Hello MikeSmile,

Just wanted to let you know I think you're doing fine especially for so early in your recovery...

One thing I do think you may want to consider is this:

If you are serious about having a GREAT marriage that you both enjoy and feel happy and satisfied in you MUST draw a SEPARATION from the affair tainted M and your recovery or you will BOTH go crazy from the insecurity you will both feel...

Hers from WHEN is he going to stop the DJ's and AO's and is it even POSSIBLE to have a good marriage after what I've done???

YOU with how do I stop looking at my FWW as DAMAGED GOODS I GOT STUCK WITH and will I EVER be able to forgive her and stop obsessing about the affair???

Dr.Harley makes a point that there should be a TIME OF SEPARATION such as a vacation after separating from the affair partner to allow for withdrawal AND to draw a CLEAR LINE betwen the affair and recovery of the M.

I would suggest that you spend some quiet time figuring out WHAT questions you need answered and WHY you want them answered.

After they have been answered to your satisfaction, with polygraph confirmation if you feel the need, I REALLY would schedule a short vacation and do things that you both enjoy keeping in mind Dr.Harley's recomendations of taking a vacation.

Meeting the EN's of both partners particularly those involving pleasurable physical excercise (we loved float tripping with friends!) and SF perhaps in some new(ahem!)settings that don't remind you constantly of the affair is so important to getting into the new habits of meeting EN's...

Which is HOW you get past the affair garbage.

By forming new habits of relating to each other.

When Mrs.Flint started fixing "mouth watering home cooked meals" I didn't resent the "slime covered garbage" she had thrown at my ex-brother to keep him interested nearly as much.

It's important to note that Mrs.Flint started "wanting to cook" when we went on vacation and we BOTH were distracted enough from the affair that the love we had for each other came to the surface instead of constantly being covered with talking and thinking about the affair.

The end result that you mentioned will be that your M is better than before the A and that what YOU get from your W will be better than any of the "slime covered garbage" that your W threw at the OM.

God bless.

Jim

My FWW has no withdrawal. She was being used by this guy and although no gun was to her head and she could leave anytime, she didnt. Cant explain better than that. There was affection and maybe love for the first number of years, then complacency and normalcy set in and she felt stuck. The bottom line and it sucks is she had an easy job where she brought in a few bucks each week from this guy. He keep her close and this kept her from looking for a real job with a future. So, this job where she was making a few hundred dollars/wk required her to service the OM. So even when she claims to have hated the pressure he put on her action, she stuck around. And I believe she really rated him glomming on her to sex and she said no on occasion, but never quit.

When this ended last month, there was a palpable relief from her. Big f-ing deal. She's happy its over and wants to move on. I stuck on 7 years of her giving her body to another man. Regardless of her being or not its over. Im stuck. Its about the sex. There, I said it. I cant get passed the sex.

Im on AD. My hands are shaking. And I cant focus on anything. This completely blindsided me and Im suppose forgive and find out emotional needs I didnt give her that the OM did. I know one thing he gave her that I didnt. Thats for sure.

Im ready to pack my stuff. Sorry to all helped but its too much, too much to deal with.

it's a mother load of deceit to deal with Mike, no apology required. Take care of you!!

Just cant get passed her ability to bring this guy in to my house for years while doing what they were doing during the week. And, she didnt confess, they got caught. Big difference. She'd be back there on Monday if not for the Mothers Day Massacre.

And the amount of times she gave herself to him makes me sick. Physically sick. I know guys, horny guys. And this woman was alone with a horny guy for many, many days. And seemingly was not giving up too much of a fight.

My kids are going to be devastated. They are going to hate her. She has ruin the lives of many people. And, in truth, I do think she'll reach out to OM eventually and guess what?, he dump his wife in minutes, this POS has 2 y.o. and he was playing with fire for seven years too, but he'll leave them in a heartbeat. So, if I do go, I get the benefit of knowing with likelihood, the OM may be a part of my kids life. How crazy is that?

mike

you are doing great. its just a bad moment- it will pass as they have done before. judt hang in there you are doing great. dont get yourself in to a crazy state that you will have to apologize for tommorrow. breathe...

chick;

There has been no AOs. This has been a controlled thing. Just reality. Im a mental mess. Im having the shakes take over my body. She sees them and is freaking out too.

She knows what the main issue is with me and its a jealously thing. Bottom line. I understand it just cant fight it.

Thanks for the words and maybe youre right. Where is the C. Voyager? He always manages to get me off the cliff.

And Hils. Id even take NeverGuessed who tends to chew me apart. HELPPP. This is taking a bad turn.

i am in the same place.... when my h saw me have a panic attack 2 wk ago it was bad he almost to me to er, but having him see me in the state i was helped him understand what i was dealing with, you also can ask for help from your W, you are allowed to ask for help.

i think they are all out to dinner with each other tonight.. that would be very funny to see.

She is ready to eo anything. She saw my shaking earlier and gave me an awesome foot rub. She's trying. I tell her its less about her than its about me. Trying to put a huge pile of doo doo in the back of my brain. I feel like, to some degree, if I do this, Im rewarding her. She treated me like garbage and because I now know about it, Im supposed to say lets just start over. Too hard to do that.

"I feel like, to some degree, if I do this, Im rewarding her. She treated me like garbage and because I now know about it, Im supposed to say lets just start over."

i totally understand your feelings, feel the same way at times. but you are doing this bc YOU love her, and you will reap the rewards of a good marrige.

put the crazys out of your head and thank her for the foot rub.., i know you can make yourself nuts with the toughts.

i also understand that "its all about you"- same situation- but as i was told- you have to give yourself a chance to grieve

breathe

Mike, You can pack your bags and leave but the anger and the shakes will follow you.

One of the problems with avoiding AO is that sometimes we end up letting the anger build inside. It has to get out in some form whether shaking, outburst, anxiety, etc.

Find a way to let yourself FEEL the anger and get it out. Yell, throw rocks at trees, beat the punching bag, anything.

... wish I knew what to say. You have shown incredible strength and courage.

Mike - hang in there man!

It's a crappy thing to know and your wife just wanting to move on like it all never happneed. I know you don't think there's any consequences for her or POSOM. Have faith Mike. There will be.

Your wife is just now seeing the physical and mental anguish that she caused hit you like a brick wall. As for that POSOM - I'd be talking to the lawyers about sexual harassment in a big way. Don't worry mate - someone will clean his clock sooner than later. Let's not let you being the one to do it - at least not physically. Those kids need a daddy at home - not in jail.

I think your wife needs you too.

Go out for a run. Go do something to get away by yourself for an hour. Do something physical like strenuous exercise. That will help your body get rid of the fight or flight chemicals you're producing. Your mind will clear. This crap will drop away. Refocus to your children and regaining a healthy marriage.

I'm praying hard for you mate. Real hard.

Mike,

Sorry bro, We had D's graduation Friday from high school (still trying to recover from that), family visiting from out of town and I had to finish Sunday School.

The shakes go away. They do. I thought I had permanent nerve damage or something from the A. It lasted a good year. Had em waking and sleeping. I think my body was in shock. Yours probably is too. You mentioned you lost weight. Normal from the stress. I lost over 20lbs and I was average build. HANG IN THERE.

Do you let your wife read these at all? Maybe just print off my response to you here...

What helped calm me (this is stress related as near as I can tell)was actually my wife holding me. I would have to just give in when I didn't want it and let her do it. See, she is the love of your life and you are injured. Let her hold you and help heal you. As your heart heals, your body will follow. Part of recovery is opening yourself up to her and letting her help you heal. You know we are praying for you, right?

CV

3;50am, 4 hours sleep fairly normal. My body is convulsing. Popping AD and anxiety pills. All I think about is her being with him. And, the absolute disregard for me and my kids she shown for all these years. The ruin she done my life and many others around us (parents, friends) is huge and will get bigger if I go. But, it might be better for my kids not to see their father as a mental patient.

I promised not to AO so I do go crazy in my car alone to let loose but there is no satisfaction in that. I do go for runs and try to work it out. I so screwed. She ruined this perfect little family that I so loved.

I do let her read these posts, all of them as they more often than not are keeping me focused on the prize. And she needs to hear what you are saying as it helps her cope. Shes a big fan, just not a big writer.

CV-I told her just yesterday, the holding we do is the only real time I stop thinking about the A for a minute. We cant hold all day, though. I asked. We are more affectiate in public something we never were. Its almost too little too late. I wish I didnt feel this way.

Now I cry about how this is going to affect my babies (9 and 11 year olds). They hurt already, they see their dad in bad shape, now I have to potential for the triple threat of destroying this family. Its a no win thing right now.

I will say this, I gave myself 90 days after dday to figure this out. NOt yet 30 days so I guess Im not giving it the due time it deserves and promised myself I would. Right now, tho, I want out.

Mike,

I had many mental and physical symptoms as well. The shakes, crying, the nightmares, the not knowing whether I had eaten or not all get better with time.

At some point a few weeks after D-day in 2008, I read something on here about recovery taking two years. It seemed an eternity away. But I decided that I would fully commit to working on the marriage for two years. We are now D-day plus three years last April and doing much better. It was so awkward at first. We were working on the MB sub-courses and affection felt contrived and our conversation was mostly about the weather and the dog. At some point, I started to laugh again. And the triggers became bearable annoyances instead of things that set me into a tailspin.

Everything you are feeling is normal. I am sorry for your pain. Time makes it better. I wish there were something faster.

AM

Mike,

Taking this one hour at a time will help you at this early stage. Plan your day to stay busy. Follow through with the plan.

Include some exercise.

Cypress

Wife to MikeSmile....hi.
I don't think its a good idea for you to read the thread cause Mike is working through stuff that is tough and I don't suppose you are in a place to read it. The revelation is too new.

I wish you both the best on recovering from the long time horror.

Mike.....of course you are in a very bad place emotionally. It is horrible. It takes time to work through. Stages to go through. You need this thread for your own personal space. I know you want to share with your wife but you are not in the best place as a couple to do so on this thread.

Mike, learn the principles of Marriage Builders to help with your emotions. Have your wife read the books and maybe start her own thread (though I bet you would be too tempted to read it which isn't good at this juncture).

Mike, I think you ought to have money put aside to use the Marriage Builders coaching center. Read the books first, at least be fairly confident you understand the concepts and consider calling the center and getting a coach to help you through this.

Affairs suck. Long time affairs suck. They all do.

I will say this, I gave myself 90 days after dday to figure this out. Not yet 30 days so I guess Im not giving it the due time it deserves and promised myself I would. Right now, tho, I want out.

No, you don't, thankfully. How do I know that?

Now I cry about how this is going to affect my babies (9 and 11 year olds). They hurt already, they see their dad in bad shape, now I have to potential for the triple threat of destroying this family. Its a no win thing right now.

You don't want to leave, because you know the consequences. You want the pain to stop, and you think leaving is the only way to bring that about.

I used this logic with another poster awhile back: Forget the fact that you were ever married to your FWW. Instead, you just met her, this week, with her two beautiful children, and in talking to her she was honest enough to tell you she had made terrible errors in HER prior marriage, realized her mistakes, and would certainly use the knowledge she had (painfully) gained to create a better marriage with any man who would commit to her going forward.

Now, do you continue to pursue a relationship with her, to share your life with her and help her raise those two babies?

Your problem is focused on the fact that you are hurting, that it's not so much that she was flawed, but that she did it to you. I know how much it hurts. I felt the same way. I had to separate what my FWW did to me in the past from what I wanted us to have together in the future.

In my deepest consciousness, then, I "wrote off" my first marriage, of thirty-three years. I then reproposed (seriously, on my knees, on a beach) to that same woman, and remarried her some weeks later. Our original wedding anniversary, 01 May, I know longer pay heed to; our re-wedding anniversary, 13 August, is the one I acknowledge.

The point to all this was that I realized that I could NEVER forget the betrayal, and its existence would do to me what your situation is doing to you. I "boxed" the betrayal in a way that it no longer has any effect on me. "Oh, yeah, my 'first' wife cheated on me, but I love my 'second' wife all the more."

NG-

Thanks.

And, as usual on point.

Mike

Excellent NG!

Mike,

This is just a thought. Please disregard if it seems silly:

Could you do a small ceremony with friends to mark the end of the 'old marriage'. Planning the ceremony with WW could be cathartic. And in the future when you are ready , propose again like NG did?

Cypress.

Hey MikeSmile,

I know it sucks...

It did for me too.

But...

She did stick around for a reason...

and it wasn't the sex anymore in your case than it was in mine.

It was him meeting her EN's to feel wanted, needed and desired.

The money meant nothing more than it would have if it would have been flowers, gifts or concert tickets he was giving.

You are making a distinction because it was cash rather than gifts and it doesn't matter which it was.

She felt needed by him and now she misses THAT...

Not the sex.

She's glad that part is done and you are right...

there is no withdrawal from the sex...

BUT there is BIG TIME withdrawal from the attention and having her EN's met by him...

Which you are NOT DOING at the present time.

So, yes, she IS in withdrawal from the affair.

You missed the point I was making that you have got to draw a line between the affair and recovery with a break for you both away from the affair talk.

Dr.Harley recommends it in ALL cases whether or not they feel as though there is any withdrawal from the OP.

I REALLY think you two could both use a break away for a while to mark the beginning of your NEW marriage together and the death of the old.

Good luck my friend and God bless.

Jim