ITA with Reading. These feelings are all normal.

Part of what got me through, when I was having those thoughts, was realizing that during those times, I wasn't thinking rationally. I had to remind myself that when I went into Plan B, it was done with a lot of pre-thought and I KNEW it was the right choice, and nothing had changed.

Your WW was doing rotten things BEFORE you went into Plan B. Just like you can't control what others do, you also can't make someone do something either. You going into Plan B isn't going to make her act in a more despicable way, she will do that regardless of your actions. All you are doing is removing you from the equation. You are refusing to let her take you down with her.

When you are having those thoughts, it is more important NOT to contact her. Don't feed into it. Pray. It WILL pass, as long as you don't feed it.

Stay dark and don't doubt yourself. You really did all that you could have done.

Focus. At various times I took an excedrin PM. It just helps you drift to sleep and sleep through the night. Not prescription stuff. Focus on those thoughts that are pure, lovely, and right. Take a bit to enjoy yourself too. Watch a movie or see a friend.

Make a rule of "no A talk"

cv

Thanks Reading and Scotland. I guess I didn't really think that she would get worse, it was just that I finally gave her what she "wanted", which was to live her own life, and it just was eating at me. I know that many have gone through the same thing so I know I'm not alone.

I've read about the struggle that a wayward goes through after breaking off an affair and i never considered that, in essence, it's much the same experience for a BS in Plan B.

Another thing that so greatly bothers me is the fact that I never really had a chance to Plan A properly from Day 1. The idea and hope that I have of the Plan B affecting her seems to have been squashed by that fact alone. Yes, I still love my wife and continue to hope and pray for reconciliation, but it seems that with the circumstances of whole separation, it doesn't look likely.

The impact that spending time with my daughter was even harder knowing how this will impact her. Hearing her ask some of the questions and make some of the statements she's made just rips me apart. All of this as a result of her mother being so selfish.

Mark, the times that we see our children suffer from their parent's decisions ARE going to be hardest. Make sure that you are honest with your DD about your WW and what you tried to do. Remember that most of the things you say may wind up being heard by your WW as well. Keep venom out of it, but make it truthful.

What I found really effective was saying things like, "When two people are married, it is wrong for one of them to have a BF or a GF. And when you are single, it is wrong to date someone who is already married." My children then inferred that what my WH and OW were doing was wrong. They even asked if my WH would be able to go to heaven when he died. You can't leave the moral and principle teaching up to your WW, she is teaching your DD that wrong is right, and it's not.

You WILL make it through. And you really did do all that you could. I like to remember something my dad says, "When I know better, I do better." You were willing to change, and meet ENs, your WW wouldn't let you.

I know that I did what I could. I guess the disappointment I feel now is due to hearing and reading about all of those in Plan A while still in the same house. I never had the chance. Plan A is hard to do from a distance and I never had a chance. I feel like going Plan B, while it is the best for me, will probably do little to save my marriage since I wasn't able to do anything really to make her second guess walking away.

That's really the most frustrating part of my situation. I know this whole ordeal will do nothing but make me a better person in many different areas. It actually already has.

On a side note, I was watching a Tyler Perry play on DVD today when at the end Tyler Perry comes out and offers some insight in his reason for writing the play and some words of encouragement. In his monologue he stated that God often allows many of the resources available to you to fall through and doors to close so that He can prove to you and anyone else that He was responsible for the miracle and no one else. I have actually said these very words to a few people. Maybe it was confirmation, IDK.

The odd thing about the DVD is that I've had it for about 5 months and never watched it entirely until today. Maybe God was trying to tell me something. Nonetheless, I do know that if my marriage is to be saved and my WW turned around, HE is the only one with the ability to do it.

Mark, I totally get the doubting and second guessing.

In my sitch, I was able to Plan A(by all accounts, I did a good job) and I have been pretty darn good at Plan B, and my marriage will most likely end as well. Thing is, I am starting to get to the point where I don't care if it ends. I know that sounds bad, and to me, it is a little scary, but I don't regret one moment I spent in plan A or Plan B.

None of my Plan A or Plan B were about my WH. They were about ME. I get that now. I didn't then. When I started MB, I needed to believe that I was doing this to save my marriage. That was the only way I would have been convinced to do any of the things that I needed to do. I wanted to save my marriage so badly. Now, I don't even know if I want my WH to come home. I know that I would still give him a chance, so I haven't given up completely, but it's not the same. I believe that if you stick to MB, you will see that you really did do all that you could. Imagine what you would have done without MB and how your life would be different, then you may stop second guessing what you did do.

Well, my hands are kinda hurting now from the last couple of hours of messing around with learning jazz on the piano. I'm approaching 1 week in Plan B and I will say that WW still pops up in my mind. I guess no matter what happens, I'll be okay either way. It's still tough, though.

Also, it's been more than 2 months since my last porn episode and almost 3 weeks since my revelation about porn being adultery in the eyes of God and I'm doing GREAT. I even turned off a movie last week because it contained too much sexual content.

Well, I had a minor setback today. Things have been going fairly well until my pastor called. He is the pastor of the church that I left, where WW and her family goes, and who had a talk with her two weeks ago. In their talk, he asked if she was seeing someone which she denied. She said she didn't have time. She did admit to still texting and chatting via the dating website which he told her was still adultery. He's convinced she's lying about seeing someone.

When he told me about her "not having time", I told him to watch for something. I said watch and see that she is never at church on weekends that I have daughter meaning she has plenty of time every other weekend. I told him I would bet she doesn't attend this weekend.

I had to say all of that so you would understand that he called me today and said "you would've won that bet". Not realizing what he was talking, i asked "what bet" and he reminded me of my statement. He then tells me that she didn't attend. He didn't have to tell me for me to know but when he told me, it caused a lot of different emotions to surface yet again. I finally told him that I didn't want to hear anything else about my WW and he said okay.

The damage was already done, though, as it relates to my plan b and keeping my emotions in check. I wish he hadn't done that.

Mark,

You may want to have him take you to lunch (pastor's have expense accounts after all ) and explain to him why you don't want to hear about it. Not just that it is painful, but that you are doing a "plan b" with her. Explain to him what plan B is and what the desired result will be.

Now that I think about it, you may want to print some MB stuff out so he can read through it.

Hang in there brother, you are doing well

CV (who is now sitting down for some ribs and school work)

How are you doing? Hanging in there?

Doing okay, I guess. I just can't wait for the day when I don't ever think about her, if it comes at all.

Mark,

I just caught up on your thread and I�m worried about a few things. I think you made some very big mistakes that could cost you in terms of your DD. For starters, you should be seeing her much more than you�re seeing her. Not all is lost.

This is where there needs to be a bit of bluffing on your part, from a legal standpoint. I understand that you�re broke and can�t afford big legal expenses right now. But so was I.

There�s a ton in your situation that is similar to the one I had.

For a long time there was no one specific OM. There were a group of them that she was flirting with online and one she got physical with, but they didn�t have contact after their encounter, especially when I came home from my deployment and I confronted him. He didn�t know she was still married and I believe him since ALL the OM I talked to told me she lied to them about her marital status.

I divorced quickly, without mediation, and I gave up a lot, just as you are doing right now.

It was a pretty big hill to climb and undo after it was all over. I was unemployed, broke, and separated from my kids.

But I fought back eventually.

I have a feeling you will eventually get to a good place where you can fight for custody of your daughter.

But you need to do a few things to get yourself ready. Number one is to make sure your DD has her own very specific and special place in your apartment. Decorate a room for her and make it special.

Go into mediation asking for a 50/50 custody arrangement. You�re already in the middle of litigation and I�ve seen very little advice given to you on protecting your rights as a father. Understand that you have as much of a right to time with your DD as your WW does. This means you need to take steps to protect yourself and it starts at mediation.

Do not settle for anything less than 50/50 custody. Walk out of mediation with an agreement that you are to get 50/50 custody.

If she doesn�t give it or agree to it, then settle all other matters, but leave the custody up for contention. Courts have been very fair to fathers in the last few years. So get your life in total order. I would have advised you to not announce your porn thing publicly since it could be used against you in court. But that�s done now.

Can you afford a lawyer? You need one badly.

I can�t emphasize enough to you how important it is that you protect your rights as a father. Disappearing right now is not good for you legally.

You�re on a path right now which can be twisted against you and they could try to claim that you deserve no more than the time you have now. That means you need to ask for more time with your DD. Go to her plays. Sit far away if you need to, but you must show that you�re involved.

Courts could care less about Plan B or anything of the sort. Attending your daughter�s events doesn�t have to violate your Plan B if you sit far away from your WW and don�t speak to her.

I know that your WW will see you, so it isn�t really Plan B, but your absence from your DD�s events can be twisted against you legally.

You are now in a fight for your rights as a father. You�ve given too much ground on this front right now and you must do something to correct it.

I would start by lawyering up, filing a petition for primary custody, and steeling yourself for the fight.

You will otherwise find yourself divorced, paying out the nose in child support, never seeing your DD other than your every other weekend time, and in a world of hurt over not seeing your DD.

Your IM needs to step up and step in to really show they�re there and ready and able to respond and intervene.

Help,there are a couple of things from your post I want to address:

It seems that you were resigned to end your marriage and move on. That was your choice and I understand but i haven't totally given up yet. I'm doing everything humanly possible to try and keep things in tact.

As far as DD goes, full or at the least 50/50 custody was something I planned on addressing at mediation. I'm not really too worried about the public confession. At that point, it's hold on me was all bit gone and now I don't even think about it anymore. I would even take a poly to prove that it has not been a part of my life for a little while now.

What about the proof I have about her infidelity, both past and present? Couldn't that impact the courts when I've made some changes for the better and she continues in adultery? Couldn't that be something to use along with all her lies and deciet that ARE documented?

As far as legal counsel, I just can't afford it so that is pretty much out. Plus, since January, I have been paying support because of the provisional and I couldn't see DD more because I was going to school 4 days a week. Initially we'd agreed to split time, but school was an issue then.

Im also a little confused about what you want the IM to do. He's only a messenger.

Also, feel free anyone else who would like to chime in.

I wasn't resigned to the divorce. I didn't want it anymore than you want yours.

What I'm trying to do is wake you up to the very real possibility that you will have the arrangement you have now with your DD forever because you're establishing a status quo.

I'm not telling you to not fight the divorce, but the ball is rolling on that front whether you like it or not and the very short response you just gave me indicates that you really have no clue about family law, just as I didn't have a clue about family law.

Here's the reality:

The courts don't care about adultery or infidelity.

They don't care if she's lied or is documented to lie.

They do care if you're involved in your DD's activities.

They do care if you have a place for DD to sleep and stay at and an adequate home for her.

They do care how you get along with your WW and if you'll be able to coparent with her.

They are biased towards moms unless you are one of the men who actually fights.

Understand that she will likely not agree to 50/50, especially if she has a lawyer.

Get a second job if necessary, but you need a lawyer ASAP.

Men have been able to save their marriages, even after the divorce process has started. But those that saved their marriages did so because they fought smart legally and got the WW to a point where the WW realized she stood to lose custody.

You could talk till you're blue in the face about how you've given up on porn. I would use your public confession as her lawyer and try to twist it to make you out to be a pervert and introduce a doubt in the judge's mind on your ability to parent and how you might expose your daughter to your prurient interests. I sincerely hope she never learns of your confession.

As your lawyer, I would advise you to minimize and not overstate how much you looked at it. I would tell you that if you're confronted about it, I would admit that you looked, but NEVER admit that you were addicted. You're not a psychologist and can't determine on your own if you're addicted. The fact that you don't look at it anymore is proof you're not addicted.

Again, I give you this advice not to bash you but to wake you up.

You're in a war now that divorce papers are filed. She would be very smart to lawyer up. If she does so, you will be up the creek if you don't. Find help to pay for it or get a second job.

Your custody as a father depends on it.

Fighting tooth and nail for everything is the only thing that will let you come away with at least the shirt on your back.

Understand that "fighting" doesn't mean get dirty. It means standing up for yourself and let everyone know that you won't go quietly as a dad and that your DD needs you in her life.

That means you need to wear a suit to every single court appearance, even with the mediator. Your demanor matters. Your appearance matters.

Also, any email you send her can be used against you.

And don't be surprised if she attempts to insinuate, if not flat out accuse you, of abusing your DD.

She's already tried to file a restraining order against you, so I wouldn't put it past her and I wouldn't be surprised.

Like you, I was in denial about a lot, including the fact that she might resort to such dirty tactics.

Many women do resort to such tactics and there are a few men on this board who dealt with false accusations, myself included. My ex's accusations weren't as severe as some of the others here, but she did try to make it.

Well, neither of us can afford lawyers so weve both been representing ourselves. I understand what you're doing, believe me.

My reference to your divorce wasn't really about whether you wanted it or not. It was based on the fact you said it happened quickly. We are right now at 6 months since she filed with at least 2-3 more to go, if not more.

As far as the confession goes, she knows. Not much I can do about that

When it comes to the emails, I have a file that contains everything that has been sent and received, and to be honest, her correspondence is a lot more susceptible to being ridiculed. And when I say I have everything, I mean everything.

When it comes to involvement in my DD's life, I have always been there. I know that those on the thread will not like it but I even snuck in to see her play performance tonight. I showed up 15 minutes late, knowing that I wouldn't miss DD and stood at the door in a very dark auditorium. I stayed until DD's part came up and even recorded it on my phone. After her part was over I left and I still kept the nc. WW even tried to call me afterwards probably thinking I wasn't there.

When you talk about the ability to coparent, I've tried to talk with her throughout this. She always takes our conversations to another level even when asked to simply speak in a respectable manner. This happened even when I tried to discuss with her the logistics of the divorce. I even know others who have been verbally abused by her during all if this. So am I supposed to give her unlimited chances to simply be civil or protect my mental wellbeing.

A sheriffs deputy (and close friend) who was at the court when our final hearing fell through heard her tirade at the courthouse. I have witnesses to her verbally abusive behavior so her antics font scare me.

She's trying to bully me to get what she wants and I just won't allow it.

One thing the IM can do that helps here in a legal sense is save the vitriolic emails she sends as well...

My brother had an affair (to get his wife to leave him, rather than leaving because he had an affair...) and the adultery was a factor in our state. In fact, it was the deciding factor. the judge took him to task about the trustworthiness of him being able to care for the girls because of his bad moral decisions.

I am not sure of the laws where Mark is living, but it would be worth looking into.

CV

Ok. You're documenting. That's good.

But you must keep in mind that courts are biased.

Is there a formal arrangement with the current custody arrangement?

I ask because it is horrible for you. You should have 50/50 now.

My advice, from a legal standpoint and from a "save your marriage" standpoint, is that if you don't have a formal separation, which involves a temporary custody order, then there is nothing that legally restricts you from moving back into your home.

If, however, there is a formal, legally ordered separation, then stick with what you have now, but file for a pendente lite custody hearing if mediatin fails.

Go out today and get two books: Custody for Fathers, and Father's Rights.

Get these and read them and use them.

Yeah, I've been keeping emails for quite a while. I also have some pretty damaging texts from her if they are admissible (and if I knew how to get them from my phone to my pc).

And yes, there is a formal custody arrangement. Since the provisional hearing, I've been getting her every other Sunday and every other Friday thru Monday.

As far as the house is concerned, that's out right now. She moved out 1 1/5 months after I did because it gave her more freedom to do what she wanted. It's in foreclosure now and I don't have the funds to stop the process.

At this point, if my situation is going to be turned around, God will have to do it. I definitely know He can!!!

You are going to be killed with child support under that arrangement. You need more time not just for the financial considerations, but to protect your daughter. The only really damaging emails are ones where she threatens to keep you from seeing DD. The other damaging ones are any that insinuate or threaten. Otherwise, they likely won't hurt her much. You have to disclose all emails to her, and vice versa, during discovery.