I totally agree.

SC, you said you wanted to hear from FWW's who have walked in your shoes AND come out the other side. So here's who you listen to: someone who has actually done the walking and isn't shuffling around on the wrong side. If I am an alcoholic who wants help, I don't need to spend my time at a bar hearing about how all the other alcoholics knows how I feel. I need people around me who are ACTUALLY RECIVERING!

People like Mrs. W are on the other side. She KNOWS how to get there. THAT is who you need to listen to. And the other people here who have recovered, BS's and FWS's, they know how to get there because they have actually done it. Please listen to them.

Ok Spring I can share a little of my story and I hope it helps. It will be a story full of holes and details that are relevant to my complete story but we don't have that kind of time to hear all of my stuff so here goes with what might help you.

It is long but I felt it was important to be comepletly transparent and leave it up to the reader to eat the meat and spit out the bones according to what they get out of it. Its about how I came to commit adultry and all the reasons I thought I had a right to. Its full of my own misconceptions and pain that I used to justify it and in the end how I was just fooling myself.

My second wife had a drinking problem which when she drank, she would hook up with other men. For the first couple years I gave her grace because she had gotten pregnant out of wedlock and when she was seen by the doctor found out she had advanced cervical cancer and she was sure she was going to die. Her behaviour got worse after the baby was born and the cancer was removed and when my daughter was 1 1/2 I couldn't take it anymore. I was never a heavy drinker and had seen alcohol destroy so many people so I hated it even more because it was destroying her and therefore me and our marriage. I was working and studing to get better work while she bindged in and out of life doing what alcoholics do.


I evenually saw that it was not me that could save her and at beat I was an enabler and a fool. A fool because I thought I could love her out of it. Dr H explains that untill someone stops thier love affair with substances there can be no work done on the marriage. I didn't have him around to tell me that but many who had experience told me she was in love with the bottle and it became obvious to me that I was in love with myself trying to be the hero. It was very painful to realize that I had made it easy for her by accepting her treatment of me. I was part of the problem. As much as I pleaded her to stop drinking and seek help she would not accept anything I asked and insisted I knew nothing and God would deal with her because only he loved her. I Agreed that God knew her best but God had rules about self-abuse and he had set her free. Why would she believe that she would survive this or was any different than his other creations? It was an argument that showed she was not truly repentant and as long as I was around I was delegated to serve whatever God she worshipped.

My God gave us freedom from fear of man. Hers must use manipulation. I wanted no part of that but I could not educate her because the bottle loved her more than me and she found peace in it along with the freedom to do whatever she felt. She didn't love me and inside I felt unlovable but knew I wasn't. What was i to do?

Around that time I ran into an old flame in a store. This was a girl I was very much in love with but had decided to cut it off because she was young when I met her and realized she still wanted to go out and party. I was 24 and she was 19 when I met her. Although I thought she was very mature for her age she was not done with the party scene and at 24 I was. I knew if I pursued a relationship with her I would probably bring her into my life which had to many issues that she was not responsible for and it wouldn't be fair. So I broke her heart caullously so we would not have a chance of getting back together. I thought I was cruel to be kind. In my mind there was this memory of how much I loved the kind of young woman she was and the dream I kept inside that maybe someday after I finished school in 7 years...but she got married 6 months after I broke up with her and I tossed that dream as foolish.. I met my second wife a year later after I broke up with her.


The old flame was now divorced.. my head spun.. What if I had not felt like such a loser? Did I marry my present wife becuase of my own insecurities? Me and the old flame used to talk about God which was something I never had in my first marriage and Old Flame and present wife came from the same church.

It opened my mind to posibilitys that I was not responsible for my wives drinking because I wasn't making enough money or wasn't Godly enough which was what was keeping me in the place of slavery. I was certainly a verifiable mess and staying with my present wife was doing no good for her. At the same time it was time for me to depend on God for answers on what I did with my life. I desired to be loved and respected but I knew the old flame was not the answer. I wanted to run away from my current wife because of the pain she was causing. I started making a plan that would allow me to get my young daughter away from her because my wife was twisted. It was time to run and start a new life. The old flame opened my mind to possibilitys even though I didn't pursue them.

I left my wife with her foster family because I knew my daughter would be cared for by them. I started to take very good care of myself, I had becaome a insulin dependant diabetic 3 years prior and diet was very important so I followed that religiuosly which helped me enormously. I worked two jobs to catch up on all the bills that had accumilated and sought out some therapy from every possible source I could including going back to alanon and talking about how I had stopped enabling her. My plan was to stay single and work on what I knew would be something my children would need when they grew older. A stable and responsible Dad who would be able to care for them in thier older years not just with money, but with a good head on his shoulders. My wife had gotten pregnant for our second child and still drank shortly before I moved her to her foster moms. I was on a desparate quest to save the innocent children and my wife was living the nightmare that she would turn out like her Mom. The one I thought I was there to save her from.

There was no chance of reconciliation, I told her to move on. I had no plans to have a relationship with another woman to make me "feel" better. I knew guys who said I should go out and sleep with some girl from the local bar to make me feel better but I was never really that good at that. They told me I was to seriuos but I knew that they wern't seriuos enough. I never saw any of those bar-room fantasys turn out well and didn't need that at all. I kept myself focused on work and dealing with the pleads from my wife wanting me to come get her, drinking and all, and bringing her home.

After 7 months in her home state she hit rock-bottom. Her foster Dad had moved her into a motel because he couldn't stand her drunken rages. Wife contacted her church, the church she said had saved her at 18, the one she was embarrassed to go back to because she had left, started drinking, gotten involved with me,and pregnant out of wedlock. The church that she was embarrassed to bring me to. The one that had the only man she ever respected as Pastor. The one in my opinion she should have shopped for a husband in. I told her she should because she needed someone strong in the faith who could counter her biblical snipes at me with ones that she could respect. I wanted her to be OK and healthy. I still felt it was me who was so arrogent at first to think I could help her. She needed whatever she percieved as a better man but I couldn't live with her under the mantle of idiot any longer. I wasn't and never have been stupid or a coward and thats what our relationship made me feel like. If she thought I was weak then that would have to be her problem, not mine anymore.

My friends were not the type to go to church and were mostly the "street-smart" kind. I ussually spent many hours in conversations arguing that picking up women from bars for one-night stands was worthless and dangerous and that love was more than a romp in the hay. One aquaintence in particular I took under my wing to teach him how to stop being afraid of work. He teetered on the brink of letting the world pay his way and mooching off others but I saw inteligence and sensitivity in him, buried mind you but there. He was the type to pick up girls in bars and because of his slight build,(he looked like dustin hoffman), and ability to carry on conversations on most subjects he slipped in past womens radar and ussually got what he wanted. Then he would tell me about it as I dragged him to work the next day. To me it was a project and study of the enemy at the same time. A place I should never have been. This guy constantly told me of his exploits and battled me about how I thought it was sleazy. The only misconception I shared with him was that a man needed sex to feel OK. That it was sometimes compartmentalized and desensitized down to a managable need that could be fufilled outside of a relationship. I struggled with myself and thought I would be more "normal" if I could do this because I felt there was something wrong with me. Truth is there was nothing wrong, just different than the norm displayed in the 70s and what was different was what made me right in my instincts. If I hadn't tried to walk the line between morallity and the bar-scene I wouldn't have this problem. I was allowing my pride and pain to rule what I "thought" I "needed". Wanting to be something I was not.

After 7 months of separation and hanging around with the wrong people I started recieving phone calls from a woman, a friend of a different friend who he had dated before. I kept it simple and explained I wasn't looking for relationship but she still flirted while acting not "really" interested. I talked to her maybe three times about whatever and didn't pursue her. One night when me and my sleazy friend stopped work we went to a bar. I sent him in so I could check my bloodsugar and stayed outside for 5 mins. I was frustrated to the max. I couldn't bring myself to approach women for sex. I remember looking up to the sky and asking whatever power that be to provide a women for me to make love with with no strings. Be careful what you ask for? The girl approched me in the bar, I went home with her, the fantasy started and I thought the desire she had towards me was magical. It was written in the stars. She wanted me and me her but it was all in my head and hers as life played it out and a year later she, on good advice from her therapist asked me to never return.

During that year the relationship went thru stages. At first it was me telling her thier was no way we could be together permanantly. I explained all the reasons why but she wanted it even more. If I was hardened like the rest of the guys I knew I would have never called the next day but I wanted that easy thing everyone else had. I had suffered enough right? I deserved to be happy to right? It was selfishness that drove me and bitterness that allowed it It was no longer about tenderness and intimacy but about fear and control. The very things that hurt me I was part of now. The more the OW wanted me the more loved I felt. My wife had come back to our hometown and was sober attending church now. I was involved with her and when I saw her she offered herself to me and I took it whenever I could. Her words from God and how she had repented bounced right off of me. It was just more bull that she was using to get her way IMO. She had her chance I was not giving my heart back to her.

Wife waited 1 1/2 years while hearing from me I was never coming back and fending off other suitors from her church and being told by a pastor she should give up. She took he blame and was waiting for God to bring me home. I still trusted a God that we go to his delegated authoritys with when we need help. Not one who allows us to continually abuse ourselves and justify it. She was a physically beautiful woman and I was confidant that she would be OK if she would just recieve the right kind of help. I was done with that, not because I didn't love who she was under all the craap but because she didn't love me as I was before. She was using our savior to her own hurt and thats not the God I (thought), I knew.

I went through many changes during the year of my affair. Whenever the OW would ask me if it was important to put the past behind us so we could be together I thought of my wife. If that was fair why not to her? The OW even attempted suicide once and we went to her counsellor a couple times to seek answers about fights and other things that came into the picture as reality set in. I was using her. I talked to a priest in her church and assisted in the baptism of her two children from previous marriage and relationship. I was so foggy that in the beginning of the relationship when she brought out the books on astrology,(Which I laughed at), I started to study it intensly to see what, if any, merit it carried in who I was and what I could do to fix myself. The relationship with OW had a lot of sexual "chemistry" and it took some time for me to see that even though it might be in the stars love was far beyond that and God made the stars and is the Author of love.

At the end of the affair the OW had told me she didn' t care what I did and I should go back to my wife if I wanted to. She had lent me a book by Scott Peck called "THe road less traveled" during my time with her. In that book I read again that Love was not a feeling. I also heard about how children who were loved and stuck by through anything did much better than those abandoned regaurdless of circumctances. I thought of my children, those innocent children who would be effected by the loss of thier father and my wives different God who allowed her the selfishness of entertaining the demons she herself was running away from. The ones who she was so afraid of being controlled by like her family was. The ones I wanted so much to protect her from as I loved her unconditionally in the past,(so I thought I could anyway). She was controlling her drinking, my daughter wanted daddy to come home from "colledge" as my wife told her. I had seen again how my emotions and reactions had screwwed up someone else. I was out of excuses. My existance and what I percieved as eventual carreer and financial security was no longer as important as the security I would give my children if I stayed with them through anything. I was painfully made aware that I was allowing my own feelings to be more important than my childrens and whatever I did I needed to stop that. I had fallen and failed to stay strong for my wife and children. I could have done anything but seek my own ego to be restored. I had jumped from the frying pan to the fire. I had confirmed the fear my wife was living inside instead of denying its reality. I could have made it a condition that she go to AA before we got back together but instaed I wanted to be her all in all and saviuor. The thing she convinced me in my foolish self-righteous straight-laced-hardworking poor-me mind.

On paying a visit to wifes house she had a couple friends over. I was talking to them about astrology and chemistry and how certain people are attracted to personality types and they didn't bat an eye. "Oh, you mean "soul-power" relationships. Yes they are very powerful but God is greater" I had studied astrology down to the symbolism used by ancient astromters since they used to believe that events were able to be predicted by planets and stars. Not the ones who tell you your lucky numbers or who you should be with that day. The strict observations and symbols given for the "gods" they worshipped then. It became apparent to anyone that if you take the fact that nobody will be born with the same attributes metaphisically as you for 10,000 years, and those combinations according to astrologers have extreme differances from anyone else, and combine that with your personal experiances and realitivity to the time you are living. You indeed are like nobody ever created and it is true that we are different than anybody else ever born. Its no wonder God calls it witchcraft.

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

It became apparent that I was looking for help in the wrong places. I was broken again but my time was best spent with my wife and children and my new old enemy was whatever caused my wife and children fear.

There is much more to my story but there is where the affair went full circle. Our marriage had an upspike as my wife did not return for many years to substance abuse and the children had dodged the bullet that was hunting them down. If wife was open to help from outside sources she would be alive today and praising this site and its practical wisdom and knowledge The Harleys give for Gods most valuable gift in relationships.

Seeing ourselves and how selfish we can become is painful. running away from it was not Gods intention as we learn that his laws were put here to protect us from ourselves.

Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Being married is a selfish love. As humans we are conditional in our love. We love because we are loved. We follow the rules because we want to be loved. We forgive because we want to restore love. Having an affair hurt me and my family and probably my wifes recovery from substance abuse and fears she had all her young life. I came back without a solid plan or the proper self-worth to insist she go to counselling before we got back together. My affair clouded the original issue that caused the pain that drove me to the affair. I have seen that long ago but have to live now with the fact that some things must be dealt with directly and taken accountability for to heal. Or they exist as lies we tell ourselves that God would gladly wipe from our lives if we just admitted we need help. It takes time to forgive ourselves just as it takes time to forgive others. Its just our human condition and that doesn't change. Its painful because we must mourn our own misconceptions of who we think we are and why we did what we did but in doses of reaping the consequences we come to full repentance. Which is all we can ever be capable of.

It is comforting to know that Gods love and the rules laid out in places like this can save us from ourselves when we apply them to our lives. Ignore the temptation to believe that its hopeless because others are pointing out your mistakes. As you probably have been learning in life

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.


You will come through this with the help of many different perspectives

This is when I started my post , book, larry lol top that!

OK, no more slams�.. I�m going to help you!


This is by CHOICE! You will remain alone as long as you CHOOSE to be dishonest with all those around you.

I�m not calling you a name here, just pointing out the obvious�� but YOU are currently an unrepentant adulteress.

You will be considered a repentant adulteress once you are honest with all of the people in your life. And do a 180!

So ��.

STEP 1) Get Honest with your Husband, your children, your extended family, your employer, your Minister, your friends, and your neighbors.

HONESTY! It is an action you choose and it comes before all other actions, OK!

Do this and the next step will be possible.

If you don�t do this then NOTHING else is possible�� So far you�ve NOT done this�.. So get into gear and start making those calls and having those face to face talks.

When I did this, I explained that my wife did not get to vote about my adultery therefore the psycho-babble crap that it takes two to create the marital problem didn�t fly any longer. It took two adulterers for sure, but not a husband and wife to make adultery occur. OK so, that should be clear!

HONESTY! Pretty simple really. You don�t even need to understand Dr. Harley�s program to complete this ACTION STEP�






The reason this is true is����.. They are practicing STEP 1 - HONESTY!




The reason this is true is����.. You have not completed STEP 1 - HONESTY!

STEP 2) NO CONTACT

This has been kicked around so much on this thread because it has NOT happened yet, RIGHT?

1) HONESTY
2) NO CONTACT


The honesty will naturally cause STEP 2 to occur easily�.


The obvious thing in both of these steps is that Dr. Harley�s Program still hasn�t kicked in yet.

So����.

STEP 3) Read and study Dr. Harley�s program and come to this forum for help.

This step is useless until you complete STEP 1 & 2

sc,

Any tip given to you to stop your mind focusing on OM is wasted while you continue to work at the same place that he does. As long as this situation continues, your mind will not stop focusing on him, and you cannot rebuild your marriage.

Yes SpringChicken, this is what you need to change before your head has any hope of clearing. Trust this. they know of which they speak

She told you to quit your job and expose to the other man's wife, if he has one. (I see that he doesn't.) Both of those are excellent pieces of advice. She also told you to be honest with your husband, which is spectacular advice.

That's the only way that works; take it, or leave it. I'm sure you feel you can figure it out fine on your own, though.


Then why aren't you taking her advice?


Quit your job. Be honest with your husband.

SC

I understand you wanting to keep some kind of contact with OM...I know you think you can control yourself and maybe you can physically; however, you can't control your mind and you can't make good decisions while he is still in the picture. I know this now. I too am not always certain if my marriage will survive; however, I know that in order to make that decision and feel like it is truly the right one, I have to do it with NO outside influence from OM. Anything less would not be honest and I don't want to continue being dishonest to myself and others.

I have to disagree you with you here, SC. The problem is that you are SHORT on judgment, which has led to your current dilemma. So short in fact, that you no longer can judge right from wrong. You are so short on judgment that you have lost all touch with reality and can't see yourself clearly, much less be honest about who you are really are.

You seem to expect others to be as dishonest in that clarity of vision, but you won't find that here, except maybe with other sympathetic foghorns. The first step in recovery is to GET HONEST with yourself.


Yet another foggy statement. Here is what I told you the first day:
That is not only "practical," it is the only solution to your problem.


Again, you are the LEAST qualifed person on this thread to decide what is "helpful" and not helpful. How would you know? Your best thinking got you in this mess, after all. So, I would stress that you are not the best judge of what is helpful. Leave that to the rest of us.

Have you told your BH about the renewed contact and the extent of it?

You don't even need us to tell you what to do. Because if you were in the least serious, you would have already done it. How hard would it have been to change #s so the OM could not reach you? Yet you didn't do it. You didn't bother to even do Step #1 in recovery from an affair which is to affair proof your marriage. That is because you aren't serious.

You are dangerous to your husband. The best advice we can give you is to tell your husband what you have done to him ............AGAIN.... so he can protect himself from you. For someone to do this to a man over and over again is beyond CRUEL. CRUEL. You have no excuse anymore. NONE.

So please tell your H what you have done to him and send him here so we can help him.

Correction: "Because OM was ALLOWED to contact me again." <-------because this very wayward poster isn't the slightest bit serious about protecting her husband from her cruelty.

As I said a year ago: "short on judgement........."

ML--no disrespect, but you are a BS. And you speak from the perspective a BS. And you should be careful about your posts and your advice. I left these boards a year ago because of your comments. They were hurtful and unhelpful. You did not help the situation, and you're not helping me now. Why are you on these boards, and please stop commenting on my posts. WPG speculated on why there were no WW posting on these boards. This is why. I specifically requested that WWs respond to my post. Unless you have walked in my shoes, you have no business casting stones.

You left the boards because you were not serious about recovery...not because of anything ML said.

This is proven by your shocking lack of EPs, lack of empathy for your H and renewed contact...

Stop painting yourself as a victim. Melody is giving you very SOUND advice yet you refuse to listen.

LOL. Another comment from a betrayed spouse. Shocking.

LOLOL......your poor BH!

Oh no, you left because you are not serious. No one is fooled by that at all. No one has to walk in your shoes to know that. Make no mistake about that.

And I will not stop responding to your post.


You are the least qualified person on this thread to determine what is and isn't helpful. Is the falling down drunk qualified to lecture the sober people on what is or isn't helpful? Your best thinking got you in this mess, dear.

What is not shocking is that you feel entitled to get advice from a WS...entitled to having someone cajoling you into doing the right thing... That is a very wayward mentality so I am not surprised at all.