Blues: I know what your going thru is hard and painful for you.. I had to let you know that everytime I read something you have written, I can't help but smile, sometimes giggle, for you have quite the sense of humor :-) I think that may help you in the long run. I can tell you are a decent guy, and I hope that happiness comes your way real soon, you deserve it.

Mornin all,<P>Well let's see where do I start?<BR>Had busy day yesterday, it really kept my mind off things. Was once again promised my massagelast night but it fell short....consisted of just a little "touching" on my lower back. I must admit though, it was just nice to feel her touching me again. Geez, that almost sounds as if I was the betrayer!??? Well soon after our son fell asleep, she started hinting around again about wanting to fool around. She took a shower, put on a spagetti string belly shirt that just drives me nuts... and a pair of silk thongs (why do they call em a pair? there's one one..????) gave me a deep kiss, shut off the TV, took my hand and led me to the bedroom. There I got ready and climbed into bed while she was still getting ready in the bathroom. THis took all of 5 minutes. Now there I was in "full" antisipation (sp?...it's Monday morning) she turns out the light and gets in bed, snuggles up to me, kissing me, rubbing me.......AND THEN SAYS GOODNIGHT! Rolls over and falls asleep! Oh you wanna talk about being a bit p.o.'d, I was it! I sat up, rolled her over and said "what the hell just happened? I thought we were going to.....oh forget it! No more! Got up and slept on the couch. And you girls wonder why us guys get on the Net at late hours... She came out and apologized saying she just became very tired all of a sudden. Blah, blah, blah. Well she then suggested that tonight we both get everything done as early as possible, get our son in bed by 8:00, and then we'd go to bed at 8:00 and do our best to mess up the sheets. At 8:00 she won't be so tired. We'll see.........<P>Other than the frustation of no sex, we talked for a bit yesterday too abbout where I stood and felt about the baby. She was listing possible names and asked me which ones I thought were good. At first I got a bit hurt and told her I didn't want any part of nameing another man's child, that would be something she'd have to do on her own. BUt then I told her I realize I should help and try to do what I can to make this a happy occasion if possible. She told me not to worry and if I didn't want anything to do with it I have that right and she'd understand. She also stated that she'd like to have me stay with her atleast until after the baby comes, after that then we can decide what we're gonna do. She's also calling tomorrow to set up yet another counseling session, this time with the pastor of her new church. This I don't think will go to well but I'll see what happens.<P>Till then folks, I hope I can keep you all smiling. Humour is a thing I learned long ago to help me deal with pain and nerves.

Oh, Blues man! I just stumbled onto this thread, and I'm thoroughly amazed that you're still here. Here's my humble opinion on matters...<P>I want so much to believe Lucks' version of your wife's motivation. That taking you to the restaurant, suggesting a tumble, and so on were ways for her to show you she still cares. I hope that Lucks' right.<P>My take on it? After reading your last post on this thread, I tend to see a more vicious motivation. If your representations are accurate, then it sounds like she's out to hurt you. At the very least, she's out to set you up for as big a fall as she can. Yes, she's pregnant and quickly tires. I've been there. But to build you up then just roll over and go to sleep? That sounds more like a power trip: I can visualize the smirk on her face, "Hah! That'll show him." I would think that if her overtures were pure and sincere in intent, she would give you some warning that she's fatigued. Even just a, "Sorry. I thought I could make it through this but I'm just getting too sleepy. Let's pick it up later." Something!<P>Maybe Lucks' IS right. Maybe your W is really trying and is just incredibly naive and insensitive to the messages she's sending. I hope she's right. Because the alternative--that your W knows exactly what she's doing and is using you as a means of providing medical insurance coverage during her pregnancy and perhaps even relying on you to assist her with her bodily aches and pains--is just too callous to consider.<P>I, by the way, am a betrayed W. So I must confess to having little compassion for your W, the betrayer. I'm sure you've already searched your heart to uncover what YOU contributed to the environment that made an affair possible.<P>I wish you well, Blues. BTW, Marisa Tomei fell for Robert Downey, Jr. in whatever-the-name-of-that-movie-was. Forget her. You'd be better served by putting your energy into your marriage and/or your son. Fantasies will only drain away feelings and focus that "real" people in your life desperately need right now.<P>------------------<BR>"Some women wait for something to change and nothing does change so they change themselves." Audre Lorde<BR>

Morning Blues, ok, I've been thinking (could be dangerous). Have you asked any questions about who the father is going to be on the birth certificate. Be careful, if you are listed and she leaves, you get the child support. Just think about it. I'm a little confused (not so unusual for me)are the two of you trying to save your marriage? Is she still with the om? I just don't feel that she is truely trying. Be careful, you have already been hurt and I would hate to see you get hurt again. Some women know exactly how to play a man, I of course would like to think that your wife wouldn't do that, but some would. She very well may be using you, please just keep that in mind. You know I do want your marriage to work, got my finger crossed for you. Keep smiling!

Hey there Glad, as it stands right now we are gonna list the OM on the B.C., pending the test results she's gonna take him to court and sue for child support. She, like me feels I shouldn't have to support this child. The only downfall is that if he's making child support payments, he might want visitation. If my wife and I work things out and stay together, that's something that'll have to be dealt with. I will NOT leave the 2 of them alone. For I know how easily she can be tempted and give in. But also too, the chances of him asking for visitation will be very slim. Why you ask? Because we will be living a good 1600+ miles away from him and now that he'll have 3 newborns, a 8 yr old daughter and a possible ex-wife to support, he'd have a hard time paying for the travel and I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay for it.. I won't be listed for the very reason you mention. Plus, I feel the actual father should be listed for medical reasons if ever needed and by all means the child should be able to choose whether or not they ever want to know who he is. Your next question.....I'm at this point tired of trying to save the marriage. It's been all me, she isn't trying one bit on the marriage. She keeps saying she's going to but as usual, she falls short. Who knows it could be that she is figureing I will leave once the test results come back, who knows, I just might. No, she's not with OM anymore. Not in person at least, I have no way of knowing if she's been in contact with him by phone from work or over e-mail. If she is, there'll be no question as to where this marriage will be. I do kinda wonder if she is in fact using me. Afterall she knows just what buttons to push and when, she knows how forgiving I am and I know she uses that. but that's also my fault as it is hers. For all I know she's just trying to keep me close enough to get what she can outta me and then it'll be bye-bye. As it is right now I've taken steps to protect certain things but my emotions can't be protected as you know. If she was to pull off something like that, she'd have a very hard time seeing her son once we're divorced....that would tear her up too much. We'll see how things go tonight. I know if I bring up the affair, it'll ruin the night as far as the sex would go. But that dept has been pretty poor of past. I wish I could get her to loosen up a bit in the bedroom with me. That's what hurts, I know how "wild" she was with him, why won't she do that with me? Oh, well....if tonight doesn't cut it, it'll pretty much be over on that front. What's the sense? I just assume go without it if it's gonna be so damn poor. Geez, I could do better with my hand.. <BR>Ok, we're getting a bit too personal... <BR>I don't care to do that unless we're ina private chat room or over our personal e-mails.

Blues, ok, I didn't realize that the om was so far away. I thought he was still around. 3 Newborns? Help me on this one, how many ow does the om have? Ok, lets say the two of you (or at least you for now) are trying to save this marriage, have you tried to see what she needs? What did the om do that you aren't doing. She is full of it if she keeps saying its the size. There is much more to it than that. You are right, bringing up the affair right before being intimate is not the answer. Thank goodness on that front, my H and I didn't have that problem. I'm glad you are thinking straight about the baby. When will you have the test results? I know you are being as careful as you can, but you are right the feelings can and never seem to be protected. The good thing about all of this is you in your heart will always know that you have tried. That is something to be proud of.

Blues,<BR>Just a few "loose ends" that I'm unclear on. Forgive me if I'm redundant; I may have missed something.<P>You mention that visitation shouldn't be an issue since you'll be 1600 miles away by then. Can you do that? I know that these laws vary from state to state, but when I was researching visitation and custody issues at the time of my separation from my H, moving out of state was a definite no-no. I have no clue how the laws would apply in a situation as screwy as this one. (No offense, Blues. Truly. I just can't imagine how you cope with so much! You make my H's series of infidelities look like a Sunday picnic compared to your troubles!)<P>Best of luck. Stay true to YOU.<P>------------------<BR>"Some women wait for something to change and nothing does change so they change themselves." Audre Lorde<BR>

You are much stronger than your think. What you are feeling is very normal for what you have been through. Keep standing tall. You haven't lost your sence of humor.<P>------------------<BR>Give to the world the best you have, and the best will come back to you.<BR>* Viki

Mornin all!<P>Well, lastnight was fun! I must admit, she was in rare form when she got home from work. We were laughing and playing around, if you were a fly on the wall you'd have thought we were just married. We didn't get everything done on time like we had planned so by the time we got to bed for our adult fun, we were 1.5 hrs behind. No big deal. Granted, it wasn't what I had expected or hoped for (maybe I'm setting my sights to high?) but we did make love for the first time in a very long time! I won't go into details but I will say that once again she was pampered during what little foreplay there was...I got nothing in that department.. This morning, it was still evident as far as her attitude towards me. She followed me to the door, gave me a deep kiss and a strong hug then as I turned to leave she spanked my butt!... <BR>Hmmm, maybe 2 nights in a row?... Oh did I ever tell you's that she stated there would be a limit on our sex life if we worked things out? Yep, we'd only do it on average of once per week or 4 times in a month - tops! I told her that's grounds for divorce right there... <P>Glad, yes he's got 3 newborns on the way. He's married with an 8 yr old daughter, while he was telling my wife he was gonna leave his wife, he was actually trying to have a child with her and he succeeded, his wife is now pregnant with twins! She's due in November. My wife is due in February as I mentioned at the start of this thread. So in a matter of about 4 months this dirtbag is gonna go from a father of one to a father of 4! We've talked about the needs that weren't being met, the issues that could have caused the affair. It's come down to: Lack of communication, my religious views (note, mine, not her's, just mine are the wrong ones!), my job, since I work on a 'puter all day in an office, I really don't work, I can't build a house with my own 2 hands like her father does (he's a master carpenter), and my friends (they're all weird according to her). The OM is pretty much a carbon copy of her father, plus he's heavily into the same religion she is (a big plus for her), he likes the same music (top 40 and country....I'm into the Blues and modern rock...which she hates). That's about it. She claims she was never unhappy in the marriage, but that when she met him she saw fireworks and her knees buckled the first time they touched. She still hasn't been able to figure that out. She doesn't state that it was his "size" but she does or has suggested that was part of it all. The test is next week and the results take 2 weeks.<P>Faithfully, you bring up a good point and I may be totally ignorant on this but I look at it this way...and I'll stand toe to toe with any judge in the land on this issue....This man did all he could to pull my family apart. He knew just what strings to pull to get my wife. He showed utter disregard for my family, his family and his life. He has now forced upon my family to care for a child of his that he had no right bearing with my wife. I have moved my family 700 miles away from him in order to provide for them but will be moving yet again by next Summer in order to improve my family's wellbeing even more. We will be able to afford the children to be within minutes of Grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. A place where the school system is superior to most others in the country and I will once again be able to provide for my family and be home each and every night. There is no way anyone can convince or force me to live close to thie OM just to accomodate his travel expenses. That is NOT what is good for the children in this family and THAT is what your job is isn't it?<P>No, the last time I checked this is a free country and I'm able to live where I please. This guy has done enough damage to my family, I will not allow him to do anymore. <BR>After that's all said, the judge can throw me into the slammer, but then I'll ask him what good that will do for my children? They say you can't fight city hall? If that's what happens, you see me at city hall with my boxing gloves on... <BR>Of course, I need help getting down from my soapbox first... <BR>Actually I don't think it'll be a question at all. Law states that as long as we remain married, the child is by law considered ours but with child support in the mix...??? who knows? "Hello, is there a good lawyer in the house?"<P>Pondvj, thanks for the words of kindness. Yeah, I pretty much would like to work this out just to prove something to myself and others I guess. I want mostly to prove my worth to my wife, even if we don't stay together in the long run. I also want my son to know that his dad did all he could and therefore will have a model to build his own character on as I did with my father. I come from a very close knit Italian/Irish family, family is very important to us. Something that lacks in most of the world today. The humor, for me has always been a defence or crutch for me growing up. I learned to use it in difficult times. I learned to laugh at myself mainly for if you can't laugh at yourself, what can you laugh at?<P>Geez, that was another long one...I really should get some work done... Type at ya all'z later.<P>Blues<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Blues (edited August 24, 1999).]

Blues, glad to see it was a great night and morning for you. I wonder where you get your strength from, I honestly don't believe if my H had gotten the ow pregnant I would have stayed. It would have most likely been more than I could have handled. Anyway I'm glad the sun is shining on you today, the world is a much better place because of you. Someday I hope your wife will know that! Blues, why the restriction from your wife on how often you will be intimate? I don't get it. It seems as though she will have you on a schedule, kinda take the fun at of spur of the moment huh? Anyway so very very happy for you

Glad, <BR>good question. She claims she isn't interested in sex, that she'll do it just to please me cuz she knows "I need it". <P>See, that's just what I mean....when it seems like things will get better, they get worse.<BR>I can understand if she's not interested in me while she's having the affair. They were doing IT almost every freaking day in the back of her van!<P>I just don't get it. When it comes to sex these days and even before her affair, she's gotten to be a bit of a prude. She doesn't want to do this or she doesn't want to do that..."don't go down there", "I'm not doing that to you", etc. I'm not talking about wierd things, just normal foreplay. It just doesn't happen that often and if it does, it's me doing it all. My sex life sucks plain and simple! I'm not getting any younger either... Who knows, that may all change???<BR>It better...and not just on that issue.

Blues, Thanks for your honesty and I respect your answer about religion. Maybe good thing about her going to a Pastor, like I said he will (or should not condon her behavior). Her vows still stand!<BR>As far as your sex life, a little suggestion! I know as far as my H is concerned and coming from a women's perspective (mine of course), I like to be touched with out the expectation of sex, if it happens out of that great! But I find he touches me mostly expecting sex, that may not be you, but I thought I'd through that in there. Also one thing I'm wondering is if you are giving to much? Maybe she likes a challenge, try touching her and then walking away like you don't need it. I'm not sure if I'm expressing this clearly, but I know when my H pulls back it arouses my interrest, I then go towards him. Just a thought. <BR>Appreciate your sense of hummor and I admire your sense of duty to your family. You sound like a great guy. God Bless!<BR>Ginn<BR>

Hi all<P>I dont need to say anything here-you all are doing a real good job of keeping blues up beat :-))<P>I do have a question though. How do you all make those smiley faces? LOL-no i am not a blonde.<P>Let me know please-they make the replies brighter!!<P>

Heartache:<P>Check out the FAQ here: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/faq.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/faq.html</A> .<P>Blues---I don't want to hear you whining about your sex life...

Blues, I would like to think we're friends now right? So since we're friends let me give the whole sex thing to ya from a woman's point of view. I'm sure you are good in bed, but please tell me you don't ever approach your wife with "but I need it". Because that makes it sound as though YOU need it for pleasure not because You need your wife (emotionally). You need to take time with her, tell her why you love her, tell her how important she is, show her how thoughtful you can be. I'm sure, knowing you, you do all these things. So maybe she feels guilty, I would never want to be intimate with my H because I felt he needed it. I like being with him cause he drives me crazy, I love to feel his arms around me, touching me. Shoot, I better go take a cold shower..... You know what I'm trying to say, make her feel important, and I agree....don't make it a big deal, play it cool....it will drive her crazy.

Well thanks for telling me how to use those icons :-) I always go overboard and make more than one ) so that's why they don't turn into smiley faces-duh. I am so embarrassed :0<P>Thanks again

sheesh-now I have to learn to leave out the nose and not use the numbers huh? LOL-now I am really embarrassed <P>better luck next time maybe

Blues, This is too tough to read. <BR>She is manipulating you in the best way a woman knows how. Sex. Sorry ladies, its true. you never hear of a guy witholding sex to get what he wants. Don't let her manipulate you. Tough, but you need to stand your ground. you're going to have to distance yourself from her and wait til she comes to you for it. Withdraw. <BR>Another thought I had is what someone told me a long time ago when he was marvelling at the extrordinary beauty of my W. He said "A woman's beauty is exponentially porportional to the trouble she will cause you". I scoffed at such a concept. How can anything so absurd be so true? Well. I guess in this world of jabberwocky, it is true. <BR>Also, forget about Marrisa. She is the same trouble except she has money.<BR>I really feel for you and I really don't have any advice. She's on the extended stay plan in fantasyland.

*

BLUESSSSSSSS! Get a grip! oh man, 4 times a month, can you accept this? Is sex a duty to her, or does she enjoy it or not? Has she mentioned charging you for this too? Come on, she is using you as a doormat, and she is getting away with this! Does she or did she limit the number with her OM too? Bet not. Why with you? You deserve better than this! She is treating you like this because she gets away with it.. where does tough love come in on something like this. Your self esteem, self worth are at stake, and shes playing you! She is loving it. She had an affair, got pregnant by the OM... ( obviously didnt limit the number with him, hard to get pregnant that way ) and her husband is still around. she loves it, she thinks you are a sucker and can get away with anything.I cant be the only one here thinking this. Tell her you wont take this and move out, live a life without her, she will be snapped back to reality and kissing your feet. By then you will have met a new woman and will see what real love is about, and wont need HER. You deserve BETTER Blues, get it. Dont wait for her to change. Change your life, go be happy, life is short. Quit allowing her to do this to you. She will continue to do it until you take a stand and say no more.