You are correct. "Life" happening is no excuse.


The key words there, probably, are "ended it" and "want"...I'd almost ask if he met someone in Puerto Rico, and believe the "want" part is just a matter of necessity at this point.

Time to draw the line in the sand and bring the floor up to him, so to speak.


I've felt the same way and it wasn't until I was truly ok with not being married at all costs, and my wife understood that, that things changed. In the meantime, though, it's a hard road.

Give him your list and tell him to make his choice today. He doesn't need any time, he's had (as you said) eleven weeks while living in what most would call a tropical paradise with no job, no worries and free room and board. Sheesh, must be rough!

Try not to lose your cool, but just tell him what you want to happen. I'd suggest the phone counseling because I've heard so many good things about it and it sounds like an un-biased third party needs to be brought in to right the ship.

And while you're at it, give some thought to his "complaint" about things you could improve on your end. While I don't agree with his approach to honesty, and think his foggy mind is probably blowing a lot out of proportion, sometimes there's a grain of truth buried there and a little introspection doesn't hurt. Food for thought. Take care.

This is not a false impression. Dr Harley has said expects a WH who is serious about recovery to come to the BW with "hat in hand". Your H is not serious. Give your H your conditions for recovery but prepare for Plan B.




This is not what Plan B is, DontLie. I would suggest you read up on Plan B so that you do it correctly next time.



Here

You've heard of Plan A and Plan B and even Plan D (divorce) - well, the above is Plan FU. It's not MB prescribed, though it is *sometimes* effective at least in the short term; but here's what it really means:

If you find yourself in Plan FU, you're long overdue for Plan B.

Well, we just had a disagreement about the NC Letter. Here is his version:

"OW,
We can no longer have any communication or contact with each other. I have put my family through hell and this will stop. I ask that you respect my wishes and I am saying Goodbye, Forever.
Sincerely,
WH"

I thought that he would have used the one in SAA. His version says nothing about me. I am roped into "my family."

I am afraid that the NC letter my WH wrote is saying things to me that I had hoped I wouldn't have to face. His family includes his sisters and brother, mom, aunts, uncles, children and, oh yeah, her (me-BS) too. I believe I should have been at the TOP of the list.

I (here I go again) gave him 2 samples: The one in SAA and another I found on somewhere on this forum. He never said that he was not going to use the one in SAA, especially since he has his own copy of the book. Here, now I've given him 2 samples of what to write and now WH just finished writing (copying) it. He picked the sample that I found on this forum. He is so sarcastic with asking me "Now does this meet your approval?"

I don't know what (short of me initiating it) will show him his ways and his actions and how they are not where they should be. I know about going into Plan B again. And that looks like where we are headed. Anything else before I take that (Plan B) plunge again?

I've always been lukewarm on a NC letter sent when the wayward doesn't really mean it and is using it to placate the seemingly-nagging betrayed spouse.

Given his foggy mindset, I'd guess his letter is in line.

My wife sent two and, while they sounded good, she obviously didn't mean it. The third time, I told her to file for a divorce because I was done with this mess and I didn't bother with a NC letter that time. She knows that if there is any contact whatsoever, I'm out of here. Such a thing, it seems, hasn't quite clicked with your husband, has it?

So...I don't think it really matters because he's already said he's just writing it to get you to drop it.

What about the rest of your conditions or do you get a rolling of the eyes when you mention them?

Seriously--get into counseling so you can have someone guide you and act as a referee (of sorts) when things get hairy. He really needs to agree to that, but I'm guessing he won't?

So, if he's not serious about your conditions, then, yes, I'd do a Plan B...barring some miraculous realization happening very soon, of course.

Just finished reading this whole thread. If you have not given him that list, I have something you might want to seriously think about adding to it.

Add in there you need him to tell his family the TRUTH. Make him suck it up and be honest in that way as well.

I'd be seriously planning Plan B and be 100% certain you WILL implement it this time, in every way it's meant. Only then will you get sincerity or a kiss my butt out of him, one way or another.

i dont know what to say, he is making baby steps, he wrote the letter, i think if you say to him thank you for writing the letter, i appreciate the steps that you are taking, would you consider writing some of the other things( the stuff you want him to say)... but critisisng him on his letter you may be pushing him away from you goal of getting him to open up. he may not like the mommying you are doing..0

look up what shame reaaly means and entails on the internet- it tough

my friend north told me after weeks of trickle truth from my H. that i tell him

�Do you want to stay in this marriage or not? If you want a divorce then you need to go file for one. If you don't want a divorce, then I want to get all of our cards on the table now, get everything out so that there are no more trickle truths, no more lies, no more halfways because there is no way that I'm ever going to go through this again. If I get any hint of contact again with OW, then I'm out of here. So what do you want to do?�

i said almost exactly that ...thats what was the defining moment, i kissed him on the head, told him i loved him and but that was what i could take, now he came back with the FULL LIST. i was not happy but i accepted it.

call the harleys. please ask him to call with you, i think this is your only shot before plan b. it was life changing for my serial, emotionless, selfish, H. he is a differnt person from a few conversations with her. regardless of where we end up, he is happier that he is different, it has helped him in family, friend and work.

men enjoy fixing things, when there is so much shame, it overwhelming, especially if they caused it, it hard for them to fix it, they dont know where to begin. jennifer was so easy with him, and gave him a plan. now it only works if he wants it.. just ask him to try it, then figure out your plan, its one request, you deserve at least that.

Well said, chickadee.

I hope her husband is still agreeable to making their marriage work--or at least trying. The counseling sounds critical and, as you suggested, hopefully he'll agree to such a "simple" first step.

one hour of his time. not alot to ask. could be worse, he could lose his charmed life.

DL2ME- ask him, jennifer will help you with the EP's and the rest of it. you will get a sense if he is willing to save your M after it.

At the risk of you thinking that I'm on his side (I'm not), I thought I'd play devil's advocate with what you wrote:


Did you actually ask him to copy the one used in SAA?


But did he say that he was going to use the samples, or did you ask him to use the samples? If not, then can you see where he might feel frustrated by being criticized for doing something that he thought you told him to do?

Just try to see some things from his side if you can while weeding out the fogbabble. Empathy goes a long way sometimes and it may help defuse an escalating situation.

If I was a wayward, that argument would probably be sufficient for me to try counseling.

No Stress Zone, I have had issues with him and his family within these last 4-5 years. I want to include the stipulation that he tell his family the truth. He and I have discussed this at length. He does not see anything wrong with what he has told his family. Before he quit his job and left for PR, his co-worker would tell me about how he would go off about me. WH had been using 2nd prepaid phone and I told his sister about it. She did not want to believe me, but called him to confront him about the phone. His co-Worker said that WH got really mello-dramatic to the point of almost crying on the phone saying that he did not know why I keep on insisting that he has an A phone. She called me back and I then gave her the number and she called it and left a nasty message on the prepaid phone voicemail. She never admitted to me that I was right and that he was bullcrapping her. But I paid the price. Within 5 minutes of hearing his sister's message, he called AT&T and had the number changed. That's when I lost contact with it.

But Memorial Day weekend, his family had a reunion. First I was reluctant to go but I did. WH's brother's wife sat down and had a talk with me. She told me that the rest of the family have started to realize that the problems should not be put on my shoulders and he is as much or even more to blame. She let me know that they have started to really understand. I wanted to talk to my brother-in-law but I didn't at the reunion.

I am working on the list now. I will include it to see where this issue goes.

Dont,

How are your kids doing through this?

I see, North, from the point of view you present. I did not tell him to use any particular NCLetter, I may have assumed that he would not want to "reinvent the wheel." I'm sure that Dr. Harley would agree. I will talk to WH after the Heat-Mavs game in which he, DD and DS are so engrossed. I have no problem with apologizing. I think that I've had alot of practice at doing that lately.

I think they have gotten more used to the occasional AO. We were never really fighters, we usually talked out our issues with no harsh words or AOs.

I never exposed to the kids. But, my DD just finished her Freshman year is old enough to figure out what the issues could be. I tried to engage her in conversation to see what she may know, but she did not want to talk about it. My DS is 10 and just finished 4th grade. He has had to endure WH walking out on us and then him leaving for PR without coming to see him before he left. WH called and told him on the phone. They both are really close to their dad.

I never wanted to destroy their world. I know that I didn't. He did. I don't want DD to pull away from him due to the sensitive issue involved and seek male reassurance from some guy at some college drinking party.

North, do you mean don't include the stipulation about his family?

No, didn't mean to make it sound like that.

If his telling his family the truth is important to you, then, by all means, include it. I think they should know.

from this post by North?
I think Northwoods just shortened your name to start the post with. Considering the lines between it anyway.

I might be wrong about adding that in, but if it were me? I'd have it added as one of the top of the list things to be honest. I know how my stbxh had his family thinking about me, and I'd have expected him to acknowledge to his family that what he told them was every bit as disrespectful and full of lies as everything else he told anyone. I rather equate it with a full disclosure to everyone and anyone, difference being, he got to them first.

I'm glad to hear your BIL's wife told you that they were starting to believe him, be leery of what you tell them, I would NOT trust his family.

Oh, well that makes more sense!

Yes, I was just addressing her as "Don't"...for some reason, I couldn't find her name on my screen and couldn't remember how it was spelled.