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Markos, if it gives you any comfort, it's just as hard to come out the other way.
AO isn't my biggest issue. It is sacrifice that gives way to dishonesty (by omission most of the time).
It is silence, and shouldering everything silently, until the only route left is withdrawal.
During this process, FWW has encouraged AO, because at least I would talk.
Did. not. work. AO is not who I am.
Working on being more O&H.
I suspect that you could do the same, and preempt the AO.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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markos, my H and I were discussing AOs just last week. He still has them. I used to have them MIGHTY BAD, but have changed my ways, going on two years now. Anyway, after a particularly ugly bout of his AO, he clearly felt bad. He asked me, "How did you stop? I know I still make you mad sometimes, so how, HOW did you go from being a psycho with your head spinning [hehe...I knew what he meant, no offense taken] to just...calm?"
I told him, "I just decided that I didn't want to be that person anymore."
He hasn't had an AO since then, so I tell you the same:
You CAN decide to just simply not be that person anymore. This is pretty much how I got control of my AOs. Something Dr. Phil said once YEARS ago really affected me...he said, 'it is a life decision. Just like you say to yourself, 'I'm never going to rob a bank', you also say to yourself, 'I won't lose control of my tempr.' A life decision.
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markos, my H and I were discussing AOs just last week. He still has them. I used to have them MIGHTY BAD, but have changed my ways, going on two years now. Anyway, after a particularly ugly bout of his AO, he clearly felt bad. He asked me, "How did you stop? I know I still make you mad sometimes, so how, HOW did you go from being a psycho with your head spinning [hehe...I knew what he meant, no offense taken] to just...calm?"
I told him, "I just decided that I didn't want to be that person anymore."
He hasn't had an AO since then, so I tell you the same:
You CAN decide to just simply not be that person anymore. This is pretty much how I got control of my AOs. Something Dr. Phil said once YEARS ago really affected me...he said, 'it is a life decision. Just like you say to yourself, 'I'm never going to rob a bank', you also say to yourself, 'I won't lose control of my tempr.' A life decision. I worked toward that decision in the 7th grade. However, it was in an ineffective way; bottling. Work in progress...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Wow HHH, that sounds just like our dynamic. My hubby also always bottles things up and sometimes the only way I feel I could get him to speak to me was to get him really angry. Then far from hating him for his angry outburst I just feel grateful for the honesty because then at least I have a plan.
He has also worked on being more open a lot and I have worked on being more approachable and not doing my own love busters in response to his honesty but yes we're still a work in progress.
Me: 32
H: 35
Married 9 years, together 12.
Two little girls, 7 and 3.
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I agree with those that said just quit. AOs, DJs can all be quite suddenly if you decide you're tired of engaging in them.
Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)
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See below
Last edited by Arpeggi; 04/16/11 10:46 AM. Reason: Consolidated into one post
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Yeah, I have to agree with the majority here. AOs (ESPECIALLY ones that escalate into physical abuse) just have to stop. Whatever it takes. Abuse (emotional or physical) is as unacceptable as having an affair - even the Bible gives grounds for D if physical violence is involved - so perhaps looking at it from that perspective would be of use. Think of these AOs as they are: just as destructive and unacceptable as an affair. Perhaps that will help you. I don't believe I have been physically violent to Prisca in three years, and then only two episodes when I put my hands on her. I don't know the severity of what "put my hands on her" means, but this is an ominous statement, in part because of the qualifier "only" before stating you instigated domestic abuse twice. It DID sound, in the rest of your post, like you're taking the issue very seriously, which is good. AOs that have a history (however small) of ending in physical domestic abuse only lead to jail or worse. I'm hoping that by understanding and seeing the severity of this matter, it will help inspire you to place extreme emphasis on this issue. Nothing is more important in your life right now. Best wishes, Arpeggi
Last edited by Arpeggi; 04/16/11 10:50 AM. Reason: Consolidated into one post
Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.
Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Markos, what I found here was a total change in thinking! That a marriage is where both folks work together for both folks to share all the things that are special and meaningful to them  The good news is that that's not a change in thinking for me at all. I entered marriage with that kind of thinking. Unfortunately, my wife did not, and years of trying to communicate to her that we should do this and that it can work (and by work I mean make her ecstatically happy, not to mention me) have been unsuccessful. Do you have a mentor IRL? Yes, I do. I have a male friend who listens to all of my problems and provides reams of encouragement and emotional support. He has seen me through some very tough times and I know I can rely on him in the future. I know that even if I had to "make do with less," he could support me well enough to survive. But I want to do more than survive. I want everything Dr. Harley promises a marriage can have. What do you think about calling the Harleys as a marriage coach? That is my preferred course of action right now. But my wife does not want to do that at all. Okay, so you were hurt how she closed the conversation. Actually, if you look at the Four Guidelines to Successful Negotiation, each person gets the safety to table the discussion. I want her to have that safety. But she always makes tabling the discussion a love buster, and always attempts to make it permanent. I want to hear "I'm sorry, but I'm too upset to go on right now [or even I'm sorry but YOU'RE too upset for us to go on right now]; can we put this aside for now and talk about it tomorrow [or next week ... some rough time commitment]" and then see the commitment followed up on. We have a list of problems we need to deal with. She will say or do nearly anything to avoid dealing with them. But using the Basic COncepts, you two can make these conversations ones that will make deposits instead of withdrawals. Yep, I know that.  Dying for that to happen!!! Will do anything to bring that about!!! I need to show my wife that this can happen, and how wonderful it can be. Do you Have His Needs Her Needs? Yes, we have his and her copies, and probably an extra or two somewhere. And: Love Busters (his and her copies) HNHN for Parents HNHN for Parents DVD course (I think that's the title) and the Love Busters and His Needs Her Needs study kits/audio CDs I am a big fan of Dr. Harley's teachings! Also have: 5 love languages 5 love languages of apology Everybody Wins: Chapman guide to solving conflicts without arguing Love and Respect Cracking the Communication Code But Dr. Harley's instruction is my model for how I think about marriage. Maybe she's just frustrated that you two aren't further along in that direction, but as you two start making progress together, that feeling will be replaced. Sounds great! I just wish I could convince her that is possible! It's not a selfish demand, it's a thoughtful request, to ask her to keep a commitment. but if she's no longer enthusiastic about it, then it's time to renegotiate it, find something that both of you are enthusiastic about today. I'm willing to do that. But she's not willing to negotiate. I think she truly doesn't understand. She's not willing to try to understand my perspective on issues, and she's not willing to brainstorm solutions (she responds by simply declaring things are hopeless). I think she simply doesn't know how to. And she doesn't know that it can work. It is a DJ to tell her that there's something wrong with her behavior. I think you'll get a lot further telling her you'd like to see an outside counselor yourself, than trying to push her through the door. If the only way she responds to that is unenthusiastically, though, then I should not do it because of the policy of joint agreement, right? As you get more familiar with the Basic Concepts, and get to know us here, you'll see there is a lot one partner can do to restore the love to a marriage. And that's the key. Once she's back in love with you, she'll love to talk with you, work things out with you, all of it. Looking forward to it ... and looking forward to the day when my wife is looking forward to it! Are you certain you aren't actually me?
Married 15 years
12 y/o DD
10 y/o DS
6 y/o DD
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I certainly was full of Disrespectful Judgments, wasn't I? I couldn't even get past the thread title without being disrespectful.
Translation: "I'm doing everything I know how to do, and it's all her fault!"
Turns out this attitude wasn't attractive to my wife at all, for some reason.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I certainly was full of Disrespectful Judgments, wasn't I? I couldn't even get past the thread title without being disrespectful.
Translation: "I'm doing everything I know how to do, and it's all her fault!"
Turns out this attitude wasn't attractive to my wife at all, for some reason. I seriously just laughed out loud in my office just now. Well I gotta tell ya, she seems pretty sweet and caring now, so are you. This makes me feel really good.
Married 15 years
12 y/o DD
10 y/o DS
6 y/o DD
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She certainly treats me better than I deserve!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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She certainly treats me better than I deserve! 
Me - 46
Wife - 43
2 x DD
Married 18 yrs - known each other for 22 yrs
Woke up 12/2009 and realized I was an idiot for neglecting my WIFE!
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Last week: 17 December 14 last year UA time:
Last week: 8.25
Week before: 7.5
Week before: 21.5
Week before: 13.5
Week before: 11
Week before: 14.5
Week before: 9
Week before: 6.5
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Last week: 17 December 14 last year UA time:
Last week: 8.25
Week before: 7.5
Week before: 21.5
Week before: 13.5
Week before: 11
Week before: 14.5
Week before: 9
Week before: 6.5 Well done my friend.
Married 15 years
12 y/o DD
10 y/o DS
6 y/o DD
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Markos, if it gives you any comfort, it's just as hard to come out the other way.
AO isn't my biggest issue. It is sacrifice that gives way to dishonesty (by omission most of the time).
It is silence, and shouldering everything silently, until the only route left is withdrawal.
During this process, FWW has encouraged AO, because at least I would talk.
Did. not. work. AO is not who I am.
Working on being more O&H.
I suspect that you could do the same, and preempt the AO. Wow this really resonates HHH. I remained silent and "stewed" quite a bit, not to punish my wife, but just to avoid rejection maybe? I'm not really sure but it felt like a defense mechanism. My heart and mind told me, "it is time to shut down." The silence was dishonest. I never expressed how I felt until I hit a point where my emotions and feelings no longer could be contained inside me. More often than not, that would lead to DJ's, SD's, and AO's. My wife knew how to press those buttons, not to pick a fight mind you, but rather to say, "For the love of Pete, talk to me Hill!" I don't blame her. I don't know how long you withdrew, was it for hours, days, weeks, months, permanently? I know in my case I'm not good at that so I'd only remain withdrawn for a day or two tops before I'd find a reason to make up and keep the peace. I don't like conflict so even if the conversation was mundane, as long as we didn't DJ each other, at least we could sit in civility in the same room together.
Married 15 years
12 y/o DD
10 y/o DS
6 y/o DD
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Last week: 15 It would have been more, but Saturday night our two year old had some respiratory distress and spent the evening crying in our room. Thank goodness we'd already been spending time together and weren't dependent on that night. We also had a real live date Friday night, with Prisca's mother babysitting. Went out for seafood and a romantic drive through the countryside. I heard a Marriage Builders radio broadcast last week where someone who sent in an email commented that they had sixty-six weeks worth of UA time data recorded. I hope that'll be us in about 64 weeks. By the way, Prisca's very enthusiastic about this post, and she's sitting right here next to me reminding me to do it. Last week: 17 December 14 last year UA time:
Last week: 8.25
Week before: 7.5
Week before: 21.5
Week before: 13.5
Week before: 11
Week before: 14.5
Week before: 9
Week before: 6.5
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Markos took off work today to help me clean the house since I am feeling sick and was up all night with sick kids. What a man.  Thought I'd brag on him a little bit
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Last week: 14. Oops. More sick kids. However, this week we still have sick kids and have been doing great towards our target. I had my last anger management session this week. Prisca has said a lot of good things to me about my progress on this front. I will go back any time she asks. We switched awhile back from love busters lessons to emotional needs lessons; wrapping up Conversation this week and hoping to move on to Affection next week. So a lot of positive things have been happening. Last week: 15 Last week: 17 December 14 last year UA time:
Last week: 8.25
Week before: 7.5
Week before: 21.5
Week before: 13.5
Week before: 11
Week before: 14.5
Week before: 9
Week before: 6.5
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Markos, if it gives you any comfort, it's just as hard to come out the other way.
AO isn't my biggest issue. It is sacrifice that gives way to dishonesty (by omission most of the time).
It is silence, and shouldering everything silently, until the only route left is withdrawal.
During this process, FWW has encouraged AO, because at least I would talk.
Did. not. work. AO is not who I am.
Working on being more O&H.
I suspect that you could do the same, and preempt the AO. Wow this really resonates HHH. I remained silent and "stewed" quite a bit, not to punish my wife, but just to avoid rejection maybe? I'm not really sure but it felt like a defense mechanism. My heart and mind told me, "it is time to shut down." The silence was dishonest. I never expressed how I felt until I hit a point where my emotions and feelings no longer could be contained inside me. More often than not, that would lead to DJ's, SD's, and AO's. My wife knew how to press those buttons, not to pick a fight mind you, but rather to say, "For the love of Pete, talk to me Hill!" I don't blame her. I don't know how long you withdrew, was it for hours, days, weeks, months, permanently? I know in my case I'm not good at that so I'd only remain withdrawn for a day or two tops before I'd find a reason to make up and keep the peace. I don't like conflict so even if the conversation was mundane, as long as we didn't DJ each other, at least we could sit in civility in the same room together. Sorry dude, overlooked this. Um... I withdrew for 2 years. Coming out of that withdrawal was D-Day. Also, while it is gracious of you to protect your wife, love busters are love busters, whether you call it "button pushing" or not, or whatever her motivation. And, when you have someone in withdrawal, lovebusting them isn't going to bring them out. FWW tried to get my attention by lovebusting me, and all it did was drive me deeper into withdrawal. My bad habits taught my wife bad habits taught me bad habits.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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