My parents do this, and their relationship is fantastic. They have half an hour to discuss things every Sun night, before they go out and have fun.

I heard Dr. Harley the other day on the Radio show tell Hilltopper that he would be willing to email with you -- sounds like you wouldn't even have to be on the radio show to talk to him!

What do you think about doing that, Grace? It sounds like Dr. Harley would really love to hear your side of things -- he can certainly help you better if he has your input along with Hilltopper's.

You've got an offer to talk to the best marriage counselor in the country for free -- I encourage you to take him up on it!

I'm sure the Mil situation will get better because I pretty much laid out all my feelings (once again). Only time will tell and I'm sure I will update. Bizarre!

After reading and understanding the MB principles it's certainly interesting to look around at our friends as couples.
PS I bumped into a friend yesterday who I had missed at a party and asked her why I didn't see her there or hear a reply to my message. Well come to find out her H is has been having an A for 2 1/2 years and they are now divorcing. Her H said it was over, but never really ended it. I wish I could have referred her to this site earlier, but he had no plans of no contact with OW. I told her we could go into more depth later. Anyone think she could benefit from "Surviving an affair"? She is definitely divorcing so I'm not sure if the content would be appropriate. He moved out in to his apartment and two days later the sleaze, bimbette 23 year old moved in (again after he said it was over between them).

Yes H is on maca. Kinda wish I could too, but I'm getting over the breastfeeding and don't anticipate it will be much longer. H wanted both of us to try anti-depressants. Totally OPPOSED! I'm not a holistic hippie chick by any means, but I only like natural crap and rarely take even a tylenol (very picky about what I put into my body).

Yes I still have no clue on how to do this quote thing even though someone has told me how to do it.

Yes I think you and Prisca have pointed this out- about discussing conflicts once a week, at the end of the week. I'll start a log. And yes Prisca I am logging my UA hours!

I probably wouldn't mind talking to Dr. Harley. But if he is unwilling to read both threads, I'm not interested. There's way too much to explain in an email. I don't think I could even narrow down the last couple of months into words. And trust me I like to talk. No thread, no need for discussion. I'll rethink this after a couple of more weeks. Some things have improved and some haven't.

PS people, H has just decided He doesn't want a vasectomy and he never did. He wanted to keep the peace. Well had I known this while I was lying on the operating table being sliced open, I would have said fuse those baby makers now!! I would go on birth control but it makes me crave odd things and overt other things. I've never been on it for longer than three months over the last 10 years.

On a better note this was overall a good weekend. Friday,mmmm
Saturday, fun, fun !! Sunday - a few weird moments. And to make a long story short H held in feelings about SF and pouted about it at 11:30, I told him briefly about how it bothered me and we could discuss later and gave him SF. This could have turned into an ugly night, but ended well. I avoided having SF the prior four or five days because of ovulation timing. Sorry no more babies wanted! Vasectomy please!

Great to hear that you had some fun UA time.

It is GOOD that your H was radically honest and told you he didn't want the vasectomy. If he is having problems being radically honest with you, it is a signal that you have AO'd or DJ'd him when he has tried to talk to you in the past. I am guilty of this myself so just some food for thought.

Have you ever read "Taking Charge of Your Fertility"? It is a GREAT book that is very easy to read and you can learn how to avoid getting pregnant without using BC pills.

Call your friend up and send them to the SAA part of thie forum ASAP. We can help her bust up this A. Even if she can't save her M, she still would want to do her best to put the wheels in motion to crumble the A so that her kids won't have to deal with the OW.

Well now that it has come time for vasectomy to happen, it's all really hitting and he's scared of surgery. I didn't AO or DJ, more like a SD- no vasectomy and really no sex life. I'm sorry but I AM selfish and I DO NOT want another child and neither does he. At least I'm honest about that. Were not talking about POJA, were talking about bringing another human being into this world and putting that on top of three kids and working on our marriage. And if we have a slip, were having a baby because that's what I believe in, no such other choices available.

Yes I have read and have "Taking charge of your fertility" and I'm just not willing to take that chance. I have very irregular periods and it is hard to track or keep a pattern. I only used this method to get pregnant after one miscarriage I had.

Markos and I had a conflict over birth control, but for slightly different reasons. Anyway, Dr. Harley told us that POJA applies to this subject as well. The default of POJA is do nothing -- no sex until the method of birth control can be agreed on.

Here's what Dr. Harley told me when we were struggling with this:


Now, since it will seem to Hilltopper that you are the one benefiting from the "do nothing default of POJA," it is up to you to be sure that you are actively negotiating this with him. Plan time once a week to discuss it together, without LB -- DO NOT DEMAND THAT HE GO THROUGH WITH THE VASECTOMY. It may seem like the only option to you now, but there are many, MANY options that can be considered besides just the pill or a vasectomy.

Your Hubby doesnt want to get a Vasectomy? Hmm ... I personaly think its in his best interest if he did. !. It is surprisingly not that difficult. Takes 20mins. The only uncomfortable part is for about 2 days afterwards your testicles and scrotum feel a bit tender... but nothing a tylenol or advil cant fix. Couple that with a bag of frozen veggies to sit on over a weekend (if it gets done on a friday) He could be back to work on Monday no problem! I got my vasectomy on a friday .. and then things were a bit tender for a few days and my wife took GREAT care of me during that time. I got to sit ay my PC for the entire weekend doing photo editing! The anticipation is FAR FAR worse than that actual procedure.

If he refuses and you descide to POJA that and YOU get fixed ... I can guarentee that if he thinks he doesnt get the sex he wants now ... he DEF wont for many weeks after you get fixed. Weigh in the pros and cons ... 2 or 3 weeks without intimacy (or more) if you do .. or 3 or 4 days of no sexual intimacy if he does .. If he is worried about "changes" such as if he will be shooting "blanks" (sorry to put it so bluntly) that is not true ... nothing changes physicialy, everything is the same. The mans Semen does not change in any way shape or form .. except the sperm count which would = 0.

If I was you .. I would be encouraging him in a positive way. Be inticing about it .. make it worth his while. He may be feeling like he is giving up his manhood in some way shape or form. Help him feel that hes not.

WOuld you Like me t bring this up on his thread? I have mentioned it before and he said it was in his plan. But you seem to be relaying the message that he is reluctant. WHy is he feeling that way .. what are his concerns?

MNG

p.s. Its not even a REAL surgery. Its less then getting a tooth pulled technically. NO stiches either. Just a tiny hole the DR pulls the tube from and "fixes" it x2. The only part you feel really is the needle but that subsides within seconds afterwards.

Well at some point he was on board. or at least I thought so. He may have just said it to piss me off, I'm not sure (but we were arguing on Friday). I'm also not sure how I can entice or make someone feel better about someone adjusting their genitals, but it would definitely be more sex! He's even talked with some of our friends who have had the procedure. Well have to have a discussion at the end of the week with pro's and cons. I'm totally not up for another surgery. I was already on the operating table and that in my eyes was a missed opportunity and he should have been honest at that point. I'm NOT willing to go back through another recovery process H. This is a huge deal to me to make sure we don't have any more children. I love my three blessings and would like to keep it at that.

MrNiceGuy, if Hilltopper doesn't want a vasectomy, then he doesn't want one. We don't have to understand why. It could be a very trivial reason, but the fact is that he doesn't WANT one. It doesn't matter how easy or simple any of us think it is. It may be a great thing for you and your marriage, but it isn't a great thing for everybody.

My father regretted his vasectomy.

Encouraging Grace to push for one doesn't help their marriage. If she starts to demand a vasectomy by pushing for it, it will do more harm to their marriage than good. At this point in time, a vasectomy would be a sacrifice on Hilltopper's part.

There are several possiblities out there for reliable birth control that doesn't involve a vasectomy. There is a method of birth control out there that BOTH of them can be happy about, they just need to find it. And they need to find it together.

It's not a question of whether or not to POJA this. POJA is a way of life, NOT a procedure. If Hilltopper is not enthusiastic, then they need to negotiate. Who knows, they may end up choosing a vasectomy in the end, but it will be with Hilltopper's ENTHUSIASTIC agreement.

For us, it took about 6 weeks of no sex and a lot of negotiating, but we found a method that made us both happy. It can be done.

I'll talk to H because honestly I don't know if it was said in the heat of an argument as a vengeful tactic (it may have been exactly that, but I need to address this). But I can tell you this I will NOT BE enthusiastic about sex and hold off until we can come to an agreement. We will probably come to an agreement sooner rather than later.

As far as the vasectomy thing and it involving manhood, I've never understood it. I'll check on H's opinion of this.

Doubt it. He was willing to make a sacrifice for you, and then was honest with you that he was making a sacrifice.

Don't insist that he go through with a sacrifice. He will not be able to just get over that.

Start investigating other methods together. Look over the pros and cons of a vasectomy, but be open to his objections. Make sure he knows you're not going to PUSH that on him. And be willing to consider other options.

It's a very abusive thing to tell your spouse that you're not willing to sacrifice (side affects of the pill, recovery from a tubal), and INSIST that he must be the one to sacrifice instead.

No sacrifice is needed. Find a method that works for both of you.

Maybe you should set up an appointment with your OBGYN and the two of you go talk to him/her about various options. There's plenty out there.

PS Prisca, apparently Hilltopper was on board and open about this on his thread a couple of weeks ago. He related that information to me and seemed to excited to tell me. We'll leave it at that until I find out more information.

And it was sheer hell!

But I guarantee the outcome is far better than any other alternative. It was not so good for our relationship for us to go without sex for a few weeks. But any other alternative would have been worse. Me caving in to what Prisca wanted would have been worse. Prisca caving in to what I wanted would have been worse. I'm sure we could have found a compromise that made both of us miserable, but that would have been worse, too.

You can have no end of help learning about the many different methods of birth control and their advantages and disadvantages and how they do or don't apply to your situation. What you won't find so much of out there is help for your marriage, help to make this decision in a way that is loving, respectful, and caring for both spouses. I can tell you that there is no way to accomplish that without both of you swearing off of demands, disrespect, and anger.

Grace, here's one concept that might help. Dr. Harley talks about a procedure of Respectful Persuasion. You can find this in the book Love Busters, in the selfish demands chapter, I believe. There is even a respectful persuasion worksheet in the workbook. Since this is such an absolutely serious issue, I strongly encourage you to actually fill out that worksheet for this issue and work through the process of respectful persuasion.

Take your time. I understand there is reason to hurry here (believe me I understand it!) but the end resolution of this is overshadowed by the process you take to get there. Something Prisca and I did for awhile was designate one day a week as the day to discuss the issue. On that day we went over reading material and discussed the issue respectfully, with no pressure to come to a resolution immediately. Eventually this process led to us both being happy with what we had picked. In fact I'm in amazement right now as I realize that neither one of us is unhappy with that decision. I'm still not used to our contentment with our agreements lasting this long. But of course it does because we discussed the issue and brainstormed until we had a win-win solution. We would never have been happy about ANY solution as long as demands, disrespect, and anger were a part of the discussion. One of us, or probably both of us, would be filled with resentment right now about it.

Part of the respectful persuasion process (not all of it, but part of it) will involve explaining to your husband why you feel that your solution is in his best interest. Personally I don't feel that MrNiceGuy's post above goes far enough to explain that. He talks about how easy a vasectomy is, but just because something is easy is not a reason to do it. That explains why he thinks it is a "low-cost" decision, and encourages you to try to JUDGE Hilltopper if he does not also see it as a "low-cost," easy decision. Really we on an internet forum can never know enough about his view and your view to go through this process. You will have to talk to each other about the WHYs. You will have to be respectful of each other's feelings and of the wisdom and value in each other's point view.

That is a really tall order, especially for such a charged issue. But I can tell you that anyone who can get through this issue respectfully will find all other issues that arise later in their marriage to be much, much easier.

Quoted for Truth

And you have changed your mind on things, too. Remember that. And be very careful not to judge him for showing reluctance to keep the original agreement. Instead, use it as a time to investigate your husband, the why's about his reluctance, and empathize with him. Renegotiate.

Look I can't strap the man down for a vasectomy or force him to do anything and vice versa. Am I disappointed, yes! Am I going to judge him, not now. I just love how this man's mind works. I talked to him over the phone and during our conversation I mentioned the no sex thing until we both come to a happy agreement on birth control. My H's response "does that include oral sex." On a more serious note (even though he was serious) we agreed to discuss all our options in a respectful manner.