Thanks, NorthWood. I agree with you. The question is HOW do I help to turn his thinking around? What should I say to challenge his beliefs?

Surprisingly, he is not been a self-centered person. In fact, the exact opposite. Maybe this self-centered attitude arrived along with his male mid-life crisis.

We were reading some information on ADHD the other night and it addressed the issue of the inability to regulate attention to tasks. He would get angry about my being "glued" to the computer. This information explained why and how it happens, giving a medical explanation to an issue he has always blamed me for. I have asked him many times to familiarize himself with all of the medical issues that I have so he understands what I have to deal with. But then he gets upset with me for what he perceives is something I have chosen to do. An example of this happened on Saturday. I spent about 3 hours in the hot sun for our DS's football jamboree.(practice scrimmage). After we arrived home, he suggested the 3 of us go on a bike ride. I did not answer. The next day WH uses this against me as an example of how I "don't want to do things as a family." I asked WH if he thought that maybe I was pretty wiped out by being in the hot sun and did not feel up to going on a ride. He seemed to understand and see that from a different (mine) perspective. What is coming to light is that WH has had alot of resentment toward me and its starting to look as if he really has no reason to be angry with me.

I have not gotten the impression that he feels as if he was doing me a favor by returning home. He was away at his mom's for 11 weeks, and I had NO help from any of his family. He knows that I can take care of things here. The truth is he knows that I am the one doing him the favor.

I agree with you about the recovery agreement. He would not tell me which friends shared that opinion with him.

I am interested in your opinion on how I should proceed.

Why didn't you answer? A serious question, as he seemed to not "get it" and assumed something that wasn't true at all. That's not to jump on you, of course, but just to play devil's advocate.


But you can see why he would jump to that conclusion, right? Would you have thought the same? It was a mere communication lapse, but explaining the "why" earlier would have prevented any conflict later on.

And if that was an effort, no matter how paltry, to do something "right" on his part, then it may be worthwhile to acknowledge the effort even if it wasn't done how you would have preferred.

Food for thought.


Playing the other side again, but maybe he did have a reason to be angry if he wasn't hearing something that would make him think otherwise. Pretending you were him, would you have responded much differently given the same amount of information?

I cannot count the number of false assumptions that me and my wife have made of the other that were, in the end, not really an issue at all had we actually talked about the perceived conflict. We assumed too much and never bothered asking for clarification to see if our irritations held any validity at all.


For me, it was getting fed up with the game--the halfways, the kinda-sortas, the "I'm not sures" and other examples of being halfway married and halfway not. It was just saying "Look, either you go file for a divorce tomorrow or get with the program. Enough is enough because I don't need to be married this badly." I have enough mind games with our children and don't need it from an adult, know what I mean? I'd tell him to "say what you mean and decide what you're going to do, and do it now."

And as for the friends, I'd tell him to cut the two-faced crap. It's his job to stick up for his wife, and any friends that don't agree with that could hit the road. Saying one thing to your spouse and then another to your friends is, well, reminiscent of middle school antics. Call him out on that if that's what he is doing.

So there are my two-cents. It's just game-time, he's either in or out and nowhere in between. I imagine he'll understand that logic fairly well. Take care.

It's been a long, long time since I have posted on our progress toward recovery. I kept waiting for something that clearly showed that we were undoubtedly headed in the right direction toward full recovery, but I didn't get anything quite big enough in that positive direction.

The first thing I want to say is to those yet to recover. PLEASE LISTEN TO THESE EXPERTS. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!! DON'T BE LIKE ME AND WISH YOU HAD LISTENED AND TAKEN THEIR ADVISE.

OK, now to "us." As short catch-up of the situation- Almost exactly 2 years ago I discovered WH in an affair with the college GF (before me) and a few weeks later I had proof it was PA. Numerous times we went through the "it's over" and calls/texts would begin within a few weeks. He pulled a few slick numbers leaving me at home with DS while he made a trip alone or to return alone. He finally got sloppy and I found evidence of another prepaid phone for their communication. January 2011 I got sick of it all and called OWH and found out he really did not know about the A. WH got angry, packed a bag and stormed out. He returned about 2 weeks later. I was on radio show on 1/28/2011. A few days later, I packed WH's bag and took it to him at work with a Plan B letter. About 2 weeks later he was on a plane to the Carribean because he met up with OW and afterwards had an emotional meltdown after their last "goodbye" hookup. He quit his job from a payphone while waiting for his flight to leave, essentially abandoning DS and me. He remained with his mom for 11 weeks. He had been saying all of the right things, making the right promises so I let him come home. About 3 weeks after his return, OW started texting and calling his cell phone. He signed our recovery agreement, wrote OW a NC letter and then promptly changed the cell number and it stopped. Fast forward to late Sept. 2011, I found a hidden house phone bill with a slew of calls from our home phone to OW. They had been in constant contact since her first attempt after he came home and knowing I would check his cell phone records, he used our home phone. Late Nov, he offered the reason for contact that OW had developed a drinking problem and WH was encouraging her to seek treatment. The last contact I can document was 12/21/2011. Our DD switched cell carriers for an iPhone and WH decided to let his cell phone go(1/2012) as they shared an account. While WH says he has had no contact with OW, I have not found any evidence that suggests continued contact. Things have still been up and down since then.

During disagreements, he always throws up in my face the issues he has with me (work full-time outside the house.) I've asked him (knowing the answer) about his progress on our relationship and he freely and honestly admits that he really has done nothing to work toward recovery. He seems to be sitting back with his arms folded, waiting for me to "change" before he makes up his mind to do anything.

The other day, he needed to go help his cousin who is having problems with his depression. I told him that under the circumstances he should go but I did not like it and that I will need to learn to face my fears, some which may be irrational. I began to cry and he got angry and said that he asked me about going and all he wanted was a simple yes or no, that's all. It was apparent that he did not want to deal with my feelings. He does not seem to have totally and completely owned up to the A and there always seems to be a "but" after his statement of taking ownership. I still many times feel that he still just doesn't "get it." He has not totally come clean, especially about what happened when he had the meltdown and his uncle and brother made the decision (without even trying to notify me of the situation) and bought the ticket to send him to his mom. I have had so many triggers and when I have tried to talk about my feelings, he then tells me that he has them too.

A family wedding this past April was really hard. I was going to be with all of the family members who played a part in condoning the A as well as sending him away last year. During the wedding ceremony, he managed to move from where we were seated to get a better picture camera angle. Instead of returning to sit with us, he sat with his mother, 3 rows in front of us. At the reception, he danced for the first hour with our DD (who was in the wedding) and with some cousins and aunts and his mom. He finally came back to the table and then asked me to dance. I declined his invitation, and he did not like what I had to say to him about it. With regard to his family, I believe that he has told them that he has decided that since DS will soon be 12, he will stick it out until DS leaves home. I say that because no matter how "good" things are between us, whenever we get around his family, he becomes cold and sterile with me. No touching, no walk to the car, no kiss goodbye, etc.

With regard to the "work" issue, WH is still looking for work. He has not worked since he quit in Feb. 2011. I am still doing the Part-time work I was before. I do not feel bad that he has had to borrow from his family, because they helped to get him into this situation. My family has helped, but they did not hear his one side of the story and agree that he should quit his job and abandon his family. And under the circumstances he has been applying more pressure for me to work (f/t). But I can guarantee you that if he is not working and I do go full-time, he will not stay here in my house. But I don't think he quite believes that.

My areas of concern are essentially, How do I turn this ship around? Please help me!!

And I am especially hopeful to get any insight from any FWH like GloveOil who can help me understand and decipher his thought process and what they may believe is really going on as well as the next actions I should take. Thanks for listening.

Wow, nearly a year has passed and nothing has changed.

Does that about sum it up?

He still hasn't come clean to his family it seems.

He still isn't making decisions about recovery because there's no reason for him to. There are no consequences.

A $100 says he's still in contact with OW because, again, there's no reason for him not to be.

Sadly, I'd say go to Plan B and file for a divorce. You'll then have the bases covered with a financial agreement in place and some distance between you and his drama. You might consult an attorney to see what your options are.

I think you're wasting your time because nothing will change on his end until the bottom comes up and he actually fears losing something. By then, of course, you may have moved on with life. I don't sense that you're fed up yet, but wonder how much longer you are going to want to stay in this limbo. This isn't marriage at all costs.

Thanks for you honest opinion. I was afraid but expecting that you would suggest Plan B. With his attitude, I am sure it would probably be the best for me and the kids.

His family knows everything that happened including things that I don't. What does he have to "come clean" with them about?

DontLie2Me, I'm sorry for where you find yourself with respect to your husband's apparent lack of "on-boardness" as well as the tortuous path by which he's arrived even to the point where he's at now.

I don't think I've much if any insight to offer as to your husband's state of mind, as our post D-day trajectories have been very different, and I'm pretty out of my depth in terms of MB approaches when it comes to WHs who leave home or get into "Plan B" territory.



It takes two to be onboard, I realize, and if he's not, then things aren't going to work. You can't make him get himself right, you can only take care of your side of things, as the best way to improve the dynamics between the two of you. In that regard, you might want to look at how you engage with him, just day-to-day. Some of the things that you said above, or the way you described them, jumped out at me a little bit, as veering into the territory of disrespectful judgements (which don't help coming from a WS or a BS), assumptions (where direct communication might be better), mixed signals (saying he can go but that you don't like it, instead of using POJA), and passive-aggressive comments (such as your telling him that you'll just have to learn to face your fears, when what you might really mean is that you want him to help you face your fears). BTW, I'm not harshing on you here, just tossing out some thoughts, none of which is any panacea, I know.

But I haven't really followed your story, and I really don't want to steer you wrong or give you half-baked suggestion, so better for your to hear from others who've got more experience & knowledge relevant to your particular circumstances.

Thanks, GloveOil, for your comments. And, yes they are very helpful. I did not realize the implications of what I'm saying to WH. You are correct when I said that I have to learn to "face my fears" because I really do feel that he should be helping me to overcome them with loving encouragement and reassurance that he will not have contact with OW or likewise anyone else. He articulated that he would have preferred for me to say "no" than for me to say "yes" and say what I was feeling. And I do fear that (without a cell phone) he will ask to borrow his uncle's or cousin's phone and call me, but slip a call to OW as well. I really want to ask his family to check their records or make them available for me to assure me that he has not done that. If I did ask for the records, I doubt that they would either let me see them or they wouldn't tell me if they checked and found calls to OW.

I have started to formulate in my head what I will need to say to start Plan B again, especially after no apparent big disagreement.

In looking at the "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders" analogy, he seems to be a Renter. While this helps with regard to understanding how much he may be willing to do for the relationship, I don't know if there may be a particular approach that I should take with him.