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Looked at one way, you're off the nail, WPG. You're not cheating any longer. Of course, nails will leave a mark, or a hole sometimes, and that takes time to stop bleeding & scab over, no matter that we're not on the nail anymore. If it weren't so for you, you wouldn't be normal.

Looked at another way, your husband has a nail wound too, and that wound doesn't automatically disappear just because it's been awhile since you let go of the hammer that was driving that nail. I know he doesn't give you much chance to tend to that wound these days, but you can only do what you can do.

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Whew! That's an awful lot of tortured logic to arrive at the moral of the story! I'm not too sure about this part:
Quote:
But we are so often trained as kids to try to fix things for the complaining persons.
That was never my experience. Maybe others are taught that way.

But I'm with the guy on this part:
Quote:
Responsibility rests in the complainer.

Then I got tripped up on this departure from the last quote:
Quote:
the wise thing to do is to help make their pain more intense.


Good if it worked for you, though, wulffpack_girl. smile

Sorry for the t/j. smile


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I don't know, GO, lately I feel like I am still on a nail. Certainly not the same nail I was on when I was cheating, but a nail nevertheless. I got up and moved around on that porch and then on 12/30/10 I plopped myself back down on another nail.

So, for example, I cry out in pain every time I get back in bed with my H and he leaves.

I don't know...I spent a lot of time yesterday reading old posts on the board. I found a few posts from wives - both FWW and BW - that continued to have SF with their STBXH's. One of the reasons given was they hoped that they were meeting an EN of their H's, and that would bring them back to the M. There weren't many, granted...but from looking at sig lines, all appeared to have ended up divorced.

I'm having SF with a man who claims to have no emotional connection to me.

Now, the more time that lapses between me seeing H, or in particular being with him intimately, the better I am at looking at the sitch objectively. Being with him, and him ultimately leaving, leaves me with fresh feelings of rejection and throws me off balance for a few days. He's been out of town on business since Monday, so no family dinners, no random emails or text "booty calls."

I woke up devastated this morning. Know why? Because last week when he left after bringing the kids home, he said he would probably go back to the hotel Thursday after his class and sleep, and drive during the night...then he'd come home to sleep and pick the kids up at school. I realized that all week I've been playing that in the back of my mind, thinking that home meant, well, home, and that he'd be there, in the bed, when I woke up this morning.

Stupid me.

I've told myself that what I am modeling for my girls is a committment to my M, that despite my failure and despite how much I hurt H, that I'm showing them that love is worth fighting for, and that it is worth it to rise above your failings and seek restoration and redemption.

But the flip side of that is what kind of M am I modeling for my girls? The pre-A M had problems, sure, that H and I were equally responsible for. Poor communication. Failure to meet each others' needs. And I definitely don't want them emulating the wife and mother I modeled for them during the A. But what am I modeling now? That a part time M is OK? That it's OK for Mommy and Daddy to disappear into a room together for a while, and then Daddy leaves and Mommy gets sad?

What I have right now is not what I want in life, in a M. I want a passionate, romantic M with my H. No one else. I know what we can be together. THAT is what I want the chance to model for my girls. But what I've got now? I don't want to be his "friend with benefits." I want all of him. And I would love nothing more than to help H tend to the wound I gave him.

Yes, he meets some of my needs, I can't deny that. FS, some DS, and some FC. But he's rarely, if ever, hitting on my intimate EN's. Even when we are having SF, I've got the knowledge percolating in the back of my mind of what he said to me, that the SF was "just to meet a need. Nothing more." It's physically satisfying but emotionally empty. Sort of like eating a Twinkie.

It is ironic when you think about it - how WS's try to justify having A's b/c of unmet EN's, when what's really at fault is having weak boundaries. Here I am getting none of those intimate EN's met and having an A is the furthest thing from my mind. The difference? Boundaries.

But am I kidding myself? Is it time to realistically look at the sitch, take an objective and realistic look at the M pre-A, and let go? I'm tired, folks. I love him more than anything, but I'm just tired.


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Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
Whew! That's an awful lot of tortured logic to arrive at the moral of the story! I'm not too sure about this part:
Quote:
But we are so often trained as kids to try to fix things for the complaining persons.
That was never my experience. Maybe others are taught that way.


I've always been a "fixer," MB, I suppose, and I've been in a situation that I can't "fix." It took me a while to realize it, though!

Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
But I'm with the guy on this part:
Quote:
Responsibility rests in the complainer.


Yep. We can control ourselves, we can control our actions, and no one else. It took me a while to get that, too!

Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
Then I got tripped up on this departure from the last quote:
Quote:
the wise thing to do is to help make their pain more intense.


Yeah, maybe that works from a therapy standpoint? To give someone who is "stuck" on a nail more of an incentive to move?

Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
Sorry for the t/j. smile


No problemo! laugh


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WPG,

When I read your posts, I can't help getting a feeling that he sounds a bit like a cake eating wayward.

I don't know what your marriage was like pre A but I know what mine was like. My BH will agree that he wanted all the benefits but not much of the responsibility. Sure he provided FS and, very limited DS (but he was always just "helping" me). He never cheated, (at least not physically) but he was big in IB...would go "do his thing" and kind of expect us (kids and I) to be there when he returned.

After my A, he has gotten angry and frustrated sometimes at what is expected of him in a marriage where I am in love with him. I still feel uncomfortable requesting anything but perhaps his own guilt or some well meaning friends pointed out to him that being away more than home wasn't helping our marriage.

I never blamed him for my A. But I did let him know that I had been in withdrawl.

The A was the fault of poor boundaries. The withdrawl was the fault of neglect and my avoiding confrontation.

Luckily, my husband is still living with me but he is using my A to allow himself some independant behavior. So far, I am having a hard time knowing how/where to draw the line.

You are having the same problem. I agree need meeting is paramount. I think you should absolutely meet those you can...BUT....the way things are now is like my pre affair marriage....he gets SF, FC and does things like DS WHEN THE MOOD SUITS but it is nothing you can count on.

I do not think you will have another affair...your boundaries are too strong BUT...somethings gotta give. Don't wait till you get mad and love bust or sink into a deeper depression. Listen to your feelings and make a change.

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Quote:
Yeah, maybe that works from a therapy standpoint? To give someone who is "stuck" on a nail more of an incentive to move?
Dunno. I'm not a therapist smile That statement just sounded like it's being assumed that we know what's best for the person 'stuck on the nail.' I think that's a tricky assumption to make.

And I've just got to ask, using the old man/dog construct of the story: why the heck doesn't the dog's owner go find out for sure what's wrong with his dog instead of just assuming the dog's stuck on a nail?? Maybe it's something that is easily corrected that isn't a nail at all? Again, tortured logic. laugh


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That's where I thought you were headed w/ that nail story, WPG -- wondering if you need to do something to get off the "nail" that your recovery has become.

I don't have any advice, really. I think I as well as several other posters have advocated having that good ol' heart to heart w/ your BH, and I am going to go with that right now as the best course of action...

Oh, and FTR, I understand your worries about what kind of M you're modeling for your girls right now, but (at least in my head laugh ) those worries won't come to fruition. I think they will see just how seriously you take your commitment to your marriage. You messed up, you still believe in the marriage and healing it (and your BH), and you're taking the steps that are available to you now to do that. Sure, it may not be perfect, but it's still a right thing to do, KWIM? At least, IMVHO. smile

Last edited by Mrs_Vanilla; 05/27/11 12:35 PM. Reason: clarification

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Just my unprofessional, unqualified opinion, WPG, but I would say; "working as intended."

I think it's easily forgotten what the underside of the whole Plan A/Plan B setup is; that if it is unsuccessful, you will no longer love your spouse when it is done.

As for Plan B; we know that it is not on the table, and should remain so unless directly told by an actual MB coach or professional.

And Plan A? Well, WPG, you are growing in leaps and bounds. Yes, it stings that you are getting nothing in return from your BH, but that IS PART OF WHAT PLAN A IS. Avoiding LB's and meeting needs with no expectations.

Focus on your goal, focus on not having any expectations.

Let him choose you, and do what you can to make yourself the best choice available.

... meh, what do I know?


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WPG:

I would say no more SF until you feel that he has started to open up to you. His pride will not let him forgive you, and he is still trying to punish you for his hurt. Let him miss you a bit; do not be so quick to fill his every need because his Taker is so active right now. After a few days, ask him how he thinks you two can recover, and listen carefully to what he says.

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HHH: What about the prescribed duration for plan A? Dr Harley has stated it to be a couple of weeks for a woman. WPG has been doing it now for months. MONTHS.

IDK... It is sometimes so hard to read your thread, WPG. I really admire your strength. I am quite sure I would not be able to pull off anything like this for such a long period. I wonder how you can still hold up. I hope you can. But I don't think you should bleed to death, because from here, it kind of looks that way.

I agree with Sunnydaze (esp concerning the cake eating). Have you thought about giving good Dr and Mrs another call re Plan B in your sitch?

I'm rooting for you so bad it brings tears into my eyes... (it does not happen often)

{{{WPG}}}

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Originally Posted By: coloradogirl
WPG:

I would say no more SF until you feel that he has started to open up to you. His pride will not let him forgive you, and he is still trying to punish you for his hurt. Let him miss you a bit; do not be so quick to fill his every need because his Taker is so active right now. After a few days, ask him how he thinks you two can recover, and listen carefully to what he says.
coloradogirl, have you read the concepts of this site? The one thing they SHOULD be doing at this point is SF. She should not be playing games with her husband by withholding sex!

Please read the concepts and articles on this site prior to posting. And please post your story for us. Thanks!


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Marital you and I see eye to eye virtually all the time, but is she supposed to do that at the cost of her own self respect?


Just saying it wouldn't kill me to spend the night, take her out, treat her right - just like you would in any relationship. As a BH who learned his lesson I have this bucket of cold water for the dude just sitting here waiting.

BTW TJ - my wife is reading heavily on the site. Expect her to maybe start reading in here. If she posts I will be looking for you! You're the best.

End TJ


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Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
Originally Posted By: coloradogirl
WPG:

I would say no more SF until you feel that he has started to open up to you. His pride will not let him forgive you, and he is still trying to punish you for his hurt. Let him miss you a bit; do not be so quick to fill his every need because his Taker is so active right now. After a few days, ask him how he thinks you two can recover, and listen carefully to what he says.
coloradogirl, have you read the concepts of this site? The one thing they SHOULD be doing at this point is SF. She should not be playing games with her husband by withholding sex!

Please read the concepts and articles on this site prior to posting. And please post your story for us. Thanks!


Thank you, mb, because really? Didn't we just do this? And on this very thread? faint


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@ sunny - you know, sometimes I do feel like he's "cake eating." He's riding the fence, maybe. Dunno what, if anything, I can do to push him off (hopefully to land on the side I am hoping for!). I also withdrew from him pre-A...honestly if it had not been for the OM, we'd probably still be doing the same dance - I'd withdraw, eventually he'd pull me back in by meeting my needs here and there, that would stop, I'd withdraw again. Where I failed was stupidity in not setting boundaries against an ex. I had boundaries with everyone else, but didn't with that loser. H's IB pre-A was mostly financial IB, which we worked on initially but after full disclosure he went back to more IB. In a sense, we also have our pre-A M with the one exception that we're not living under the same roof.

The man still drives me crazy. He's sexy as h377, he's funny, he's smart...He can still make my stomach do flip-flops and my heart race.

The whole "Plan A/B" subject has come up on this thread before. Honestly, when I coached with JC she did mention Plan B as a possibility, but recommended it only if I was coached through it and at the time (Sept-Oct of last year?) she was saying 6 months out. But at the time, H hadn't left yet, and I think that was sort of a game-changer. Dr. H weighed in on this thread a while back and said he would not recommend Plan B in this case, it would be like punishing the BS. He did also say that SF should be mutually enjoyable.

I'm not saying that SF is not enjoyable...H is very good in bed, always has been. And he still makes sure I am, uhm...satisfied with the outcome.

It's just those d@mn expectations that are so hard to shake.

Went for a run this morning with one of my girlfriends (geez, she's in marathon training, and I am really out of shape, this time last year I was running 7 miles and I can barely do 2 now!!!). She asked me if I was still having SF w/H and I said yeah...she said, "Is that getting you what you want?"

H377 I don't know. I know my friends and my family are looking out for me, and even though my mom says what she most wants is for us to be happy, together and under one roof, I get the feeling everyone thinks I am nuts for hanging on this long. Mrs. V, you were posting on another thread (to neverknewyou) about how your family ended up supporting you rather than the M, and that your relationship w/them now is distant...I don't want that, yet I am a little afraid of that happening.

We did sort of have a date tonight. He texted me and asked if I wanted to get some dinner and he came and picked me up, and we went out to eat. No R talk. Came back to the house and watched one of "our" shows together on the DVR. It's a start. It's a long way from "I'm not coming to the house as long as YOU'RE there" from January.

I cry more than my share of tears, but I'll tell you honest, thinking about being with him tonight has had me smiling...OK, I smile, then cry, then smile again...lol...I want him by my side all the time. I've made my choice. I'll wait for him to make his.

How long will I wait? I dunno. I haven't made that decision yet, and I'm not ready to do so. Yes, I do think about it. I know whatever I decide I'll be OK.

I am getting better. No real side-effects from stopping the AD's. I am getting back into my hobbies and working out. Still don't have a lot of heart for work right now, but I think there's other factors at play there that just make work a stressful place right now. And really, today was a good day.

And yes, I know I need to have a talk with him at some point. I'll be honest, I'm afraid. I said before, I kind of feel like he's a wild animal and I'm trying to get him to take food from my hand. If I get too aggressive, I'm going to scare him off. Or he may attack me...and I don't know that I can handle that right now.

Thank you sunny, sparkler, coloradogirl, HHH, MB, Mrs. V, Reynolds, ETC for your posts and support!

PS Reynolds I will be looking for your W - hope to see her post soon!


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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
We did sort of have a date tonight. He texted me and asked if I wanted to get some dinner and he came and picked me up, and we went out to eat. No R talk. Came back to the house and watched one of "our" shows together on the DVR. It's a start. It's a long way from "I'm not coming to the house as long as YOU'RE there" from January.



STOP!

Right here!

Cot damnit, WPG, don't you see THIS?

Hello?

Baby. Steps.

Why push R talk? He asked you for the pleasure of your company, you complied.

Did you have a good time?

Keep THIS up! OMG... OMG, OMG, OMG.

Jebus, girl. What would you have thought about this a month ago? Two months?

Muzzle that taker, and keep allowing these moments to happen!

It's these little moments that are going to do it!


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Let me tell you something I learned this week the very hard way - take all the time you want and spend the time and money you have on pursuing what you want, 'cause tomorrow might be our last day. My closest, dearest friend and roommate in Winston very suddenly passed away. She was childless, and divorced from her WH. She pursued alienation of affection suits against him (and won), but judging by some things I've found and read around the house, I believe that she would have rather reconciled and he would, too. Their pride got in the way, and she died alone, with her cats, few friends, and her pride.

Keep up the fight, and I hope your DH comes to his senses. Your sitch always brings tears to my eyes and tonight your update has brought me a bit of joy.


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I agree with HHH, I think this is a baby step, and your husband is the one who had the plan.
I think if things go well and you two just have fun together, he could fall in love with you again..........
He is scared of course he is.........but he might be re-thinking.......always look good, smell good and just be happy go lucky around him.........let him fall and hard...........don't push......just enjoy.........
I am hopeful for you, it is just taking longer than most.............
jessi


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Hi WPG,

I'm happy to hear that things are looking up. It does seem like things are getting better, very, very slowly but better than nothing or worse taking steps back. Hopefully things continue in the direction you've been wanting. Good luck and keep taking care of yourself, your home and your girls.


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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
We did sort of have a date tonight. He texted me and asked if I wanted to get some dinner and he came and picked me up, and we went out to eat. No R talk. Came back to the house and watched one of "our" shows together on the DVR. It's a start. It's a long way from "I'm not coming to the house as long as YOU'RE there" from January.



STOP!

Right here!

Cot damnit, WPG, don't you see THIS?

Hello?

Baby. Steps.

Why push R talk? He asked you for the pleasure of your company, you complied.

Did you have a good time?

Keep THIS up! OMG... OMG, OMG, OMG.

Jebus, girl. What would you have thought about this a month ago? Two months?

Muzzle that taker, and keep allowing these moments to happen!

It's these little moments that are going to do it!


Absolutely agree w/ HHH!

WPG, this is a GREAT update from you! hurray

Last edited by Mrs_Vanilla; 05/29/11 08:46 AM. Reason: re-worded

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WPG, WOW. IMO, the fact your BH asked you on a date is AWESOME.

The other day I mentioned that R talk; however, given your update, I think it's a good plan to hold off on that R talk for now. In light of this positive development, I would see if you can use the LB$ deposits from that to give you some more energy to keep working your Plan A.

Also, a more tricky part, but HUGELY important: No expectations. The recovery rollercoaster is aptly named, and I notice that the lows are always worse with my expectations after the highs. Try to keep those expectations under control and just enjoy this latest step in the journey.


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