Another thought on interactions with her friends:

Don't give them any ammo. If you show a wounded attitude, it disarms them and doesn't give them much to use against you in testimony.

There's a big difference between, "When I've interacted with him, all he's done is say that he's sorry that WW is having an affair and that he'd like to restore his family. He didn't say much beyond that." versus, "He made his daughter cry and berated me in front of her. I felt very threatened by his yelling. He scared me and I worry about his temper."

Disarm her friends. Don't accuse them of enabling her. Instead of that, say, "It would be nice to have your support in keeping our family together. It's ultimately what is best for the kids."

Pretend everything is being watched by a judge and let that guide your actions.

What exactly has been filed in terms of custody?

Have you filed for sole physical and legal custody?

I understand that you won't get it, but you file for it anyways. You throw down the gauntlet.

I also got the impression that she moved out, not you. So if you're in the marital home that's good.

If you're offered 50/50 by her, take it and run and then go to Plan B with total darkness. Hard to do with little ones. Basically impossible once you're divorced since you will have parent-teacher conferences, sporting events, classes, recitals, plays, etc.

But cutting off all unnecessary contact is a big step in the healing process.

Look up Mortarman and his thread. He's recovered, but he fought for custody tooth and nail and it wasn't until the WW saw how much she was going to lose that she came around and woke up.

It's ironic, but makes sense. I think that if I had played my cards right from a legal standpoint and put the fear of God into my WXW about the fact that she was genuinely threatened with losing custody she may have tried to reconcile.

Hindsight is 20/20. I wish I could have dealt with her by showing little to no emotion (like James Bond). But I didn't.

I came away with a good custody arrangment, but that's because I fought for it tooth and nail.

help,

Thanks for your detailed replies.

I live in D.C. Our marital home was in D.C., which I was forced to leave last June.

Our case is being handled in (northern) Virginia, a state that considers adultery for alimony, which my WW is not claiming.

If only I had heard sooner to attend the scheduling conference. Oh well. I have a job interview tomorrow morning, so it's not a total loss.

As for what's been filed, WW wants joint custody but me getting the kids every other weekend. I want 50/50 and will stay firm on this. FWIW, my lawyer did not think I could get more beyond 50/50. But let me ask him again tomorrow or Friday. Perhaps he will change his mind.

Is your point about me filing for sole custody that doing so may wake up WW from the fog?

My priest/spiritual adviser recommends sending an apology to my WW's enabler for the manner in which I spoke, not the content of my words. I would write, "I'm sorry for admonishing you about my wife's affair. I did not mean to raise my voice and get emotional. All I want is for my family to reconcile. The past 18 months have been painful and difficult." My priest said that writing such an email or letter would show heroic virtue. Do you think such a message would be prudent?

By sending anything you corroborate her story. At the very least, do NOT send anything without running it by your lawyer.

If you put it in writing you will be admitting to what she claims. If you don�t, then it�s a he said/she said issue. I would not do this. If you�re ever confronted about it you can deny that you ever raised your voice or said anything bad. DO NOT admit to anything in writing.

As far as custody goes, go by what your lawyer says, but mine asked for it all, knowing that we wouldn�t get it. But I will say it shook the ex that I would take such a step. So there is psychological value to doing so.

Hi MJ,

It is really good to see you still posting here in spite of yoru situation. I now it is tough, but ya know what, I sort of have a gut feeling that in the end she will see you as her best choice. Just a gut feeling on my part.

Kerala, I stongly disagree with your opinion. I believe that MJ listened to his heart and confided in his priest. That should be commended and not willy nilly advised against in terms of lawyers. MJ, in my humble opionion you did the right thing and you do not need to be afraid of what some willy nilly lawyer could possibly make of this.

In the meantime, I had let my exercising go for a few weeks back in the end of April and early May. But am back at it. Even tho I restarted it makes me feel good and now I am starting to feel the difference. I feel better and more alive in waking up and stronger. A good feeling. Hardest part is keeping on keeping on, but I do it as a challenge to my body.

Anyway, I know you are trying to get thru and resolve this uncertainty with your W and your family and I know that has to be really tough. But, compared to many others that I have seen on here your persistence and your dedication here is a shining example of a guy who unflinchingly loves his wife but has to put up with her personal failure.

I hope and pray that you remain persevering and continue to post here MJ, and also I think really you could begin to post to other BH's with your example.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks again for all of your encouragement and advice. Reading your post yesterday made my day. Finally, I thought, a hope in the unseen! Somebody thinks our family will make it through!

I still hope WW returns. A reconciliation would be best for everyone -- her, me, our kids. It would be difficult -- extremely difficult based on what Dr. H and Mark1952 say. But divorcing, attempting to get an annulment, finding another wife, and integrating her into my life would also be difficult. God has a plan, I guess. I don't like it, but what can I do?

I am glad to hear about you exercising again. You sound like a champ. Do you ever combine the strength training with running or walking?

I hear you about me posting to other BH's threads. We're thinking along the same lines. I read part of the thread "Confronting the OM" and need to give him my two cents.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

The mediator called me yesterday and left a message. (A custody hearing in my case has been set for late September and a trial date for late October) My lawyer says I need to set up a meeting with the mediator. Does delaying the meeting do any good?

I'm undecided. On the one hand, I would like to get all meetings out of the way, as I am job hunting. On the other hand, I figure that the closer our case goes to trial the more WW will crumble, as WS's don't want their dirty laundry aired publicly.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

MJ,

You need to get books on this and understand the process. There won't be any airing of laundry with a mediator.

They will try to get you guys to come to an agreement regarding custody and division of assets and avoid a trial.

If you get 50/50 custody, then take it and run. If you don't, then take it to trial.

It's really that simple. Stuff can be replaced. So don't go 20 rounds over the set of dishes since you could buy 10 with what you'll spend on lawyers.

DO go 20 rounds on getting a minimum of 50/50 custody, if not full out primary.

If you get it, then run with it and make a deal.

If you don't get it, then don't settle for less.

But there won't be any airing of dirty laundry and bringing up such things makes you look bad to the mediator who could blame you for having things fall apart.

Be above the fray.

Help,

Thanks. Your continual posts on my threads are helpful and inspiring even.

I bought "Father's Rights" and read about a quarter of it. I will send you an update sometime soon, perhaps this weekend.

I will call the mediator now.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

A brief update: I meet with my lawyer tomorrow to discuss the likelihood of me getting a 50-50 custody settlement. Also, I need to return the call of the mediator in my case.

I would provide an update on "Father's Rights" by Jeffery Leving but realize I need to read it again. I was going to wonder what's the worst thing that can happen if my case goes to trial, but after I read this section briefly, I see that a trial can take two or three years and tens of thousands of dollars! Still, seeing my kids every other weekend is unacceptable.

More to come ...


-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
WW lives in Va.
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

Every other weekend is fine as long as you get a guaranteed 2 days during the regular week.

I talked with my lawyer this afternoon. The most interesting thing he said is that unless I reach a mediated settlement with WW in the next few weeks, he will send a deposition to the OM. If the OM and WW are continuing their A and showing affection to each other around my kids, this fact will hurt her in a custody battle. He raised the possibility of hiring a private eye. Which raises a question in my mind: Shouldn't I just take the pictures of them together and her sleeping at his house? This would save money.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.0 and DD2.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
WW lives in Va.
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

MichaelJan - ask your lawyer about that. A private eye in this state told me that it needs to be a third party to help make it more credible. The PI should get a picture of them entering the house and exiting the next morning. It passes a reasonableness standard.

3rd party. Don't get crazy doing this, though. Some basic evidence should be enough.

But a deposition is a good idea to do on OM.

It's expensive, though.

You put him under oath and he has to answer the questions or perjure himself. It's a real wakeup call.

Bring evidence to throw at him, such as phone records.

A PI pic taken prior to deposition would be good. The place to catch him in a lie is just before court. You can do things in a deposition you could never do in court. There is no "discovery" for a deposition, so you could throw evidence at him as a "surprise".

For example:

Are you having a relationship with WW?

Him: No, we're just friends.

Have you ever spent the night at her house or have her spend it with you?

Him: No.

Could you please explain this: (picture of them kissing or holding hands).

Then present the picture of her car or his overnight at someone's house.

Get it on a night your kids are over there, which would also show that they're doing stuff with the kids around.

But depositions are expensive.

If, however, you can settle with your WW for 50/50 (settle for no less), then take it. Save the expense if you can.

Andy M,

Thanks for following my thread. I will follow yours.

Yes, I will ask my lawyer. Good idea. It's just that Mark1952 advised me once to snap photos of the two by myself.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.0 and DD2.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
WW lives in Va.
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

help,

Thanks again. Your detailed posts are most helpful.

The OM acts fairly strategically. He surely asked my WW to destroy the computer she used to send their email messages of lust; the computer was replaced a month before WW moved out. And whenever he called my home, I learned later, he called on an unlisted number. His dad was a cheater, so he learned a few tricks of the trade so to speak.

The OM will DEFINITELY lie in a deposition. He lied to his wife about his A with WW. He lied to me twice about their A when we spoke and once when he sent me an email. And, it seems fair to conclude, he has coached WW to lie or not admit to their A. He's a liar. (I know, I know: shocking). Is lying in a deposition considered a crime or big deal in a custody case?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.0 and DD2.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
Plan B/D
WW lives in Va.
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

He's under oath and his words are admissable during a deposition.

But he's not as important to catch in lies as your WW is. Her lying under oath is a bad thing. Getting him and your WW to contradict each other gives you ammo for the trial.

Understand that you won't have a trial right away. I had a pendente lite hearing, which is a step before a trial. This was done before a Master, which acts the same way a judge does and is addressed the same, but who isn't a judge.

Pendente lite means (pending litigation) which is to establish a temporary custody arrangement until you can have a merits trial. The "temporary" arrangement has a habit of becoming the permanent one.

I don't know what the rules of your state are, but that's how it was in MD.

You prep for your PL hearing as you would for court.

Have you requested a best interests attorney to represent your kids? That might be a very good idea. Mine was very fair in my case.

help,

I did ask my lawyer. He said that the county in which WW filed does not allow best interests attorneys.

In other news, I talked with a representative from a mediation service. He recommended that WW and I get two mediators in our case -- a male and female. The cost for the extra mediator is $45 an hour. Is getting two mediators advisable? Also, should my lawyer be present during the mediation?

One final issue: DD4's ballet recital is this Sunday. WW will be there, as will two of her Enablers, including the one I scolded last month. Part of me thinks that if I showed up late, I would not see WW and her Enablers, could get credit for cooperating with WW, and would enjoy seeing DD4. Part of me also thinks that on this matter, I should stick to Plan B. What do you think?

Thanks again. Your advice is invaluable. I owe you!

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD4.0 and DD2.5)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
Plan B/D
WW lives in Va.
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful