|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Let's look at another article by Harley that sums it up quite well. In it, he explains that in order to recover from an affair, the CONDITIONS that led to the affair have to be removed. And what are the "conditions" that led to your wife's affair? 1. her opposite sex "friendships" 2. her lifestyle that takes her away from home Those conditions have to change if you want to save your marriage. Those conditions are extraordinary PRECAUTIONS designed to protect you from another affair. EP's are not negotiable because to do that is to negotiate away your marriage. There is no compromise, no POJA. Your approach is tepid, timid and reflects a complacency that looks like you care MORE about avoiding conflict than you do your marriage. By "compromising" EPs, you are compromising the recovery of your marriage. That is like negotiating with a terrorist. There is a huge difference between appeasement and respect and I don't think you know the difference. The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.
I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
Let's look at another article by Harley that sums it up quite well. In it, he explains that in order to recover from an affair, the CONDITIONS that led to the affair have to be removed. And what are the "conditions" that led to your wife's affair?
1. her opposite sex "friendships"
2. her lifestyle that takes her away from home
Those conditions have to change if you want to save your marriage. Those conditions are extraordinary PRECAUTIONS designed to protect you from another affair. EP's are not negotiable because to do that is to negotiate away your marriage. There is no compromise, no POJA.
Your approach is tepid, timid and reflects a complacency that looks like you care MORE about avoiding conflict than you do your marriage. By "compromising" EPs, you are compromising the recovery of your marriage. That is like negotiating with a terrorist. There is a huge difference between appeasement and respect and I don't think you know the difference. #1 it could be me trying to avoid conflict. But also trying to be realistic. She is literally 1 of a hand full of women. No opposite sex friendships means NO friendships. While i want to do everything possible to prevent the possibility of it occurring again it would be saying. "Spend the next 4 months, with no family around, no friends living in a 10ft-6ft room with no outside contact. #2 is not possible to end for a few years, unless she goes AWOL. While this situation is a burden on the marriage ,a dishonorable discharge, after spending 1 1/2 to 2 years in jail, wouldn't help much. On another note. We have good friends coming in to visit while she is home. Do i tell them about the issues with hopes they can talk some sense into her, since it wouldn't be coming from me?
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
#1 it could be me trying to avoid conflict. But also trying to be realistic. She is literally 1 of a hand full of women. No opposite sex friendships means NO friendships. While i want to do everything possible to prevent the possibility of it occurring again it would be saying. "Spend the next 4 months, with no family around, no friends living in a 10ft-6ft room with no outside contact. That would be great. There is no "friend" that is worth your marriage, is there? That is all you are saying. You are saying that her social life takes precedence over your marriage. That attitude has not served you well, with one affair under your belt and another on the way. Placing such a low priority on protecting your marriage is likely to lead to other affairs. The basic issue here is that your marriage has NEVER recovered from the last affair, and as such, is headed for another one. See, if you get hit by a car by playing chicken, the solution is to get out of the street. Your wife is still playing in the street. Guess what is likely to happen........AGAIN? #2 is not possible to end for a few years, unless she goes AWOL. While this situation is a burden on the marriage ,a dishonorable discharge, after spending 1 1/2 to 2 years in jail, wouldn't help much. I don't believe this. We have had other soldiers go to their commanding officers, explain the problem and get reassigned. Have you tried that? Has your wife confessed her affair to her CO and asked to be reassigned in order to focus on her marriage? To be honest, I don't believe you are very serious about saving your marriage. I think you are more interested in avoiding conflict no matter what the cost. And that is your prerogative, it is your marriage to sqaunder. But don't say that we didn't warn you that half measures would avail you nothing. We have recovered our marriages, and we didn't do it by being complacent and timid.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
#1 it could be me trying to avoid conflict. But also trying to be realistic. She is literally 1 of a hand full of women. No opposite sex friendships means NO friendships. While i want to do everything possible to prevent the possibility of it occurring again it would be saying. "Spend the next 4 months, with no family around, no friends living in a 10ft-6ft room with no outside contact. That would be great. There is no "friend" that is worth your marriage, is there? That is all you are saying. You are saying that her social life takes precedence over your marriage. That attitude has not served you well, with one affair under your belt and another on the way. Placing such a low priority on protecting your marriage is likely to lead to other affairs. The basic issue here is that your marriage has NEVER recovered from the last affair, and as such, is headed for another one. See, if you get hit by a car by playing chicken, the solution is to get out of the street. Your wife is still playing in the street. Guess what is likely to happen........AGAIN? #2 is not possible to end for a few years, unless she goes AWOL. While this situation is a burden on the marriage ,a dishonorable discharge, after spending 1 1/2 to 2 years in jail, wouldn't help much. To be honest, I don't believe you are very serious about saving your marriage. I think you are more interested in avoiding conflict no matter what the cost. And that is your prerogative, it is your marriage to sqaunder. But don't say that we didn't warn you that half measures would avail you nothing. We have recovered our marriages, and we didn't do it by being complacent and timid. I'm that serious, don't know if she is.
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
[I'm that serious, don't know if she is. I know she is not. So the question becomes: are you willing to stay in a marriage that is headed for other affairs? Because that is where you are headed right now. If she won't commit to EPs and take steps to stop this overnight travel, you won't have a marriage you will have a long, slow death of a thousand cuts.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
update, it might give you some perspective to read this article about just compensation. This is what it takes to recover from an affair. Can't we Forgive and Forget?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
Small update.
Today she brought up that she wants to apply for a controlled tour, she saw.
Translation. 9-5 Mon-Fri. NO deployments or TDY's for (I.E. no going away) for 3 years.
Don't know if it's for the marriage or the kids. But either way it seems like a step in the right direction.
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Small update.
Today she brought up that she wants to apply for a controlled tour, she saw.
Translation. 9-5 Mon-Fri. NO deployments or TDY's for (I.E. no going away) for 3 years.
Don't know if it's for the marriage or the kids. But either way it seems like a step in the right direction. Bravo!! Told ya it could be done!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
Small update.
Today she brought up that she wants to apply for a controlled tour, she saw.
Translation. 9-5 Mon-Fri. NO deployments or TDY's for (I.E. no going away) for 3 years.
Don't know if it's for the marriage or the kids. But either way it seems like a step in the right direction. Bravo!! Told ya it could be done!! Well it's not done. She has to apply then get picked, but it is a teaching job and most pick her career field for the excitement of being out on the road, so i think she will not have much competition.
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Well it's not done. She has to apply then get picked, but it is a teaching job and most pick her career field for the excitement of being out on the road, so i think she will not have much competition. \ That is great. At least you have a chance to turn this around if you handle this correctly and raise the bar high enough to effect marital recovery. Are you prepared to do that?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589 |
Unloved8,
A teaching assignment sounds like a great start for recovering the marriage. My H and I are believers about how important more than 15 weekly hours of undivided attention is to recovering a marriage after an affair. We really felt it when we did not get that time together.
Now for my little raincloud... I don't want to be discouraging, but is there ANY chance that OM could also be assigned to the same location? I hope not. In the Army, even though there are many, many locations, there tends to be certain ones where people bump into each other. We used to talk about it "really being a little Army".
Have you read the book, "Surviving an Affair" yet? If not, I recommend you read it cover to cover before your wife gets home for her mid-tour break.
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
Unloved8,
A teaching assignment sounds like a great start for recovering the marriage. My H and I are believers about how important more than 15 weekly hours of undivided attention is to recovering a marriage after an affair. We really felt it when we did not get that time together.
Now for my little raincloud... I don't want to be discouraging, but is there ANY chance that OM could also be assigned to the same location? I hope not. In the Army, even though there are many, many locations, there tends to be certain ones where people bump into each other. We used to talk about it "really being a little Army".
Have you read the book, "Surviving an Affair" yet? If not, I recommend you read it cover to cover before your wife gets home for her mid-tour break.
AM No real chance. (there is always a chance) OM is a "weekend warrior" so he is assigned to the state. A different one. Haven't read that book yet. I'll have to check it out
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
She's coming home at the end of the week. Any last minute suggestions or advice?
Since i have no proof of an ongoing affair or new one should i steer clear of allegations?
If i do "half accuse" her it's a good lead in to laying down the rules.
I.E. "Honey, what's the difference in your new friends and OM? You didn't go to OM seeking out an affair but fell into it due to the circumstances.As such I need you to remove those circumstances to prevent another one from occurring.
However if she thinks i'm suspicious and something is going on it will be harder for me to snoop.
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158 |
I would not say anything with out proof.
You could send an e-mail to the unit assigned to the reserve center. Most units have a web page with contact e-mails. Just say that you are trying to find someone you were stationed with named <rank> OM's <full name>. They should give you the unit conus address that he is assigned to.
Last edited by Cypress; 05/29/11 05:12 PM.
Me DH 39 WW 45 EA/PA LTR DD2 6 yrs old Divorced 2000
Cypress I believe God challenges us with every crisis. Its more than just choosing good over evil, we have to learn and grow along the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589 |
Unloved,
Here are my thoughts:
Read the book, "Surviving an Affair" before she gets home.
Get a VAR(s) and place in car(s).
Install a keylogger on all computers.
Prepare all phones to track calls.
Do not let her go out of state with children/without you.
Have a good time on her leave. Do all the things the two of you liked to do when you first met. Hire babysitters and have as much alone time as you can cram in.
Even without an A, it always took some time for my H and I to "re-integrate" after deployment or prolonged temporary duty.
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 158 |
Very good ideas Armymama!
Last edited by Cypress; 05/29/11 05:37 PM.
Me DH 39 WW 45 EA/PA LTR DD2 6 yrs old Divorced 2000
Cypress I believe God challenges us with every crisis. Its more than just choosing good over evil, we have to learn and grow along the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
Unloved,
Here are my thoughts:
Read the book, "Surviving an Affair" before she gets home. How big is the book. Got 2 days between payday and picking her up. Get a VAR(s) and place in car(s).
Install a keylogger on all computers.
Prepare all phones to track calls.
Do not let her go out of state with children/without you. Key logger for her computer if she brings it home. I'm sure she will. But one on the home computer? It sits in the living room. Don't know how to track calls but she can't call overseas anyway.Not on our plan. Which i think i'll cancel internet on the phone. That way if she needs to talk to them it will be through messenger on one of the computers. Maybe i'll put some free ones on the computers at home in case she forgets hers. Have a good time on her leave. Do all the things the two of you liked to do when you first met. Hire babysitters and have as much alone time as you can cram in.
Even without an A, it always took some time for my H and I to "re-integrate" after deployment or prolonged temporary duty.
AM That's the plan. Just worried because she is sooo adamant about going to to counseling and i fear no matter how much i fill her love bank (assuming i can break in) the therapy will take make withdrawals
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589 |
The book is a pretty easy read. It tracks two couples - one with a husband having an EA and another couple where the wife is having a very entrenched physical affair. I ended up reading the book more than one time and always got something more out of it each time.
Our phone plan allowed me to look at the phone information online. It shows texts, calls, the numbers and locations called. the time of the call etc. There should be phone information on the operation investigate forum. Take a look over there.
Re. the counseling. My guess would be your wife wants a chance to unload on you and show how everything is your fault. Perhaps she wants to go so she can rationalize that she is doing the right thing.
Do you have a counselor lined up already? Are you going to a counselor associated with the military? My H and I were very fortunate because I insisted on counseling (not knowing at the time that it is useless, even harmful, during the active part of an affair. We went four days after d-day.) and we were referred to an excellent counselor through Military Onesource. Definitely look for a counselor who is familiar with Marriagebuilder's principles. Dr. Harley has worked with the military quite a bit and there are counselors familar with the program. There is an article on here about how to find a good counselor. If it seems as if you are stuck with a run of the mill counselor, see if you can delay the appointment until after she has to return. Many of military counselors have pretty full schedules.
Did I misunderstand earliers posts? I thought OM had returned to his home. Is he still overseas or are you suspecting an additional OM?
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 72 |
She said she wants to do counseling because she fears it will get worse. Maybe i'm naive but i really think she wants to work on it.
Got a counselor lined up through military one source but with the holiday weekend i haven't had the opportunity to speak with them and ask the important questions.
"What is your success rate"?
"How do you feel about marriage vs divorce" About rebuilding love etc.
I believe there is a list to ask on this site.
I've been thinking if we "have" to do it though going through family support center instead,(don't know what it's called the the army) for their counseling because they focus only on military problems and because i think much stems from the separation they will be more likely to address it properly.
She became really distant after seeing me because "it wasn't anything special" as she put it. But from speaking with others who have gone through deployments (this is her first big one) it's fairly normal to to feel weird about the "stranger" in the home for a while. She doesn't know this type of stuff, and maybe they can explain it to her better.
I'm fairly certain the 1 i know of is over (and yes he is back in the states). I worry, don't know if im being paranoid or just cautions, that another will develop or could be developing there in Korea.
Me: BH
Her: ongoing PA/EA
Married 8 years
3 children 2,6,7.
Plan B, maybe D.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I would ask:
"do you know how to save marriages?"
"what is your plan to save marriages?"
"do you believe that romantic love can be restored to a marriage?"
"what is your plan to acheive that?"
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
502
guests, and
108
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,524
Members72,037
| |
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
|
|
|
|
