I am new here and most assuredly new to this situation. I appreciate any help that I can get. I found out April 9 that WH impregnated OW. Child due in November. He believes it is his. He cannot decide his best course of action. We have been married for 17 years with 2 COM. I dont know if he ended affair but she went back to other city she came from and he went over 1900 miles away, with intention to move me and COM there when he is employed and situated. But, since he has left he will not talk to me about this matter, and I am in the dark about ANYTHING. I am so tired of all this and want to move on, but I really dont know how he feels about anything. He says he loves us both and cannot decide what he wants to do.

I'm sorry you have found yourself in this situation Izzy. Please read everything you can about MB principles, these threads, the book "Surviving an Affair" and stay strong.

I'm not sure what COM is, that acronym must have gotten by me. Either way, how old are your kids? I'm not sure I understand his location situation -- is his location near OW's location, and is that where he wants to move you? Does OW have proof of fatherhood? It would be terrible to go through this nightmare on just a "hunch" and find out later it was some other man's baby. Not to be rude, but the nasty slotmachine is shagging another woman's husband, who knows who else she's doing.

From a wayward mind perspective I think I can safely say that he may think he loves you both (probably not), but he definitely knows what he wants to do: he wants to have his cake and eat it too; you would be part of the harem.

opt

Very new to forums and not sure how to operate some things. My belief was COM meant children of marraige. When I can figure this out I relate my story. I think when reality hit (the pregnancy) he came to his senses and moved far away. I found this site trying to find a way to tell our children (most assuredly AFTER dna test!)Our children are 16 and 11, she is in the same state as I, he moved 1900 miles away. But, as I said, he doesnt seem to want to commit to me, simply telling me "We will get through this" Meanwhile, he seems to be suffering effects of withdrawal. I have been pouring over this site, reading for hours! It seems that I have done everything totally wrong, and I mean everything.

And I havent figured out how to manipulate this post to allow me to write more . . .

When reality hit, he didn't come to his senses...he RAN AWAY.

He is moving you and the kids (and himself) to CONTROL the situation.

He is not in withdrawl...he is IN CONTACT. Do not doubt that he is probably telling you exactly what he is telling her...he'll move you out, get you settled and then leave.

TRUST.

Lived it. It got me an OC#2.

Thank you to all who have responded. I know he is in contact with her and I feel so tortured. I dont know what to do and to date have done everything WRONG! I have read plan A and B but have not yet implemented anything. My physical state has become such that I am not much good for anything, and I do want to work on our marriage. At this point, tho, he doesnt seem to want to talk about it anymore, even to the point of flat out ignoring me when I ask questions.

And I have wondered that very same, that he is telling her the same. The reason I say that is when he first told her he was going away, she had the gall to text me and say "Im pregnant. Leave my man alone!" Her man? Really? she also text a few other things. But since she left I have not heard a word, prompting me to think he was telling her same. I have told him if he intends to move her out I will not go, also it occurred to me that we would get out there and he would go back. So very very confused.

First of all, can you handle this woman in your life for a long time?

Because whether there is contact or not, if you stay with this man and this child is proven to be his, you will have to deal with her...whether you two decide NC or not.

If you decide you do want to keep him, then you'll have to gauge whether or not he'll stand for NC with a child he made or if you could stay with a man that would do that to his own kid.

If you do decide to have contact with the child, then there will ALWAYS be a chance he and OW will stir things back up.

Regardless of my outcome now, I advocate NC now. It'd spared a ton of grief in my life if I'd put my foot down one way (leaving or NC) or another long ago.

I wouldn't wish the he11 I went through on ANYONE ever. OCDD is 8 now and while we've been recovered for some time now, my nightmares and insomnia still haven't stopped.

I'm sorry Izzy, but this gets uglier by the minute.

First. Take care of yourself, do you hear me? You must take care of yourself.

Nothing you do today or tomorrow or the next day is going to change a whole lot. Take some time, breathe, read. Think. Pray. Gather your resources. Take inventory. Count up your friends. And then read some more, breathe. And think about Izzy. Take care of Izzy because NObody else is going to do it.

Don't worry that you've done things wrong to this point. Don't worry. You're here now. There are plans to follow so you can save Izzy and your children from this very Toxic, Toxic, Toxic situation.

-------------------------------------

Moving forward, I would treat this as a straight up affair. With the POSSIBILITY that there is an OC. You're husband of 17 years is screwing a skank ho who has decided she owns him. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with this man?

It's YOUR choice Izzy. Your husband has lost his right to have any decision about this marriage. He gave that away. What does Izzy want?


opt

Izzy,

I am sorry that you have ended up in this situation too. My COM were 16 and 7 when I discovered the A and OC. The OC is not your WH's until official DNA proves it so. There were at least two other men that could have been the father of OC in our case (including her BS).

I found this site 2 years after Dday. Don't worry about doing anything wrong. Your WS is the one that has done wrong. It doesn't matter one bit one you contributed to the M state. What matters is that he didn't protect the M vows, he crossed the line, and everyone gets to suffer the consequences of his behavior, him, you, your COM, the OW, and the OC....IF it is his.

So he moved across the country and you don't really know if he is currently living with her or not. You can assume that he is definitely in C with her. As long as you two are apart and he is in C, you will not recover your M.

We are 6 years NC with OW and OC. She doesn't really care because this was a planned seduction/pregnancy on her part. She gets her Oc and her CS, she is happy. NC allows the M to heal. The time until OW has the OC and proves DNA is your WS is the time for the two of you to be focusing on rebuilding and recovering a stronger M. Your WS has run out on you and your COM. You need to decide. Do you want to fight for your M? What are your rules? What can you live with? What can you not live with? POJA is an absolute. My need was absolutely NC with OW, ever. (The courts don't always allow that to take place). The POJA was that he agreed that we would be NC with OC. That the least harm he could do to the most people (BS, COM, OC) was NC. The OC wasn't going to do great with 2 parents splitting visitation that weren't allowed/wouldn't speak to each other, and the COM, BS, and the M would do much much better without C.

Search your heart and soul. What do you want?

Walking the road of recovery with NC! Proud to be here surviving and thriving!!

Fled

Most excellent advice, Opt and Fled.

I was an absolute puddle for a long time after I found out, Izzy...and that is one of the things I am most ashamed of regarding MY behavior.

You MUST take care of yourself and your COM FIRST...everything else can wait.

I hear ya D. After the first PA my now-ex had we did 8 years of pseudo recovery. To our credit we did some things right, but overall you just can't follow a path to true recovery without a roadmap. You eventually get back into the natural behaviors that lead to the affair in the first place (mostly lack of boundaries, on the parts of both spouses with the BS having lack of boundaries to protect themselves). When the second EA started blossoming I fell into the non-confrontational "what did I do wrong to make this happen" trap; I even believed the moron IC we had at the time who said that the Affair was just a symptom of a larger problem (funny, I had the same problem-a bad marriage- but I wasn't in love with my nieghbor...what's wrong with this picture). For the first 3 months I did the begging pleading door-mat, waiting-for-the-whole-thing-to-go-away routine and I cringe to think of how little my self-respect must have been at the time. MB helped me learn that I had done nothing wrong and that I'm worth a better marriage, either to my now-ex, if she could pull herself together (she couldn't), or to someone who would love and protect me as I had learned to do for myself.


Izzy. I read your other posts. Sometimes what I do is type a big post in a Word document and then cut and paste it to the window here (and do I have some loooooooong posts, lol).

I'm still interested in how old you and your COM's are. I'm guessing in your 30's.
I've been thinking a lot about your situation. You need to be assured that nobody here will try to make any decisions for you, we just don't do that. We don't know hardly anything about your previous life, or what kind of relationship you've had with your now-WH. Or what kind of love you have/had for him. We can tell a little about you but not really much. We have, however, been down these roads, as you can see. Our experience can guide you; others have guided us, and that's why we're still around. Me, I just want to help others as I've been helped; my life would be back to the drama-filled spinning-out-of-control lonely mess that it was before without MB and good folks here telling me things I didn't want to hear.

Keep in mind that while MB can and has brought marriages back from the absolute brink of destruction (yes, worse than your situation), it is NOT a marriage-at-all-costs website. Some relationships are toxic and harmful to the participants (usually one more than the other). Remember that adultery is emotional abuse. That is the reason I'm not married now. I always knew my M wasn't ideal, but I would always tell myself I would never leave UNLESS I was being abused. Now-exWW didn't appear to have any intention of losing her boyfriends, regardless of how I felt about them. I couldn't continue to set an example for my kids that it was okay for one person in a relationship to dictate to the other how THEY should FEEL about something that affected everyone.

I know you're thinking about how you want to proceed. I encourage you to think long and hard about this decision. Go with what's in your true heart of hearts. Talk to friends and family, listen but remember the decision is yours (lots of people think they will be helping you by making up your mind for you- it's human nature). Talk to a priest/pastor. Pray. Talk to your kids. Don't worry about your WH's "reputation" and all that non-sense, he made his decision to drag your heart through hell; he doesn't ALSO get the right to put a gag-order on you. We have a saying here: "one can choose their actions, but they do not get the option of also choosing the consequences to those actions." [If he calls from his remote hideout to ask why you're "airing his dirty laundry"' or some other such whiney crap, just tell him you're "spreading the good news. " In reality you're simply trying to get help, and you can no longer count on him for that help; and you can tell him that, it's the absolute truth. He's abandon you in every conceivable way.]

opt

opt,

izzy, I am so sorry you are here. You are in a huge mess and I completely sympathize. My first suggestion would be to hire an attorney and get legal protection so you and your children are protected financially.

Secondly, I would find out as much as possible about the OW and expose this affair wide and far. Tell your kids, family, everyone. Affairs thrive on secrecy so bringing it out into the open will impede the fantasy.

If you do decide to stay with your H, it would have to be under the condition that he NEVER contact the OW in any way, shape or form again. That is NOT NEGOTIABLE. If he stays in contact with his OC, visitation would have to be facilitated through a intermediary. And you will have to first decide if you can even live with him having any contact with the OC at all. I would not. The point is that your marriage has to come first and you must set it up in that way.

Please follow Dr Harley's advice. First listen to this radio clip: radio clip about pregnancy from an affair

And Dr Harley's post:

Can you hire a PI to tail him? You really need to know what he is doing. They are pricey but I bet you could get the goods in a couple of days.

Thank you all. I so appreciate your words, support and encouragement. I have been trying to decide what I want to do. I cannot imagine a life without him, I mean we had our retirement planned, for gosh sakes!! I know she is still in my state, she went home to her mom. He is living in his vehicle out of state. I talk to him daily I know she is not with him, at this point. Let me explain this: shortly before he met her, we had separated with both of us agreeing to "work on ourselves and reconcile". We separated because I found out he was texting a female and he lied to me about it. Said it was ..... (males name). But he was acting strangely with his phone, even sleeping on it. One time, when he rolled over, I took it and read messages. Felt horrible about it, huge invasion, all that. All texts were deleted except last one, "sweet dreams". What guy texts another guy that? So I texted number and found out it was a female. I explained we were working on our marriage, blah, blah. She backed off and went away. Because of his lying, I kicked him out. After we had been separated a few weeks (he moved into a barely habitable house and lived free off a relative).Then he met her. She was from another town, visiting. She stayed with him one week, all the while I was throwing fits, demanding she leave or else kind of crap. To no avail. She left, went back to her city, quit her job, came back, and moved in with him, all in 2 weeks. I did not handle it well. The 6 months they were living together I saw him mostly daily. At certain times he would tell me he wanted to come home but couldnt. She is a cutter, bulimic, alcoholic, and it would devastate her. When they found out about pregnancy, and then he told me, I was very understanding. Said we could have OC in our life. It was an innocent in all this, after all. He always led me to believe we would get back together. Since he has left the state, 3 weeks now. he has been avoiding all my questions about this situation, maintaining his plan he would move me and COM there soon.

I cannot bring myself to talk to anyone about this. Discovering this site and forum has been a life saver for me. Last night I forced the issue (dont know if that was right or wrong, just tired of the pain). Told him to choose. He would not do it. That was very disheartening to me. With yall's support and encouragement I am beginning to feel some inner strength coming back. I told him that I simply could not do this anymore and that I was giving up on him and our marriage. He showed remorse (he always has)for this situation, and blames me for kicking him out. But still, he refused to make a choice.

Result of that? Guess I am moving on. It is much easier on me not having to see him every day. Dont know how it will end. I dont feel strong enough to implement plan B. I feel we were in plan A for 6 months. But honestly, I am just plain tired of being so miserable and unhappy.

With what you described above, I agree you should go into Plan B. Your marriage could conceivably recover, but never under these conditions. Spending the nights apart has all but destroyed your marriage. It has made your husband vulnerable to affairs. In your Plan B letter, I would make that a condition of reconciliation: that you never spend the night apart again AND that he never have any contact again with the OW and that he commit to a program of recovery. For life. If he would be willing to meet those conditions, you have a chance to turn this around.

Iz, you won't get much better advice than that from Melody Lane. I would heed it with as much strength as possible, as you gain that strength. She's seen thousands of these situations, she knows what works and what doesn't. She's concise but every word means something, so her posts are, like, 5x more powerful.

In the meantime, a couple things jumped out at me:
You know this is the type of thinking that allows affairs to flourish, right? I'm saying that from both the perspective of a betrayed AND a wayward spouse. You, in fact, have every right and responsibility to know exactly what is going on in your marriage. Your husband had at that time proven that he was not a reliable source of truthful information, that's when it became TOTALLY OKAY to look at the phone he was sleeping on, to keep vital information from you. [it's amazing how you see the same things in all these threads. My wxw took her phone everywhere including to bed with her, I had to recon it while she was in the shower, ugh].

You are a very caring and compassionate person. However, I think you had no idea what you were really getting into by inviting the OC (and to some extent the OW) into your life...I made a similar mistake at first. After I busted the OM's face, I went through some delusional period where I thought we could all just get along. Fortunately I came to my senses and got him to sign a legal NC agreement and haven't heard from that POC since. I would not be a healthy person if I had gone with my original gut instinct.

So if you hadn't kicked him out he wouldn't have gotten a skank-ho pregnant? MmmmmmmKay.
You can't wait for your Wayward husband to make any decisions for you about your life. Why would you do that? The man's decision making capabilities are clearly not reliable. You give him a choice to come back after he has met your conditions and proven he is worthy of your love, get it, Izzy? Otherwise you are in for a lifetime of further hurt and agony, possibly including more OC's as others have pointed out in their own lives. Waywards always choose the same thing anyway -- BOTH! So you will be waiting until pigs drive city buses.
If you can't talk about it, that's okay for now. It is probably so overwhelming you can scarcely organize your thoughts. Just don't refrain from talking in order to protect your wayward husband; he deserves no such protection, nor would that help him AT ALL -- eventually the full force of consequences of his actions must fall flat in his lap. You WILL feel better if you get some of this out though. I like priests, cause they're sworn to secrecy, but that's just me.
In the meantime, continue to read some threads here. Forget about the OC possibility, just go to the SAA board. See that you are so NOT alone. There are tons of affairs happening out there right now, sadly. Dr. Harley has developed an approach to dealing with affairs that is healthy for the BS -- even if one can't save their marriage, they can save themselves by understanding the anatomy of affairs and the process by which they happen. You can come out of this a better Izzy, but you have to work hard.

You'll gain the strength gradually through understanding how things work; doing the hard work I mentioned above. It takes time. And you were probably NOT in Plan A. You don't do Plan A by accident. I thought the same thing when I first got here. I was in Plan No-confrontation, thinking by being "nice" my ww would magically pull her head out and come back to me. It doesn't work that way. I was just setting up more conditions for my now ExWW to feel comfortable continuing her little party of life with the neighbor(s).

You should definitely read Surviving an Affair. Look for it at the library. It will give you a good overall picture of how affairs work and make you feel not so alone; maybe give you a sense of control. I also still feel like you don't have to rush a decision on how to proceed (in spite of your WH's urgency -- let him simmer, it's about you now). Read, think, talk, post, read some more.... then decide what you want to do.

opt

Melody, sadly I do not believe he wants me anymore. He told me today that he truly loves two women and that it didn't matter what HE wanted, he wanted to make the best decision for ALL involved. But I really cant conceive this. We have been married 17 years, he has known her 6 months. He has 2 children with me, she became pregnant when he worked nights. She is younger that he and very pretty, and I feel his ego is bloated by this. Nevermind she seems unstable as crap. She gave him VD for cripes sake (discovered at first OB appt). He said to me today "She is a really, really good person". Based on this, I think they are both unstable, and living in fantasy land, and should have each other. But, of course, I still do love him, crazy as that seems. So, anyway, not sure if Plan A or Plan B will even work. And I am not sure if he cares if he even talks to me.

Opt, I cried a little when I read your words. Deep down, I really do feel as you say, but I am so confused and alone right now. He WAS my best friend. I dont know what to do with myself anymore.

He really did not like me pushing him about a choice. It made him very very angry at me. I myself cant believe this is the same man I married. Couldnt believe he let her move in. Or took her to his family's Thanksgiving and Christmas (and leaving our children at home). I really DONT LIKE HIM AT ALL right now, yet I still desperately want him back. What is wrong with me? And I KNOW if he calls or texts I will jump at the phone. I cannot help myself, like I have no control at all. And I am so TIRED OF IT ALL!! I am even tired of me, who cant seem to eat, or go out in public without crying, or looking at me ring finger and sobbing my heart out.

I am really in a bad place right now.

--I'm not answering for Mel, I just want to address a couple things. You understand that people ALWAYS "Affair Down," right? That means this skank has nothing on you. Obviously she has not a shred of decency and looks only go skin deep. Sounds to me that's exactly where it ends with this one. There is no doubt about it, you're a better woman and don't you forget it Izz.
You'll see from other threads and reading here (and Surviving an Affair book) that we don't consider waywards as real people. They are humans taken over by an alien brain. They are not logical or intelligent. They are acting under the influence of very powerful drugs produced in their brains and wayyyyyy out of balance at this time.


--This is why you need to read others' stories, when you are ready. You are feeling EXACTLY the same as all of us who have been through this. We wanted our old lives back, we wanted the whole thing to go away and have time move back to just before our WS's shacked up with their OP's. You were in love with this man when you married him. That's good. That's a gift you can always share with your children - that they were born in a stable and loving environment surrounded by the best of intentions. Unfortunately that no longer exists, and it's not because of anything you did or didn't do, or because of anything they did or didn't do. It just poof disappeared. Life is like that sometimes. As melody said, you can fall in love with your husband again, it may be possible. For now I still say you have time to truly search your soul to find out if you WANT to try. However, whatever work you put into the situation (Plan A, Plan B, or just educating yourself first and then acting accordingly) WILL pay off. You will feel better eventually.
--you have the luxury of time, because your WH has already gone off the deep end with his AP. I had to rush exposure, Plan A and all that because my Ww was in an a (suspected) EA and I had to move before it went to PA which would have been that much more difficult to undo.


I also think it would help you to read other threads to find out exactly what Plan A is for and what Plan B is for. They always work; you just have to understand what they are designed for. Basically, Plan A is to present to your WH the best possible you and show him what life will be like if he comes back; it hardly ever works by itself because of what I said above - they can't even put a thought together. Then Plan B starts and you cut off all communication. It's a wake-up call for WS's AND a chance for the Betrayed to lose the triggers that are causing so much pain (like how you say you feel better not having him around as much).

During my Plan A I slayed some personal demons (quit drinking, quit using porn, quit losing my temper...stuff like that). Didn't have much affect on my nowExww, but I'm a better person for it and a better parent. I established new habits and I'm much easier to get along with now, even for myself. I never was able to pull off a full Plan B, but there are some great examples on the SAA boards. Scotland has been in Plan B for going on 2 years I think. She is incredible. We on these boards have watched her metamorphosize from a young, scared, betrayed mother of 3 to a Powerhouse of self-confidence and an authority on MB concepts. We might not always save our marriages around here, but with hard work, introspection, lots of crying, supporting each other, and time, we definitely get to a better place.

opt