Thank you Grace, it does help. There are some lies I had started to believe as well. I just am hoping now that I don't actually suffer from some horrible and well deserved karma and I am actually able to bear my husband a beautiful child when he is ready for that.

Up, this is a good goal to shoot for after recovery happens. The hard part is that the years and years of lies that you have told, not just to yourself, but to so many others as well.

Schoolbus!!! Where are you?!?! She can put this in much better words than I can, but there are long lingering effects to lying, and patters will not change overnight. It will be hard to be 100% open and honest.BUT! You can do it.


CV

There will be consequences for us to bare for the rest of our lives. To me the worst one is knowing what I did to my H and our marriage. Everyday my H will wake up knowing that the one person he trusted with his whole life betrayed him. I hope that God will be as merciful to you as He has been to me.... He's given me this one chance to prove each and every day that my repentance is real. This means A LOT OF WORK. It means putting H first no matter what. My wonderful H has let me become his best friend again and I will gladly take whatever consequence I have to to stay here. Working to become the wife he always should have had has made me someone worth keeping and H has become my treasure.

So WORK your butt off! Be HONEST till it hurts and then keep on. Order the books Surviving and Affair and Love Busters and read them front to back, underline, make notes...

Lies are an interesting part of human behavior.

My guess about Upsidedown is that she began lying as a child because the truth in her home was defined as:

"whatever works".


Let me explain.

Philosophers discuss the concept of truth, and people who are "just regular folks" really are philosophers and don't know it. People go about their lives every day, and develop ideas about HUGE concepts, such as what is love, what is truth, what is god, all of this and more. That is, in a nutshell, philosophy. Well, this one dude named William James decided that, in his view, "truth" was "whatever works". So, if an idea of what must be "truth" worked for him, then it was "truth".

Yeah, I know, it doesn't make much sense, and you can drive a Mack truck through his argument. But, there it is.

But in the case of Upsidedown's home life, my guess is that her abusive mom made up the rules about what the "truth" was. And that "truth" was - whatever worked for her mom! So, here's this little kid, and she observes that the world's events are not exactly what they might seem...that she observes one thing, and deems it to be "true", and then mom REDEFINES IT. The "truth" can actually CHANGE?????? Wow.


Only, somehow, Upsidedown knows that this cannot happen. Yet every day, in her house, the truth is not an entity unto itself. It is MALLEABLE, changeable, and flexible. It can be formed to fit the needs of an individual, so that ANY BEHAVIOR is - or seems to be - justified. Even evil can be justified, because the truth can be altered to fit the need........


So, Upsidedown learns that lying is not "really" lying. It is a manipulation of the truth, only in the sense that

the truth is whatever works.





The problem is that deep down inside, Upsidedown knows, and has known, that this is NOT right. Because she feels guilt, and knows of the pain of this way of life.


And she wants to walk on that "other path" she sees "over there". Only it would mean that she has to live in what she KNOWS to be the REAL TRUTH. One that is not to be molded to her very own desires, but one in which she must mold herself to live within.


This takes practice. This hurts. This leads to the statement that goes something like,


"Maybe I should just leave and start over where my life isn't messed up by all of this."


Because what she does not realize is that:

no matter where she goes, she takes her history with her, and her life will be messed up with all of this


wherever she lands.


This is the problem with having manipulated the truth of your life for so long. You no longer even realize that you drag it with you wherever you go.



You cannot escape yourself. You cannot "start over". You can only begin in this moment, with the truth at hand, the history of what you have done, and a plan for how to begin with the first step on the path that YOU CHOOSE.



That "other path" you desire is one you pave yourself. You need only choose the bricks carefully.



SB

Call. The. Harleys.

If you call them on your own, and then explain to your H that you have found a resource that will help you rebuild your marriage after your adultery, he might be impressed that you took this step. He might see it as a sign of your determination and commitment. Even if he is not impressed at first, if you can get him to speak to a coach, that will make a difference to how he feels. The coach (Dr Harley's son or daughter) will help you persuade him to speak to them.

Hi Up,

I hope you've had a healthy and productive weekend with your H. You've been on my mind...let us know how you're doing when you get a chance.

Grace

Upsidedown,

So you want the OM to suffer, and your belief is that if you expose to his betrayed wife, this will make you feel better.


It might. It might not.

Either way, your exposing your affair to the OM's betrayed wife would serve many purposes, the LEAST of which involves any of YOUR NEEDS.

See, you remain focused on what YOU want, which tells those of us who have been there that you are still in a wayward mindset.

Your husband knows this, and can see that your focus remains on yourself.


You have many miles to travel before you can see this for yourself. You will get there, ultimately. Keep working.



In the meantime, you should write a letter to the betrayed wife. By all means. Here is what you should say:




Dear Betrayed Wife,

I am writing this letter to apologize to you, because I am guilty of causing damage to your marriage by my behavior. I had an affair with your husband which began in (put the month and year hear) and ended (put end date here). My husband knows of this affair, and you can contact him if you wish to confirm this information (place your husband's telephone contact information here).

Please allow me to offer my most sincere and heartfelt apology for interfering in your marriage and your life. I have absolutely no right to expect you to accept this apology, and I understand why you may never choose to forgive me. There is no justification or explanation I can offer you for my despicable behavior. I am very sorry for what I have done.

For your peace of mind, I will never contact your family or husband ever again, by any means or method. This is my promise to you, and to my husband, and I vow that I will not break this promise.

Again, I apologize for what I have done to you and your family. I cannot imagine the pain that I have caused for you, and I will pray that somehow there can be healing for all of you.

Upsidedown




This is not focused on you. It tells her that you had the affair, when it began and ended, that she can contact your husband for further information, and that you will never contact her man again.

And, you apologize, tell her that you know she will not forgive you, and you don't try to explain away your horrible behavior.


Then, forever after, you LEAVE HER ALONE.


Because, as you must understand forevermore, any contact with this man is poison to this woman, and to your husband.


Anything you do that brings contact with OM brings this affair back to your husband as DAY NUMBER ONE.

And restarts your recovery as though it just began allllll over again.




Send this letter.


Because the betrayed wife deserves to know the truth of her marriage.
Because the betrayed wife deserves a chance to make her own choices about whether she wants to recover her marriage.
Because the betrayed wife needs to know that her husband is lying to her every single day.
And because YOUR HUSBAND deserves a NO CONTACT letter to be sent.
And because the betrayed wife deserves an apology.
And because your husband needs to see that you actually feel something akin to shame about what you have done.




And NOT because YOU want to get back at the other man.
It is NOT ABOUT YOU.


Not. about. you.




Not.
About.
You.




SB

Upsidedown,

I hope you understand that each time I post to you, I am driving you down the path of recovery - and not trying to beat you up.


Its kind of like driving a herd of cattle. I need you to see what you are not seeing, so I push you down that lane.




SB

Because you wrote this ....


I understand you are struggling with a (life long) problem of lying.

The thing I want to point out to you is that the way you wrote this is also a lie.
You don't suffer with a problem of "being honest".


You need to BE HONEST when you talk to yourself and others about this ....

Here is the truth.

You are a chronic liar.

Please, say it that way.
Because it's honest.
The way you wrote it is dishonest.

Got it?

Instead of "I was not honest with you ...." You say: "I lied to you ...."

See the honesty in the blue as opposed to the dishonesty in the red?

You may think this is nit-picky, but you will be more likely to stop being a liar if you make it MORE uncomfortable for yourself. Not less.
Stop making these discussions about your "honesty problem" and own up to your "I am a chronic liar" problem.

Blessings upon you.

Pep hits it on the head.


The way you speak reflects how you think about things.


Fewer words, more direct language, leads you to the truth faster.


"I am a liar"


"I lied to you"

"I am a cheater"

"I hate what I did"

"I am to blame"

"How can I help you"

"I can make better choices"


"I WILL CHANGE" "I CHOOSE RIGHT" "I CHOOSE TRUTH"




I use a rule with many of the people I work with. I tell them that they have to use FIVE WORD SENTENCES, no more, when they talk.

This forces them to stop using adjectives (words that describe, such as "huge, awesome, exciting" and reduces them to the bare minimum to get their point across. It also forces them to


THINK ABOUT THEIR MESSAGE

before they open their mouths.


Not an easy task. But ooohhhh, the change in their communication abilities.


They usually break the 5 word rule after a bit. Yet, that change of style can be measured in improved relationships, and improved ability to compose a thought.



Try it. For the next three "real affair conversations" you have with your husband, you are on the five-word restriction. Keep each sentence five words long or less. You can combine sentences, but no longer than five-words. Tell him what you are doing, and why. Tell him a communications specialist recommended it so you could focus on your truth and the message, and not on being guarded.


Watch your argumentativeness stop, your openness change, and your desire to lie reduce. You just won't need to, because you will see that when you can think about what the truth really is


you will see that it is much easier to live with the truth


than to try to create something else to live in.

And your stress level in dealing with other people simply evaporates. Somehow, you will find "you". In five words or less. Strange, but true.


SB

Thank you. I really like the five word rule. I am going to try that today, when I see my husband again. I did something really stupid last night and I need some advice.

I got angry because my husband was telling me again that I am not remourseful enough and that I am being selfish. I was angry to begin with because he wrote in his journal about my affair and then was lounging in the backyard with our little girl and negligently left the journal wide open to the page that he had wrote about things on. I came outside and noticed the journal about the same time that she did and she and I both started reading it about the same time before he noticed and grabbed it away. He says he doesn't believe our daughter can read his writing, but I am not so sure as he writes her notes every day for school and she can read those. Is it selfish of me to not want our seven year old to know about this? During this exchange, he told me also that he wrote the entry with the intent of giving it to the kids someday when they were adults. I don't know how to feel about this. I suppose I have no right to be upset about this, but I am none the less.

Anyway, in my effort to prove how sorrowful and upset I am that I hurt the one person in my life that trusted me with everything at the most basic level, I told him that I could not imagine being more upset and sad than I am even if I were in his shoes. I said that in fact I may feel worse because I am the one that has to live with the pain that I caused this horror in our life.

He got very upset and told me that his pain and my pain are on completely different levels. I took it back immediately as I realized my mistake in saying that ( even if that is what I feel on some level, I shouldn't have said that).

My problem, I guess, is that I do feel that on some level and I'm not sure what to do about that....

It's still all about you, isn't it?

Yes, I suppose though. I'm sad, as I thought I was making progress, but maybe not. I do want to change. However, I haven't made the progress I thought I had.

Believe it or not, the idea is to build you up, not beat you up... though it's not a bad idea. Up is a better direction than this rectocranial inversion you have going right now.

My prediction is that if you don't get over your drama queen pity party, that you will leave because "everybody is mean," you will make no progress in your marriage, and you will be back in a year or two talking about how you "tried to implement MB" but it "just isn't working."

First and foremost, to move toward recovery you have to put your betrayed husband, the victim of your mental and emotional terrorism and violence, ahead of yourself until he stops bleeding.

Also; a truly repentant offender CONFESSES their crime and offers apology to ALL THAT WERE HARMED BY IT.

This includes your children, parents, siblings and In-Laws.

Your kids have a right to know about what has happened. Not only that, it can help them learn and avoid the mistakes you have made. To me, accusing him of purposely leaving his journal open was a disrespectful judgement. You could have asked him why he left it opened.

You are not remorseful and you are being selfish.

Sorry if I am being harsh. But you have committed the most painful act your BH will ever experience. You will only understand it if it happens to you (which I hope it does not).

Your pain is in no comparison to what happened to him. Yes, you do have to live with the choices that you made and it sucks (I know). How can you help him heal if you do not understand that he is hurting beyond anything you can imagine? Right now he is suffering from an injury that you caused. Think about it this way, his legs have been shattered into bits and you are saying it's not that bad, it's just a sprain, you can try and stand. It's going to take time for to heal before he can stand and recover. Just like recovery for your marriage.

Your attitude is not going to make anything better, Getting angry at him will not make things better.

He is right, your pain and his are completely different.

Your child has every right to know. Your husband has every right to tell his children what you've done.

If you really are a FWW, why do you want to hide it?


Stop thinking about it.

I know that his pain is far greater than anything I can imagine. What I am trying to figure out is why I would say that it wasn't. Am I really that horrible of a person... I am really having a hard time with that.

As long as we are together as a family, I want to protect our children from any pain from this. That is why I don't want them to know.

You made a SERIES of SEVERAL choices, knowing the outcome fully well, and chose to ignore that out of selfishness, thoughtlessness, and cruelty.

He woke up one morning, and the person he most loved and trusted had shattered his world and spat in his face.

Different doesn't even begin to cover it.