No AO. She has known this question has been in my head since day 1 and kind of gave me the answer weeks back but never satisfied me with more difinitive info. She took a few minutes to jog her memory, reviewed what was a 5-6-7 yr relationship and gave me what she felt was an somewhat accurate assessment times they were intimate.

It was not pleasant to hear, but I needed from her mouth. Hers was a EA and she said didnt turn into a porn star for him. But, there was plenty of contact suffice to say.

She told me she will spend eternity evening out acct with me. Shes done a pretty good job in the last month.

Im getting close to the next phaze of this thing. Just had to have an answer for that questin to move on.

AOs are so in the past. I was calm. She has reached a level of confidence in speaking about the past years so it was sort of easy talking about it.

It was matter of fact, not a interogation.

Again, I think she felt more relief on her part.

The A, in my mind, is in the past. NO further questions, your honor.

Great that you're in a good place, MS.

But (why is there ALWAYS a "but")......you must remember you are still on the roller-coaster. Do not unbuckle your safety-belt yet, okay?

So celebrate today and keep working the process.

Mike all of this sounds great man, It seems your and my road have met. My FWW has started to shape back into the Wife of my dreams. Our relationship is so much better because of POJA, PORH and all I and now she is learning from Dr Harleys books. EN's, boundaries and so much more that allows us to come to resolutions with both of our interests in mind.
It will struggle some still but keep at it and enjoy that new bride.

My wife was speaking with a female friend who is going thru a rough time in her marriage (this friend doesnt know nor will ever know about FWW A). Her husband is getting ready to leave and he told me so about 2 weeks ago. My FWW was commiserating with her and in trying to made her feel better my FWW said the she and I have had problems and we were working them out. Now, I had problems with my marriage for years mostly dealing with affection and intimacy. And my FWW has known about these issues for the entire length of her A. My FWW, however, had many ENs that I wasnt meeting, but instead of telling me she got them met elsewhere. Kinda took offense to the description "we had problems and are working them out". We are only working them out because she got caught. Didnt say anything, kept these thoughts in my head, but it was glossing over some serious things I took offense to . Whatever, she is a tough spot, my FWW, becuase we are trying to maintain many relationships who will never know of the A and it being such a big part of our recetn past it must be tough avoiding any reference to it. Im nitpicking, I know.

I used to have as my epilogue:

If you always tell the truth, you never have to work to keep your stories straight!

You and your FWW have chosen to recover your marriage, without a widespread revelation to family and friends of the entire story. Doing so and keeping the "lid" on what went on before will present challenges. This will probably not be the last time that one of you cadges on an answer in a way that seems "unfair" to the other. Concentrate on being truthful with each other first. Discuss ways to approach delicate situations beforehand, so you both can be comfortable in what is revealed.

...and, since it bothered you, you should talk about that conversation (O&H) with your wife so that you don't start to harbor any resentment. No DJ or AO's, of course but it sounds like you're already getting a good handle on that lately.

Yes Mike, I get it. Bring this up to your W. Dont hide feelings as talking about them are your obligation under the PORH. Exposure shouldn't be limited to whom your comfortable telling. The truth is the truth and it is what it is.

We are talking a lot still about us. Im living right now with trust and fear issues that are completely foreign to me. They are almost making me unable to function my daily life. And, I trust she has NO interest in OM in any way. I do believe she despises him. I really do. But, since she has been able to shock me and surprise me with this and it was so out of the character of the girl I used to know, I dont know what she is capable of doing. I told her this. And she said she understands my feeling and cannot blame me for having them and is committed to making me feel safe everyday. I get text msgs and she is with female friends when shes not with me or home or at work. She is working overtime to move us passed this. I know it. But the brain is a tougher customer to convince.

I will say this: I love her more today than ever and THAT I tell her all the time. She is now the woman I missed for a lot of years. I told her this too.

Been there Bro. Your only in the early stages. As it gets better the fear issues will subside. As far as the "trust" issue. It will get better and there will be a degree of trust. But because of all of this you have changed and that wont change. Thats good and bad. Good because what you hold dearest you will hold closer. Bad because it opened your eyes to a world you didnt expect. Life has changed Mike. Trust isnt something you or any of us should ever truly give our spouse. Openness and honesty is the replacement. Transparency is the trust. Making sure EN's get met is the insurance and the compensation.

Mike,

Fear is rooted in control. we fear what we have no control over. When we accept that, it is easier to deal with and overcome our fears.

We cannot control our spouses, even though our natural inclination after an affair is to try to. It's rooted in fear of having the same thing happen to us again and we want to control it/them. As we begin to really trust the FWS, we begin to no longer fear. Now, those of us who are BS' have a reasonable fear of a repeat offense, but we cannot control the spouse. in order to recover, we have to begin giving them opportunity to rebuild certain trusts while realizing that certain other trusts will never be given again (and probably should have never been there to begin with.

Make sense?

CV

The only fear to fear is fear itself. Thanks for the posts Hils and CV, poetic in its message. And whats glaring in both and I just read them to my wife, is the fact that the trust I gave should never have been given way back when. Anyway, have a good weekend everyone, no AOs from this kid. Just moving the coaster forward.

Hi everyone. I guess the system was down for a long time yesterday and it made me re-register under a new name. So be it.

Trying so hard to keep my fears in check and under O&H policy I had to tell her about it. Again, no AO, but I spoke to her last night about fears I have and a lot it stems deals with the unknowns I have. For instance, was there ever "I love yous" between her and OM? On one hand, if not, then what they had was one type of relationship, if they were on a I love basis then it was another. She refers to what they had in the beginning as a relationship. Mostly between the hrs of 10am-2pm and a smattering of dates at night throughout the years. I asked her about how she felt when OM and OMW went thru several rounds of in vitro with surrogates until the 3rd time when it finally took. My FWW said it got her a little upset that while she was in this "relationship" he was still going thru building a family with his wife. Then she realize she already had a family and it made her less mad, but nonetheless, to finally hear some detail, not dirty details, but emotional detail from my FWW made me feel good.

I think we agreed together this OM used my wife for a lot of years during what she thought was a "relationship" and especially the latter years when there was less of one. She told me when she's alone and thinks about it she if almost driven to tears that she let this go on for so long for so little return emotionally and monetarily as I discussed she stuck around him as an employee for many years and really has little to show for it.

I told her last night about my fear that I spend most of my day thinking about her and him and theres little I can do about it. She agrees it still new and as you all have said, T&P will take its course and things will get less painful. It already has. But, I so curious about the early years of their thing and not the dirty details, but just what was it like for her. Her feelings? I firmly believe she berated me to him and Id like to know more about that. I told her the magnitude of her A in terms of length cannot just disappear from my mind after 5 weeks of intense affection and other nice things shes done. My biggest fears is I cannot put this behind me and Ill harbor that resentment that is spoken about in the book for life. And if I cant get it under control, I may not leave her now, but I'll be living a lie and will not live that way for ever.

She just read this last post, as I let her read them all, and she got scared about the last line about me potentially leaving. I had to inform her that Im working diligently to remove from my memory the worst betrayal a human being can endure and many lesser humans would have said sayanara on 5/8. Obviously she knows all this and is part of this process. And, again, has been wonderful. And, as I have said, all of this stuff is in in head and with all of your help, its getting much better.

I didnt want to scare her with that last line as I already told her in a AO weeks back that I just may stick around to see my youngest off to college and Im out. So me leaving down the road cannot be too foreign a concept.

She wont read this post, but between you and me, my goal is to love her and forgive her and make this marriage better than it was pre-A while trying to lessen the damage of the A. And, if it becomes something I cant resolve in my head, I will always have the option to make other moves. Right now, my kids are number one and their happiness is proportionate to me be here and happy. So let the ADs kick in for Gods sake and let me be happy, a good Dad, and the best husband for as long as possible.

Mike,

I'm gonna copy & paste a post that I made to someone else here a week or so ago, because I think it's fitting...


Mike, if you want to make sure your marriage survives and resentment doesn't kill it, PLEASE, PLEASE do the online program. That is HOW. If you work the program, IT WORKS. It IS the fastest horse which, of course, makes it the safest bet. I can't think of a reason not to do that, can you?

Mrs. W

Link~~~> Marriage Builders Online Program


Mrs. W

Thank you. We will go thru the program at first chance. Coming from someone in your shoes, MrsW, my FWW is excited to do it.

We will report along the way.

mss

I'm glad to hear it, Mike! I hope that "first chance" means VERY SOON. Make it top priority -- your marriage and family are worth it!

You know there is a post on the recovery forum right now that I think your FWW should read as a "cautionary tale". The poster's name is "SassySue" -- 2.5 years after the affair she is still laying blame at the feet of her husband for her choices!

I read that post and thanked God that I arrived at the MB forums 10 days post contact. Reading and posting here has taught me so much and has helped our marriage immeasurably. Dr. Harley says it is very common [read: the rule, rather than the exception] for women who have affairs to continue to blame their husbands -- THIS forum and the MB Program prevented me from remaining at that very damaging place. Taking responsibility for ALL of your choices is VERY empowering.

I wish your FWW would post. I'd welcome her and help her in any way possible.

Mrs. W

MrsW, my FWW doesnt blame me nearly as much as she takes it herself. She understand fully that she wronged me way worse than the ENs that I evidently in hindsight, never gave her. So, she in no way blames me. Her tale is one of getting caught up in something that was good then not so good, but then realizing or concluding that it was better than any alternative. She despises that person who was her. Ive said this many times, she is doing remarkable in meeting her just compensation to me to date, I swear. Everything I could dream of in all phases of our life. All the while holding on to a deep shame, disgust, embarassment, hurt, and genuine remorse while continuing on her with her life. I find her remarkable, truly. Yet, my complexes are within my head and thats where Im fighting the fight.

Mike... Buddy, brother... You gotta get the breaks on your cranial diarrhea. Your emotions will run all over the place, and believe it or not, not every thought and feeling needs to be broadcast to your W, or the forum. You gotta slow down dude , or you are going to gas out.

Breathe, focus, and redirect the emotional crazy, ok?