listening to the radio program? Friday had a great segment about the difference between complaints and criticism that you might want to hear.

Hi Hilltopper,

I've been reading your thread and have noticed a few consistent "themes" in your postings (and please take my observations as constructive criticism):

1. **edit** behavior and accept the fact that any AO's, DJ's, etc are completely unacceptable and inexcusable, you will continue to be a jerk. Even if you apologize afterward, your apologies mean nothing if you continue to act the same way without making changes. You have a lot of growing to do in this area and it is going to take a lot of awareness and effort in the beginning. You've gotten some great advice on how to curb your behavior. Soak it in, read it over and over, analyze your behavior in a journal, whatever you have to do to fully embrace new habits, DO IT.

2. You are HORRIBLY impatient. You have spent YEARS damaging your marriage. It is going to take time to recover from said damage. Think of it this way: You eat poorly from Halloween until New Years because of the holidays and gain 20 pounds. Are you going to lose 20 pounds in 3 days just because you go to the gym for an hour or two or is this going to take a few months to work off? Your wife is hurt and scared and you continue with bad behaviors when you start feeling as though she's not working hard enough. Again, plenty of people have told you to work on your own side of the street. They don't mean anything else by it other than fix YOURSELF. I'm not saying your wife had no part in the damage that was done, but at this point it's irrelevant. She's on board with MB, she knows what to do, she's learning to use the tools, so knock it off! No more score keeping, no more expectations of ANY kind, just do what you're supposed to be doing. Also, you have no say in how long it takes for your wife to feel safe enough to be affectionate with you in a way that "comes naturally" so STOP with the fights already. You can't go more than a few days until you let your ridiculous expectations take over and you love bust your wife again. When you do that, you are starting from SQUARE ONE, each and EVERY time. Do YOURSELF a favor if you want to see improvement and STOP FIGHTING!

**edit**

Bottom line is you have a lot of work to do. Just keep working away. If you REALLY TRULY want to save your marriage, keep working, stop making excuses and lose your expectations.

Hill, aBetterMe is right in that you need to do more about your abusive love busters. An apology alone isn't sufficient. You have been involved in these for years, and it's going to take your wife some time to recover from that, and of course she can't do that if they are ongoing.

Have you read the opening chapters of Dr. Harley's book Love Busters, recently? There's a conversation in there that frightens me in which a man has it out with his wife and finally tells her what's bothering him. It frightens me because I identify with it so much. It sounds just like how I've treated Prisca. The scary thing is that at the end of the conversation he feels much better! His wife, on the other hand, does not. She is traumatized. She may agree to what he wants, but because he used love busters along the path to getting it, giving him what he wants results in debits in his account in her love bank, destroying their marriage.

Grace isn't here giving us her perception on the weekend, and so we have no way of knowing how she feels about it. I assure you that if she does not feel as optimistic as you do right now, then that is important information. She may feel terrible as a result of your love busters, even though you apologized!

No tolerance for SDs, DJs, and AOs in marriage means exactly what it says: NO tolerance, at all. These behaviors are like nuclear weapons. They will not give you what you want; they only set up a situation like the United States and the Soviet Union in the Cold War: mutually assured destruction. The only way to win that game is not to play it.

You guys have got to avoid fights at all costs. AT ALL COSTS. That literally means you should leave conflicts unresolved temporarily if that is what it takes for you to avoid fights. You should leave your needs unmet temporarily if that is what it takes for you to avoid fights. You can refuse to fight no matter what she does or does not do. You can refuse to use SDs, DJs, and AOs no matter what she does or does not do.

Your conversations have got to become pleasant. Conversation is almost certainly a top emotional need for one or both of you. If it is not one now, it almost certainly will move into the top once other problems are taken care of and the two of you move toward intimacy. Probably solving conversations are usually not enjoyable and don't meet the emotional need for conversation at all. Even less so when they go into love busters! As long as you engage in love busters, you will be creating a situation where you cannot meet your wife's need for intimate conversation. A better idea on your drive might have been, after your bad behavior, to DROP the subject and save it for later and engage in some ENJOYABLE conversation if your wife was willing. Conversation is just about the make-or-break EN for many women. At all costs you must avoid the enemies of conversation that Dr. Harley lists in His Needs, Her Needs.

I hope this doesn't sound too rough, but you have got to learn to hold yourself to an absolutely high standard of NO tolerance. Be on your best behavior for the woman whose heart you are trying to win. It is better for you and us here to get into a tussle and rough you up holding you to a higher standard than for your wife to feel like she's having to drag you up to that standard. But of course it's best not to have such a tussle at all.

I don't know that individual counseling and delving into childhood issues is really a positive way forward. Dr. Harley says that doing so makes the problems of the past into problems of the present. But we all already have enough problems of the present! Learn to keep a lid on your behavior in the present, and meet your wife's emotional needs, and your marriage will recover and thrive, probably in fairly short order! But until it is thriving, if you are still engaging in love busters, don't fall into the trap of looking at anything else as being the cause of the problem.

One thing that really concerns me: there's a lot of posting here about your unmet needs. What's going on right now to meet your wife's needs? I assume you are doing something ... is it what she wants? I'm not sure how your wife is, but a typical woman would like a lot of small, regular, frequent affectionate acts rather than a couple of large, big, expensive ones. The key phrase is: "environment of affection."

Yes you are correct I can say no to things that I'm not enthusiastic about, forgot to mention that. I've read about the Giver and Taker many times and I would like to understand it a bit more. Being a Giver has caused a lot of damage and resentment in my marriage. I'm confused about the difference between "not letting my Giver take over", and "still giving and meeting my wife's EN's". Do I want to be the Giver, but just check with my Taker?

The Policy of Joint Agreement is your best guide to navigating this. If you and your wife BOTH feel enthusiastic about something, then that means that it satisfies both of your Givers and both of your Takers.

Don't agree to something just to make your wife happy if it is going to make you resentful, particularly if you are going to keep score or AO about it afterward.

On the other hand, don't fall into the trap of leaving your wife's needs unmet ... look for ways that you can be enthusiastic about meeting them. You need to be making MASSIVE love bank deposits, DAILY.

The Giver and Taker are not good/bad in and of themselves. They are instincts to watch for within yourself. Your Giver will give without regard to your own welfare, and this can get you into trouble, so you should learn to watch for it. Your Taker will take without regard to your wife's welfare, and this can also get you into trouble, so you should learn to watch for it.

You should also pay attention to your wife's Giver and Taker. Her Giver may be making sacrifices to do what you ask for. Never pursue a reluctant agreement; if she is reluctant about a request, change the circumstances of what you are requesting in a way that makes her ENTHUSIASTIC about what you are requesting, or else WITHDRAW the request.

Also, her Taker is likely to give you VITAL INFORMATION. Her Taker will naturally not take your welfare into account. Do not punish her for this. Instead, use the information her Taker gives you about what she wants, and brainstorm ways to meet the needs her Taker expresses in ways that you can be enthusiastic about.

Hilltopper - I've seen this question asked many times throughout this thread. What SPECIFICALLY has your wife asked of you to meet her needs? I'm not getting the impression all the gifts you're giving her are what she wants.

One other thought - I decided to stop drinking over a month ago and this has also made big improvements in my marriage and our interactions. I love a glass of good wine, but it wasn't making me into the person I want to be. I seems as though you both enjoy a good glass on a regular basis and that drinking goes hand in hand with your UA time. Have you considered leaving alcohol alone until you guys get back on your feet?