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Jack,

You can't let the fear of your children's reaction determine your path.

Something along the lines of...."3 years ago daddy and mommy had some problems and, rather than fix them, daddy moved out. During that time I met a lady who made me feel better. This was wrong! I was still married to your mother and married people should not date. Instead of moving out, I should have stayed and worked things through. I realized that and came back home because I love you and your mother very much. I am so sorry for running away from my problems. I've learned a better way to do things. Now, mommy has confided in a man to make her feel better and what she is doing is wrong as well. We should work on our problems together without any interference from outside people. Married people don't date. Explain that you love mommy very much and want her to love you to but, even though you love her, you can't keep helping her hurt you. Maybe give an example of a time you had to say no to them because you love them. Then say mommy is using family money to carry on her affair. I can not allow that, so I will be taking care of all the money, the bills and anything you guys need. I will take care of mommy too, I just need to make sure our money stays in our family.

BTW, I am a FWW and I had to follow my husband to all our banks and get our accounting information with him. Prior to this I did all our banking and her really had no clue about the money. I only used minimal funds for my affair (gas $ and a pizza) however, he was absolutely correct in making sure I had limited access. Fortunately, I ended it so we didn't need to change all credit cards (may have had a harder time getting new ones) but I totally understand his concern.

I believe staying at home as valuable to the family as working; however, it is FAMILY money (don't refer to it as yours or that will really pi$$ her off). She has no right to use FAMILY money for unagreed up expenses.

Good luck

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Originally Posted By: jackinthebox

This is all new to me. My thought right now is that I will hand her two sets of papers. The first will be a NC letter for her to sign in front of me and we can mail to OM together (or I will mail it). The second set will be dissolution of marriage papers, which will be filed in the event she decides not to agree to sign the NC letter.

Once I give her these papers, is it recommended that I give her a deadline as to the signing of the NC letter before I file for divorce. You mentioned that NotSure's H raised hell for a few days then came around when he saw that she was not budging. I am assuming she gave him some time?


Jack, I would suggest just handing her a list of your conditions for now and letting her soak on that for a couple of days. Be VAGUE and just say that if you don't agree this will lead to divorce, and I will be asking you to move out since you can't support the house or the kids. THEN, if she doesn't agree and follow through with your conditions, seek legal help and start the process. Nine times out of ten, they do get on board after a couple days of teeth gnashing and shock and awe to see if you are serious.

I like the idea of having a no contact letter right there. I would have her write it though. Give her an example and tell her this would be a good will gesture to you and would help in earning your forgiveness [talk alot about giving her the opportunity to "earn your forgiveness" = she is under the impression that you are offering unconditional forgiveness and she needs to understand this isn't the case] Ask her to write the letter and suggest you mail it together.

Please go back and read my description of how the talk should go. Waywards are very foggy, so you will need to use some bullet points when you make her points to her and basically be a broken record. Repeat over and over again that you can't live like this and unless she commits to no contact and a program of recovery that this will go to divorce.

Make certain she understands it won't be YOU leaving. She will be the one to leave.

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Thanks again Melody for all of your advice. I appreciate the fact that you don't sugarcoat things. Sometimes I need a good slap in the face to get off the fence (not literally).


Thanks for keeping an open mind, friend. I really do want you to save your marriage. I do think you can. In fact, I predict she will rant and rave and make threats for about 2 days to see if you are serious and THEN she will agree. That is usually what happens. You just have to hold on and don't allow her to intimidate you. Your marriage depends on it!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Sunny...you did a very good job of explaining that in a way that makes sense...much better than anything I would have come up with.

As far as the money goes, I handle everything related to the finances and have for years. We do not have any credit cards, just the one attached to our checking account. She might spend some on gas, but other than that I would no as I watch everything pretty good...and I was an auditor for several years.

I never refer to anything as my money, I always refer to it as our money, our bills, etc.

Still working on a plan of action. I did block his number from her phone and also blocked any private or restricted numbers, but she does not know I have done that...so if I hear from her on that, I will certainly know why.

Let me ask you, as a FWW, what was it that made you decide to work it out with your husband?

Thanks for the advice.

Last edited by jackinthebox; 06/06/11 01:53 PM.

Me: (43) FWH/BH
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I disagree that his old affair should be brought into this, except as a footnote maybe. It is not relevant to the current events and will just muddy the waters and sound like a tit for tat. The point of telling the kids is so they will understand the source of tension in their home TODAY.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: jackinthebox

Once I give her these papers, is it recommended that I give her a deadline as to the signing of the NC letter before I file for divorce. You mentioned that NotSure's H raised hell for a few days then came around when he saw that she was not budging. I am assuming she gave him some time?



She gave him 48 hours to agree to her terms. In your case, I would give her 48 hours to agree and tell her if she doesn't agree in that time frame, you will be seeking legal remedy.

And I would very much let your kids know all about her affair on the same day. She needs to answer to them for her actions, since her actions affect them very much.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: jackinthebox

This is all new to me. My thought right now is that I will hand her two sets of papers. The first will be a NC letter for her to sign in front of me and we can mail to OM together (or I will mail it). The second set will be dissolution of marriage papers, which will be filed in the event she decides not to agree to sign the NC letter.

Once I give her these papers, is it recommended that I give her a deadline as to the signing of the NC letter before I file for divorce. You mentioned that NotSure's H raised hell for a few days then came around when he saw that she was not budging. I am assuming she gave him some time?


Jack, I would suggest just handing her a list of your conditions for now and letting her soak on that for a couple of days. Be VAGUE and just say that if you don't agree this will lead to divorce, and I will be asking you to move out since you can't support the house or the kids. THEN, if she doesn't agree and follow through with your conditions, seek legal help and start the process. Nine times out of ten, they do get on board after a couple days of teeth gnashing and shock and awe to see if you are serious.

I like the idea of having a no contact letter right there. I would have her write it though. Give her an example and tell her this would be a good will gesture to you and would help in earning your forgiveness [talk alot about giving her the opportunity to "earn your forgiveness" = she is under the impression that you are offering unconditional forgiveness and she needs to understand this isn't the case] Ask her to write the letter and suggest you mail it together.

Please go back and read my description of how the talk should go. Waywards are very foggy, so you will need to use some bullet points when you make her points to her and basically be a broken record. Repeat over and over again that you can't live like this and unless she commits to no contact and a program of recovery that this will go to divorce.

Make certain she understands it won't be YOU leaving. She will be the one to leave.

Quote:
Thanks again Melody for all of your advice. I appreciate the fact that you don't sugarcoat things. Sometimes I need a good slap in the face to get off the fence (not literally).


Thanks for keeping an open mind, friend. I really do want you to save your marriage. I do think you can. In fact, I predict she will rant and rave and make threats for about 2 days to see if you are serious and THEN she will agree. That is usually what happens. You just have to hold on and don't allow her to intimidate you. Your marriage depends on it!

I am still waiting to hear back from a family law attorney that is a friend of mine. Since my wife has been a stay at home mom and has been out of the workforce for so long to provide for our children, I believe in our state she is entitled to a certain amount of time for retraining to get back into the workplace.

If this is the case, then if I ask her to leave and cut her off financially, is the court going to come back at me and say
"no way" and possibly toss me out at that point? How does the court perceive a husband that throws his wife and mother of his children out of the family home? I ask this because they disregard adultery in this state, so they are not really that concerned with what she has done.


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Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
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Originally Posted By: jackinthebox
I am still waiting to hear back from a family law attorney that is a friend of mine. Since my wife has been a stay at home mom and has been out of the workforce for so long to provide for our children, I believe in our state she is entitled to a certain amount of time for retraining to get back into the workplace.

If this is the case, then if I ask her to leave and cut her off financially, is the court going to come back at me and say
"no way" and possibly toss me out at that point? How does the court perceive a husband that throws his wife and mother of his children out of the family home? I ask this because they disregard adultery in this state, so they are not really that concerned with what she has done.


I would leave this all very vague right now and just give her your conditions and tell her this will lead to divorce if she doesn't agree. I am not suggesting you throw her out, I am suggesting you begin divorce proceedings if she won't commit to the marriage and take legal steps. You don't have to have a decided court case with reams of case law to simply tell her this will lead to divorce and that is your next step. You will be seeking a divorce with possession of the home and primary custody of the children.

I would be very surprised if your wife were able to maintain the home and primary custody if she has no job and means of support. I have NEVER heard of that. I do know of one wife was able to keep the house for 6 months until the house could be sold. And she recieved no alimony. BUT DON'T GO THERE. For now, simply say that this will lead to divorce and I will be seeking XYZ. See what I mean?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: jackinthebox
I am still waiting to hear back from a family law attorney that is a friend of mine. Since my wife has been a stay at home mom and has been out of the workforce for so long to provide for our children, I believe in our state she is entitled to a certain amount of time for retraining to get back into the workplace.


p.s. if it does come to divorce, I would find a lawyer who would promise to go after the home and primary custody with a small settlement and no alimony. Attorneys will typically take the path of least resistence, so you will want to tell your attorney what you expect and it is up to him to help you get it. Anything can be negotiated.

And does your wife even have the money to hire an attorney? I would make sure she does not have access to large amounts of your money.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
In fact, I predict she will rant and rave and make threats for about 2 days to see if you are serious and THEN she will agree. That is usually what happens. You just have to hold on and don't allow her to intimidate you. Your marriage depends on it!


Strongly agreed.

Just want to add that not only do you want to bring reality into the situation (that she will be facing divorce if she doesn't get on board with a recovery plan) but also please be sure to tell her that you have a lot of hope for your M into the future. Be calm, focus on your kids, make the house a pleasing place to be, etc. Don't engage if she tries to gaslight you ~ Melody is right, be prepared to be a broken record.

You CAN do this!


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We are actually renting this house (a lease option) and the plan was to buy it after a couple of years. We signed a five year lease and put $5,000 down as option money. I made some stupid mistakes related to a business I owned with someone else about 4 years ago and that pretty much ruined us financially...we lost the house, lifestyle changed, etc. That was when the problems really started, but I have worked hard for the last 4 years to try and pull us out of this mess.

I know she does not have money for an attorney, and she will not be able to get access to any large amounts of money. We have been struggling just to get back on our feet for the past 4 years. So there also is not anything to give her as a lump sum up front at this point either.

Last edited by jackinthebox; 06/06/11 02:26 PM.

Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
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Melody,

I agree with you that this current affair has absolutely nothing to do with the past. My verbage was in response to Jack's fear that his WW would throw that up as a reason and the kids would buy it....as in, mean old daddy left us and had an affair and I've been sooo sad and now he is taking away all my things and not supporting me boo hooo. I figured a proactive approach would be respected by his kids.

Jack,

My DH is usually non confrontational like you but he was very firm about no contact. I can't say that I was certain I wanted to work on my marriage when I agreed to that but even I knew that my head was not in the right place to make such a life changing decision. In my head, I really did have some crazy idea that I could still be friends with OM but I recognized this would be trememdously hurtful to my BH so I decided to not contact "for awhile" but kinda had it in my head that I might in the future....as the days went by, I realized I wouldn't but my wayward feelings were the exact reason you need complete transparency and extraordinary precautions. Without the fear of being caught....who knows?

Your children need you to be strong...so does your WW, she just doesn't know it yet.

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We have talked in the last couple of days about some of this, and I had told her that I would not stay with her if she did not agree to NC with OM. Her reply was that she did not plan on contacting OM, but she did not want to make that promise until she decided whether she wanted to work on things with us...which according to her is a whole separate issue. She keeps saying that even if things with OM are completely over, she does not know at this point if she wants to work on things between her and I, because of the problems we already had pre affair, such as my lack of affection, not engaging in intimate conversation, and basically not being there for her emotionally.

I guess it is because of these conversations between her and I that I am not sure she is really that concerned if I were to file for divorce. She has mentioned several times that if she were in my shoes, that is what she would do. When I ask her why, she says "because 5 weeks ago I told you I was in love with someone else and was prepared to leave you to be with him".

Anyone care to help me "decode" that?


Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
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Originally Posted By: jackinthebox
I guess it is because of these conversations between her and I that I am not sure she is really that concerned if I were to file for divorce.


The issue at hand is not what she wants, but what you want. That is where your focus should lie. The basic problem in your marriage is the affair. Get rid of that, and you can FIX the other problems. But you have no hope unless she commits to ending her affair and commits to a program of recovery.

It is real easy to "decode" that conversation, it is the CLASSIC blameshifting of a the typical wayward wife who tries to minimize the impact of an affair and exaggerate the impact of the martial problems. She needs to exaggerate the problems in order to justify her affair.

I view all of this as a distraction from the real problem, Jack. Your focus needs to be on setting boundaries and bringing her on board in the way we describe. The plan you have for marital recovery addresses and resolves ALL of her grievances anyway.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Melody-your reply reaffirms what I was already thinking. I am also trying to remember how I was thinking when I did what I did. It must have taken something to "snap me out of it", because that is what happened.

I will sit down tonight and put down on paper exactly what I expect from her, and also what I expect from our marriage. I will then present this to her, and let her know that the NC is absolutely non-negotiable and will result in me taking the next step...I will also give her a deadline.

I also agree that the recovery plan I am suggesting addresses all of the issues we have. Like I told her before, if she agrees to work on the marriage, and things don't progress the way the way she thinks they should, then she can end it at that point...but at least we tried and we can walk away saying we did our best to save our marriage and keep our family together.


Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
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Good man! I am so relieved you are getting on board with this. I was getting very worried.

I would present it this way: "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage. I love you and want to have a great marriage but am not willing to stay in a crippled, loveless marriage. Here is what it will take to move this forward:

1...

2....

If you don't agree to these things, then I will be seeking a divorce. I will give you a couple of days to think it over."

Keep in mind that she will fight you and will try to negotiate these extraordinary precautions, but they are not negotiable.

Let her know you know this is what it will take to recover your marriage and it is non-negotiable. She can accept it or reject it, but those are your standards for remaining in the marriage.

And do not get upset if she gets angry and tries to fight with you. She will not want to accept it at first and will try to get you to back down. Don't back down. I predict she will come on board soon enough if you demonstrate you are really serious.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Thanks again for everything Melody and everyone else that has provided the great advice. This is the hardest thing I have ever faced in my life, and I can see where most people would just walk away and throw in the towel...which I am sure many of them do.

I may not be real active over the next couple of days because I have meetings at work and will be away from a computer...just don't want you to think I ran off if you don't see anything back from me. I will try and post when I can over the next couple of days. If you have anything to say or any advice, feel free to post as I will be able to check briefly from my phone.

Thanks again for everything.


Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
NC: 6/2/11
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Originally Posted By: jackinthebox
Thanks again for everything Melody and everyone else that has provided the great advice. This is the hardest thing I have ever faced in my life, and I can see where most people would just walk away and throw in the towel...which I am sure many of them do.


Jack, we understand and sympathize how hard this is; we really do, friend. frown We have been on the other side and have learned the hard way that it is MUCH harder to live in a crippled marriage. I know it doesn't seem like it now, but nothing is as tough as living in a bad marriage. What you are facing today is a walk in the park compared to a long slow death of a thousand cuts. You will do great, Jack. Be strong and stick to your guns!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Not sure if this relevant or what to make of this, but when i got home today my wife was on the computer and was looking for jobs. It has been years since she worked, and she got a job a few months back but it fell through last minute. Anyway, i was very concerned but she told me that she needs something to do,with her time and to keep her occupied. She has said those things before. She seemed in a good mood, and was affectionate, after a couple of bad daya over the weekend. Anyway, i just got real skeptical at first, but a job would keep her from having six hours free time everyday.


Me: (43) FWH/BH
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Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
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Jack
I think you have a good plan to present your wife with.......you have to first end that affair and then work on the marriage.
MelodyLane has given you good advice and an explanation for what she is saying....
It's all fog talk because your wife is still attached to the OM emotionally.
She must not ever see him or speak to him again for the rest of her life, then she will go through a withdrawal period and then she should see things more realistically and understand that what she felt was not real...........
while she is in withdrawal you Plan A her and try to fill her emotional needs as much as you can.................
right now don't believe to much of what she says, watch her actions that should give you a good indication of what her feelings are.......
If she doesn't agree to NO CONTACT then expose the affair......
I agree this affair doesn't have anything to do with your affair, other than to give her an excuse to behave badly.........
dont' let her blame you for her decisions..........
I hope your wife comes to her senses and really thinks about where her life will be if she choses to still have contact with OM
This is a very long road to recovery and this is just the first step, it drains you and you think it is never going to get better but it does, one day at a time.......
hang in there


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When I got home from work yesterday, my wife was on the computer and looking at job postings for the field of work she used to be in. She seemed happier and more positive than I have seen her in a while. I asked why she is all of a sudden interested in getting a job and she said "because I want to focus on more positive things and do something worthwhile, instead of sitting around dwelling on things. I have wasted a lot of time and want to get past this. That's why I don't want to discuss it, because it makes me think about it."

She was planning on going back to work about three months ago but the job fell through last minute, after not working for 13 years. She said I should look at this as a positive thing...which I want to, because I would worry that once school was back she would have her days free again, with nothing to really do (at least nothing good).

The one fear I had with this job thing is that maybe she is really just getting ready to be on her own and realizes that she will have to work...she has told me several times that is not the case.

She also seemed to be more affectionate to me yesterday and today so far. And yesterday is the first time in 5 1/2 weeks that I have not mentioned anything about the situation. She has told me before that she starts to move forward, then I start bombarding her with questions and it brings her right back into it and brings her down...I guess that makes sense and when I look back on it I have been doing that every day, but have stopped for a day and a half now.

Anyone want to comment as to whether I should try and look at this as a positive thing, or should I be more concerned now? I think it would help her self esteem also to be around adults during the day instead of being by herself (or with POSOM).


Me: (43) FWH/BH
Her: (44) FBW/WW
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs
DD's 13 and 9
D Day: 4/28/11
NC: 6/2/11
PA 1-1/2 yrs...WW exposed to OMW on 4/28/11
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