I made my first post last night in MB101 to ask for help dealing with a horrible MIL. Things have changed and I think I belong on this forum now.

I will paste my first post here and then contiue the story...

I am dealing with a very difficult situation, and I could use some help and advice, and a WHOLE lot of prayer!

My hubby and I have been married a little over a year. We are both in our mid 40s and have children from previous marriages. (My kiddos live with us, his are college-aged.)

My marriage is truly a gift from GOD. We used Marriage Builders as a way to get to know each other when we were dating, we seldom fight or argue, and our sex life is great. My kids love him, and he's even friends with my ex husband!

Our problem is his mother.

I have never, ever, EVER been treated by anyone the way I have been (and continue to be) treated by his mother. I have NO idea how to handle it and how to support him.

My husband has been divorced for 11 years. It was a BAD divorce---not that any are good, but it was exceptionally brutal. He had a few rough years, did counseling through our church and has moved on past the issues of the divorce. His ex has remarried and it is seldom a topic of conversation in our house and he says it is not a constant presence in his mind.

His mother is a different story. She constantly brings up the divorce and how horrible it was, how badly he was treated, etc. (His dad goes along for the ride.)

It appears to be an effort to create discord in our relationship and the intent seems to be to 'warn' him that our marriage will end up the same way.

I am not sure what her issue is with me exactly. It seems to be centered around what I do for a living. I own my own business...and have been successful for more than 10 years. I work from home, in my pjs sometimes...and make a good, steady income.

I am blessed that owning my own business allows me to be essentially a full time mom to my two children (ages 10 and 13).

Her issue is twofold...and it flips depending on the day of the week or cycle of the moon....not sure which....either I am
a) very wealthy and will take ALL of his money
or
b) very poor and will take ALL of his money.

*(Please note...DH is 45, college educated with a white collar job. If I closed up shop tomorrow, nobody would starve to death.)

She has been horrid to my children, to the point that we no longer take them to her home, and I have not been to visit since Christmas. (They live about an hour away.)

My DH and I decided that distance might improve things, so he visits her on his own. BUT...when he comes home from a visit, I can tell that he has listened to hours of complaints.

On Tuesday of this week, I learned that she has been actively encouraging an old high school friend from my DH's hometown to persue him.

I knew that he had reconnected with an old friend (not flame) on Facebook and that they sometimes talked. HE thought he was helping someone he had known since he was 10 through a bad divorce. I was concerned that there was something else going on...from her end. We discussed it last fall, and he respected my wishes with regards to communication with this person. (My intuition was in overdrive, kinda like the robot in "LOST IN SPACE" that waves its arms and says "WARNING! WARNING!")

Anyway, we found out Tuesday that this woman was interviewing for jobs in our town, 200 miles from her home, because HIS mother had told her that HE was interested in her and that if she moved here, he was leaving me for her.

He is destroyed. This man is a Christian in the true sense of the word. We serve in our church, he is my best friend. I do not doubt him in the least, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why his mother would do this.

Needless to say, DH told the friend that he had NO intention of having any sort of relationship with her, and SHE apologized to me...and spilled the beans on his mom.

I do not know how to support him. My mother died 14 years ago, and my father passed 10 years ago. I cannot imagine how he must be feeling, and I don't know what to do.

*&&&

I am trying VERY hard to take the high road here. I talked to him again last night...or tonight..or whatever. It's 5AM on the East coast, and I have yet to go to bed.

Hubby supervises a factory on second shift, so he doesn't get home until about 11 pm. I spent the evening rereading much of the Marriage Builders EN's, and LB's....as I read, I came to the realization that I have done a poor job communicating what my Love Busters are...

When he came home, I asked him if he had any contact with this "friend". He said no.

Later I did something that I have never done before. I deliberately went into his iPhone and viewed his Facebook account. I read messages from various people dating back to 2009.

The contact with this "friend" last fall started off totally innocent, BUT a couple of times it, in my opinion, crossed the line. He never came out and said that he was interested in a relationship with her, but he never said BLATANTLY that he was not. I also discovered that he had met this woman for lunch in her hometown in September, shortly after they reconnected on Facebook. I knew about the day trip, but I did not know he saw her. He did not tell me about it at the time, and he did not tell me about it when I asked him yesterday if there was something that might have led her to thinking he was interested.

I sat in the bathroom with his phone for about an hour...read every message between them. Including when she asked him point blank if we were still together, (apparently the mother told her that we had separated, although he and MY kids are plastered all over my FB wall, and I am on his.) His response to her was, "Call me later and I will fill you in."

I am insanely furious. To me, this is an affair.

He has said he will not contact her again. That he will go to counseling with me and that he had no contact with her other than lunch. He says that he wants to 'fix' this and that he will do whatever it takes to do so.

I say he lied. I love him very much. But if he lied about this, what else has he lied about?

I have requested the following:

1. That he cut off all contact with this person. (I am going to message her myself in just a minute and ask her to not contact him.)

2. That he agree to go to counseling at our church or with a Christian therapist with regards to this issue.

3. That he scheudle a meeting with my MIL and FIL's pastor and inform him of what my MIL has done.

4. That he apologize and work with me on rebuilding my trust in him.

My MIL blocked me from her Facebook a week or so ago, but she neglected to block my best friend (who I am assuming she friended in order to spy on me.) When I went to her page from my BFF's page, I discovered that she and this woman have been VERY chatty and are planning weekend excursions together.

I am sick to my stomach.

I went back to my husband after I found out about this MIL/OW connection, and told him about it. 30 minutes ago he deleted the Facebook app from his iPhone and changed his password. VERY DISTURBING.

I want to save us, but I don't want to be destroyed in the process.

His mother is a freak and a nutjob. I realize that she has probably always been like that. But I don't know how I could have been so fooled.

Sorry you are here but welcome.

Yes, this was definitely an EA and if he took a day trip and met her and she was willing to move out here to be with him, well, I am also worried it could have gotten physical.

Your H's mother is definitely a problem but the bigger problem is your H ending this A and implementing ExtraOrdinary Precautions to ensure that contact doesn't resume. These are non-negotiable and if he balks at doing any of these steps, then he is not serious about ending his affair.

He should:
~ send a No Contact letter (we can post one for you)
~ close his FB account
~ change his email/phone number
~ be completely transparent, giving you all passwords and accounting for all of his time.

I am sorry you are here. Hang in there...

I would love a no contact letter. I contacted her and told her the following,

"I am going to ask you very courteously not to have any more contact of any kind with G. No phone calls, no emails, no texting, no Facebook posts, no private messages, no instant messages, NOTHING. I know about the dinner in September and I know about some of the inappropraite conversations last fall. I am not a bad person and I am most CERTAINLY not a [censored]. I think there's been some inappropriate behavior going on...and I am going to put a stop to it as best I can. If G and I can't work this out, I am sure his mother will let you know. But for now, I am asking you NICELY, not to communicate with him about your "landscaping" or anything else. I have been up all night and I am tired and cranky. If you would like to call me, my number is . I know your phone number and your texting number and I know your job. I don't think you're a bad person, I think you've gotten in the middle of a mess and, believe it or not, I've been in the same position. Ironically, before you replied to me on Tuesday, I was on the phone with a friend of mine who is a recruiter, working on finding you a job.
I believe our marriage can be saved and so does he.

From what I was able to see, he stopped the 'misbehavior' in September but continued to be friends with her. At this same time, she friended his mother on FB and started talking to her.

She was, at the time, also trying to reconcile with her now ex husband.

The moving here based, at least from the way the evidence reads, on my MIL's conversations with this woman.

There is no indication that they were physically intimate. She poured her heart out.

The day trip coincided with an event he had to attend. So I think it had a lot to do with opportunity, and it has NOT been repeated.

He is terrified.

And he should be.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, Martha Jane.

This is definitely an EA and is cruising on toward becoming a PA. It sounds like he likes the attention he is getting, but got cold feet when it become clear that OW was ready to go to the next level in their relationship. You need to intervene, definitely, because having cold feet doesn't last long.

If your H is truly committed to your M, his lack of transparency needs to end. I am concerned that he changed his password. I am concerned about the show of deactivating his FB account. He can reactivate his account in a heartbeat.

And it's very alarming that he wouldn't commit publicly about your M when OW asked him about it. He obviously told her that there are some 'problems' in your M as a way of encouraging her continued interest in him.

Sit down with your H and explain that there needs to be complete openness in your marriage. There is no place in a marriage for secret passwords and hidden accounts. That can come to no good. His response will tell you how committed to you he is. BTW, that goes both ways. Offer to give him your passwords as well.

Your letter to OW is good (I wouldn't be that nice to her, though - the wench is chasing a MARRIED MAN and as such doesn't deserve to be treated like a lady. She's NO LADY.) I'd lose some of the politeness and let her know in no uncertain terms that you will not permit a third party in your marriage.

Speaking of letters: your H needs to write a NC letter to the homewrecker. (The OW, not your MIL.) It needs to be read by you, approved by you, and sent to her by you. We have samples of NC letters on this site.

Your H is going to have to stand up to his mother. I'm sure he's got a spine back there. He needs to USE IT. There is to be NO bashing of his wife when he visits her. There is to be no matchmaking for her MARRIED SON. If she starts, he needs to get up and leave her house. It may be a matter of visiting via phone (with you in hearing range.)

And YOU need to start doing some government-level snooping, MJ. Without your H's knowledge. That's not a matter of being open & honest. Can you get a keylogger on his computer? Can you get back in to his cell phone? I would also suggest that you pick up a VAR and get it into his car. That's where a lot of affair conversations take place, while the affairees are driving and think they're alone and can't be heard.

I would suggest you get your snooping tools in place first, and then have a sit-down with him.

I agree with everything you said. And I will take it a step further. I would be JUST as angry if this had happened when we were dating, once we reached the committed stage.

The sad thing is...we talked about POJs and MB often. My first marriage ended when my ex suffered a head injury and became abusive. I was ooooh so careful with this one...at least I thought I was.

Can I get a VAR at Radio Shack?

Also, can someone post a link to the NC letters?

Thanks

And another question...he's sleeping now...I've not been to sleep.

How do I handle this when he gets up?

MarthaJane, I am so sorry you find yourself in this position. I want to suggest that you will likely have to take a much, much harder line with this OW. She is not ignorant about what she is doing. You are assuming she is an innocent party and I assure she is not. She knows he is married and she is actively sniffing around him.

I predict it will take much more than your email to run her off. I would go RIGHT NOW and make a copy of all her facebook friends and save them in a WORD doc for safekeeping. The next thing you should do is sneak a spy program on his cell phone like flexispy or mobilestealth. [go to our Operation Investigate forum]

I don't think this affair will blow over this easily.

Once you kill this affair, I would most definitely work on marital recovery, most especially the issue of his very destructive, nasty mother. Her intrusion into your marriage needs to be POJA'd. I will go find the article has on this very issue.

Dr Harley discusses how to use the POJA in matters involving relatives in this article: here. HOWEVER, I know that in other situations where the MIL was very destructive he actually told the couple to cut off contact for the time being. I think that is what he told board member, Markos, to do and I will ask him to post about this.

I agree.
#1. Kill the affair.

#2. Deal with MIL. I suggest you prepare the road by reading up on boundaries.


By this I mean, your H needs clear & well enforced boundaries with his mother. If he is too weak to do that, and he allows her to continually cross his boundary, then you need clear & well enforced boundaries ~~~> with him.

It is your H's job to protect your marriage from anyone in his family who would tear it up.

Wow, what a coincidence; I just drove into work listening to an old broadcast from Dr. Harley talking about his own family inlaw troubles. And the whole way I was musing about our issues.

We have inlaw troubles. Or, rather, Prisca has inlaw troubles. I have parent troubles. My parents are controlling and manipulative and extremely disrespectful towards Prisca.

But believe it or not we haven't talked about this situation to Dr. Harley. I just followed the Policy of Joint Agreement and the advice Dr. Harley gives about this situation in Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs For Parents. Since my parents would not acknowledge that their criticism was a problem, Prisca was no longer enthusiastic about seeing them, and so we don't. They haven't seen their grandchildren in over a year.

Dr. Harley certainly believes in married people having a good relationship with their parents and inlaws where possible, but like any other care for a person other than your spouse, Dr. Harley says these acts of care must meet with the Policy of Joint Agreement, i.e., be provided only with the enthusiasm of your spouse.

Dr. Harley and Joyce faced a situation similar to ours, early in their marriage. Dr. Harley's father was very offensive to Joyce! He eventually apologized for his behavior and the family was reconciled.

I take heart from some comments Dr. Harley made in his chapter on inlaw situations in Love Busters: in a story he tells, it took two years but some controlling inlaws finally saw the error of their ways and decided they valued a relationship with their daughter and son-in-law more than being right.

In-law troubles are one of the five major areas of conflict Dr. Harley identifies in marriage, and Love Busters has a great chapter on it, as does His Needs, Her Needs.

Here are some broadcasts by Dr. Harley on the subject:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=1506
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=1507

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=1073

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2264
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2265

What would the MIL argument be if she were here posting?

Why is your hubby not putting on the big boy pants and stepping up to Mom in your behalf if he knows she is out of line?

FYI, never trust the WS to tell you the truth about whether there has been contact. Unfortunately, with affairs, you have to assume there is still contact unless you can verify otherwise.

If his phone is not locked, I would slap flexispy on there ASAP.

MarthaJane, Welcome to MB and sorry you are here.

SusieQ, Mel, Bliss, and Markos have all given you a good heads-up regarding ending the EA (possible PA) between your husband and this OW. I won't comment on that except to say that they are right on, listen to them. They are experienced and knowledgeable about this and are rarely wrong.

As for the In-law situation, let me share a bit of my own story and a suggestion or two... We share many similarities and some differences....

My wife and I started dating in High School. He dad had been sober maybe 6 months when we started dating. He didn't like me. We have survived 2 affairs that my W had, one in 2001 and one in 07/08. I found out about both of them june 18th, 2008, It was a Wednesday at 5.30pm. The 1st person I called (6.00pm) was my MIL.

I remember calling her and her response was "honey I'm so sorry, I bet you're really sad. You know I had one too when G was little. We fixed it the night I told my H and have never talked about it again. We are praying for you, let us know if we can help". That night I found all her e-mails. 2 days later I sat and really read through everything in her secret email account.

I freaked out and called my FIL. Told him about it and asked "what if she picks him?" he responded that it would be uncomfortable but he would figure out a way for me to spend family holidays with her and the kids and the OM. I went in to panic mode. I just realized I had no support.

I called my wife (this is a week or less into DDay for me), and she said that I must have misunderstood. After we talked for a while, and I relayed the story, she was mad too! She was wanting to fix our marriage as well.

Long story short, we had an incident a few days later where my FIL had pushed my daughter down. We weren't there (on our way over), but my sister in law was. She flipped and a huge family fight ensued. We arrived and things were "ok", but SIL was not there. FIL was being a jerk and after a bit we decided to leave. SIL called and told us everything.. I mean everything. We had been married 18 years at this point. She told us how for years he would bad mouth me after we left family functions, complained for up to an hour at times. That I was bad for his DD and wished she would just leave me.


I called him and confronted him in what was to end up as a huge blow-out. It ended with me telling him to crawl under a rock and die. My W's SIL called again later to check on us and I found out more information.... He had been keeping a list of potential suiters for her at the "church" they were members at and had spoken with some of them and there was interest in her by them. My W was furious. Even in both her A's she never wanted anything long term with either guy. She wanted her M.

So we scheduled the 1st of 2 talks. the first one ended badly. We confronted her parents at their house and he admitted to everything and my W told him that he was hurting our M and was dangerous and could not see our children. She broke contact. he started yelling and screaming (I think in retrospect, he was drunk again) at her, not looking at me. I told him he would not speak to my wife that way and he better put his eyes on me or there would be problems. That seemed to cool his jets and we left after W explained there would be no contact. Through it all my MIL was totally passive.

She called later to try to explain to me that she knew about everything but what was she supposed to do. I told her to speak up and stand for what was right. We left the conversation there. Since our teenagers were involved, they asked to have a meeting with my inlaws about a week later. We relented, and invited them over.

Our kids sat down with the 4 of us (they were now aware of W's A) and began to tell in-laws how disappointed they were in them. that their behavior over the years was unacceptable and they would have no contact. He became abusive (again I think he was drunk) towards my children, and the event resulted in me chasing (yes chasing them) out of my house to their car.

Let me summarize the last 21 years of my marriage here... He has spoken ill of me (and the kids) behind our back for years. He has attempted to speak ill of my parents and family for years in front of me (didn't fly) and behind our backs. He admitted to actively working to break us up through the years, even to the point of finding men willing to court her. They were never concerned about her A's and even offered her an "out" if things got too bad with me. They did this for years.

So, I understand where you are coming from....

Now, as long as your MIL is in the picture, recovery of any type is going to be difficult. I am going to suggest something that MB has taught me and I think is wonderful...

Marriage builders principles, particularly the information on surviving and affair, is wonderfully applied to many situations. We found MB after I went through this, but let me tell you how I think it can be applied.

Surviving an affair is about overcoming lies, betrayal, and unloving actions by someone who you are supposed to trust, love and respect. All the elements of an affair (minus the sex) are present in what your mother in law is doing to you (AND YOUR HUSBAND). She is supposed to be working to promote your marriage, and a happy life between you. She is in essence like the OW.

My suggestion to you and your H is until you get to the point in your recovery you can address the problem is to have NO contact.

She is NOT safe for your Marriage and is an added stress you don't meed at this point. I would go so far as to suggest a no contact letter that is modified. Something to this effect (from your husband would be best).

Dear Mom,

I am married to Martha Jane. She is my wife and who I want to be married to. I choose her. What you are doing is destructive to our family and is not acceptable. For the immediate future, we are going to have no contact between either of us, or the kids. We are going to work on our marriage without interruption. I urge you to think about what you are doing and how destructive it is to our marriage. If you cannot work with us, we cannot have you in our lives. I know this is hard. When we get to the place in our own recovery, and if you are willing to work *WITH* us in building our marriage and not breaking it, we can talk more about how you can take extraordinary precautions to not destroy our marriage.

Love,

Your son

The second suggestion is that when you get far enough into recovery, and if she is willing to work on HELPING you, you can all sit together and you can explain what extraordinary precautions are and she can work on a contract with her where EP's will be put into effect. Make sure she knows the consequences of breaking them.

But first... Let's recover your marriage. Since your husband is a Christian man, remind him that his sin is first and foremost offensive to God, and secondly he has sinned against you. That he has broken the commandment to not bear false witness (lying, and that includes not being open and honest), and second, that he has committed adultery... Whether emotional or physical (don't know yet), and that he needs to return to his wife and restore that relationship.

The material here will guide you through doing that. Sorry this was so long.

CV

In case you don't have HNHN for Parents, I typed up the following excerpt that really helped Markos and me:

Your MIL is an enemy of your marriage --perhaps one of the worst kinds, since she has such influence on her son -- and should be treated as such. I was beside myself when Markos parents started "warning" him about me. I can't imagine if they had actually encouraged an affair! This is a dangerous woman as far as your marriage is concerned.

If your marriage is going to recover, you and your husband are going to need to cut off contact with her. At least until YOU are convinced that she is a supporter of your marriage, and has ceased her destructive behavior. Set the bar high on allowing her back into your lives. If she's done this once, what's to stop her from doing it again?

In our own marriage, if we are to ever resume contact with Markos parents, they will never be allowed to be alone with him again. They will never be allowed to talk to him alone again. They will see and accept us together, as one flesh, or they will not see Markos at all. They will make no complaints about me to Markos at all, and they will certainly not warn him about me. They will not give marital advice -- they've lost that privilege. They will treat me as part of Markos. In other words, I am his wife. They will treat me with the dignity and respect that I deserve simply because I am his wife, and they will respect and honor the boundaries of our marriage.

Martha Jane, please Google the term "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" (NPD). I think you will find your MIL right there.

Your real problem is that your WH refuses to protect you from his mother's abuse because he is hiding behind Mommy to go have an affair.

Thank you Markos and Prisca! IT is really good to read all this from the mother-in-law perspective since my son was married in October. I try real hard to be supportive and not too bossy.

I called my son with a suggestion a couple of weeks ago and chuckled when he said "ok, mom I will run this by my wife and see what she says." I like dat.

He sounds like a great boy.

But be careful giving him unsolicited advice!!!! :P

Ohhhhhhh, god!

Wy-ette (complete with shotgun and faux mustache)
as a mother-in law!

Or: M/L as an MiL!

Heh; Prisca read the above post and said MelodyLane sounded like a great mother in law!