thanks for tip brutally honest,

Just had text from h. Hes been very vague all day about where hed be this evening. I texted him and asked could I come meet up with him, where was he. He said 'no thanks enjoying some quiet time'. He then said he was meeting a trusted male friend of ours. I would class him as an ally of mine, in spite of my bad judgement with friends recently! Said he needs some time to 'consider his life and where he's going'.

Could he be choosing between us? I could speak to and 'feel out' the friend, but its risky.

Have been a space cadet all day and any people who speak to me are really annoying.

Am starting to realise why my h is so annoyed when I ask him stuff sometimes.. People who demand your full attention (aka me) are the absolute worst ones.

Very odd happenings last night. I had not told him where id be at end of the night, because when i suggested I 'could' stay at mums, he said 'up to you'. In spite of not knowing where I was, and that id been using mobile to text him, he called the landline of our house, which I didnt answer, letting it ring out (to see if i was
there?).

He never called my mobile. This was at approx pub closing time, so I got into my car and whizzed round to ow house in case i could catch him going in via taxi (his car at our place). Of course I could have missed him leaving her house in taxi.

Then swooped back to our house where the lights were now on. He was now home alone. Why would he need to see if I were home, if coming home and alone? Other poss is that he was after a lift and didnt want to disturb if i was in mums. This could have been done by text though and he doesnt ask me for anything lately. Have ordered a GPS and VAR, should be here few days.

Indie glad you got the monitoring equipment, hope you manage to find some concrete proof of the A.
Whats your plan once you get the evidence? Are you prepared for exposure?
Just to let you know the boards tend to be quiet at the weekend so hang on in there till the vets are back on Monday.

Found some useful uk companies that specialise in private detective business and catching unfaithful sposes I don't think your going to need them as you got the monitoring stuff but just in case let me know.

I dont know. He was being perfectly vile this morning. Treating me like I was crazy and clingy and paranoid because I offered him a lift. Having to keep a happy face on is fairly difficult but i am.

Rehashing his entire personality in my head. Ive always held him to be very intelligient, self aware and honest above reproach.

However this week Ive discovered that he has lied to me from the very start of our marriage about money, so he could indulge selfishly in whatever he wanted. He wasnt grieving for a friend then.

Hes also had to either quit or been made redundant from a number of jobs and start again. Its always been because hes been taken advantage of, people are jealous of him, people bully and push him out. I have supported all decisions realting to his job happiness, and made a number of sacrifices.

While snooping this week I found some emails from an old job in which a perfectly fine piece of constructive criticism was given to my h. He compltely went over board and refused to work with the guy again in his response.

Its always someone elses fault, if you dont agree with him you're wrong..

I am very much feling today that I would just be better off without hm.

But ive loved him almost half my life and it will a tough decision and I dont know if I can actually make it.

Also find myself considering reconcilliation just to get at her, which is not like me. I am classier than that.

Thanks so much for throwing out a lifeline, btuallyhonest. I see from the time of your post that your are getting about as much sleep as i am!

My sister wants to go up to the hotel from the receipt with me to check things out. Me to him 'was it a doulble room; Him : 'No' Me 'Another lie'

When you do get the VAR and GPS tracker hide it well there have been occasions when they come lose or found for other reasons. Start a journal collate all the evidence, keep it off the computer and somewhere very safe, always be aware of him trying to catch you out. Password protect your files.

hey indie,

I think its hard sometimes being in the UK where in all honesty there isnt much of a colture against A as there is in the US, the brits have a "everyone minds their own business" approach to A, family doesent get involved and friends arent as aggressive in supporting people end the A, and to top it all off legally there isnt anything in place a part from naming the OW in a divorce wich lets face it doesent really mean much when your marriage just ended.
My H used a Travel lodge, thats how classy the A was, so I am not sure how much info you can get from seeing the hotel.

its one thing if your H is acting in a predictably wayward way as a result of the A but its something else if the trust and immaturity issues he has have been there even before the A. I think that you can work with him and make him a better, happier person but he has to recognise his issues and by the sound of it he has never been able to do that. I would stick to the catching him out plan with some evidence then go nuclear exposure, what reaction do you expect to get from your friends and family?

If he refuses to giver her up then go dark plan B on him and take that time to think over what you want from life and work on recovering from the hurt you are going through now.

Hope you have a better evening today.

ps the vile treatment thing is honestly part of the Wayward behaviour handbook. My WH never ever ever said a bad word to me before the A, he used to be so respectful and caring even when i didnt deserve it. He was reserved and never made a scene, chased me for cuddles all day and got depressed if i didnt kiss him atleast once a day. fastforward to his A and not only did i get called names, i got pushed away if i wanted a cuddle and got called lympet as according to him i was clingy, got screamed at in public and even got hit once, he was a monster.

Dont take anything your WH does right now to heart I promise you if it wasnt for him having an A he would not be treating you like this. He is a WAYWARD and he is acting like a person on crack.

When a person of the lie has constructed a "house of cards" and it starts to crumble around them, they become desperate. The chaos and ruin is never their fault. They have NO INSIGHT into why their life is unraveling. Do not expect any insight from this man at this time.

Please, be careful.
His vile words could become something worse.

This is not to say there is no hope.
I am saying, he has extra work to do because he has constructed a life build on a foundation of lies, not just the adultery.

You need to set the "return to the marriage" bar especially HIGH for this WH of yours.
I assume you want to avoid a miserable "rest of your life" marriage based on lies.


Feelings will change daily.

Hang in there.
Take EXCELLENT care of yourself.
Protect yourself in all ways.
Emotionally.
Spiritually.
Physically.
Financially.

You are important and your life matters.

Careful with setting up the spy stuff in her house, indie. If you're caught it's an invasion of privacy.

Of course, if her phone is laying right there...and she's in the bathroom... Although unfortunately, I strongly suspect that her phone will be as glued to her hip as your H's is to his.

SORRY KNOW THIS IS TOO LONG!!

Thanks Xau, did lots of password stuff last night.

Brutally Honest - I expect the affair being roundly condemmned, friends family everyone. His parents are very close to me, OW's parents dont like his babysitting for her (I had thought that was 'old fashioned' Ha!) I dont know how active people will be, though. They may get some misplaced compassion for the grieving etc.

It will be full exposure too. I have been so puzzled and couldnt understand why I was losing my life because of all the secrecy. OWs children will lose another man in their life, who could have been there with me in tow, because of the secrecy. The kids grieving paternal grandparents will be roundly horrified (her MiL doesnt like her anyway). I am most worried about my dad killing my h - he wont support any reconcilliation. My mum and sister say its not clear cut. Sometimes it feels clear cut one way then the other. Other times I wish for a time machine so I could go post on here back when I first started feeling really unhappy.

Secret secrets are no fun, secret secrets hurt someone.


My h doesnt speak to his brother over a very minor spat 15 years ago. If he wants me, as well as insisting on no contact, counselling and full transparency, I am considering making him apologise to his bro. His bro has invited him to his wedding this year and asked him in person too. My h 'wished him all the best' but refused.
I dont expect it will be sincere, but if he agrees to be civil, apologise, and go to the wedding, it will show me he's serious abot facing up to his mistakes and flaws. Plus his parents will be made very happy.

And someone should get something out of all of this.


BH - how is your other half behaving towards you now? Is it worth it?

You know, I think you're right! Also been remembering things all day about her. The way she liked other peoples boyfriends when we were younger, Her asking me if 'I really could give up children" Her promising me she would tell him to include me more with babysitting etc, and doing nothing. Him insuting me, the way I look, my intelligience, being 'boring' in front of her.....

Indie,

This is what betrayal does to you. It makes you rewrite what you thought was your life. It makes you do and think things that are completely out of character.

It is good that you recognize this. Keep it in check and live your life in a way that you can be proud of. Like the classy person that you are. Don't get pulled down to their level ... you will regret it later.

Right now, keep your H and OW feeling comfortable ( as in not suspecting you of snooping) so that you can find out what is really going on.

Then you can make the decisions about your future.

Have you thought about putting a VAR under the sofa? For the times when you are out? Maybe he is actually calling and not texting when you are not around.

Have you tried to see his phone bill online? I was able to set up an online account for my H phone without his knowledge.
I pretended to be him as I set it up online. It was easy since I knew all the personal details necessary. I don't know the legality of this ... but I felt I was OK given that it was part of the marital property.

Stay strong.

Indie, I am not sure about privacy laws here there might be a problem with my suggestion, she doesent sound like a nice person at all, how did her H pass?

As far as my WH behaviour towards me goes, its much better, he doesnt call me names, reject me or anything like that, he hit me last year and i called the police straight away as i was not going to put up with that behaviour especially since in 10 years of marriage he had never laid a finger on me, this worked and shook him to the core, since then he has not had any angry outburst at all phisical or verbal.
He chases me for cuddles all the time and its me thats cut off right now not him. I am at the stage where unfortunately due to numerous excuses and weakness in character i did not follow the MB plan and therefore find myself 3 years post A unhappy and depressed. Had I understood MB principals at the start there is no doubt i would be in much better shape married or on my own.
I am reading up on MB on my own at the moment trying to get a good understanding of the principals, he has noticed this and checking the pc history bar i have noticed he has been reading up on mb material (not forum) so I am hoping to have a good talk with him soon as to tackling the MB principals together.

I think it is worth it if you love that parson and if you want to be married to that person and still beleive in the vows you made when you got married (for better or worse). What your limit of tollerance is, thats up to each person how many compromises they are willing to make. To me a life with no children would be a hard one to cope with.

Your family sounds great, glad you will be able to rely on them when all this kicks off.

Pepperband I have a feeling your wisdom is well earned. Your post about the list made me cry. It is just the sort of gesture my h used to love making, I would endure anyhting to get that man back. Have no idea who this new stranger is.

Your post about the steps to adultery made me sick, because I know they are true.

He is a bit of an overeager boyscout. Cannot resist going above and beyond to help people, likes people to think him salt of the earth. His giver used to exasperate me, thats how bad it was. He made too many sacrifices. Blames me for them too. I took a lot though and forced things through.

He thought he could live his friends life for him. Thought he could watch over his kids and his wife - and all the practical day to day stuff that entails - and yet still be a good husband to me. I thought it would pass. I am as stupid as he is.

He was arrogant. I know that even when the dangerous feelings came, he will have stuck 'loyally' to the 'duty' he undertook. He will have vowed to himself that he could handle it.

Pride comes before a fall.

Pokerface - I have no idea how to do that with his phone account. Do I just visit the providers website?

Thansk brutalyhonest, My family is great. The idea of moving away scares me. She should move.

I dont know why I thought shed turned into the virgin mary because shed been widowed. My h used to hate her actually. Ive always liked her because she is fun. Her h died in a very sudden tragic accident. We were all knocked sideways. Me and my h didnt really do anything, not even cook, for months. My h's best friend was my good friend too and I loved him very much. I cried daily. I wasnt allowed to be selfish in my grief though.

Need to read more about Plan A and B. I am already sick of smiling.

I wonder if she thinks his voice is sexy when he calls her, like I do. The first time he called me up for a date I nearly swooned. What am I saying. Everyone thinks his voice is sexy. She has definitely said so. He definitely calls her.

Yes. verizonwireless.com or sprint.com or whoever the provider. Or call his cell provider and ask them how to register for online account.

I suspect that you may get all the proof you need for exposure once you have the usage logs. i.e. "just friends" don't call/text each other all hours of the day and night.

This is what proved it for me. Calls all day long and into the night. That was all I needed.

Indie,

PLAN for a proper exposure and start now.

Start to get your list together.

Do NOT warn or threat exposure. This allows them to spin their story and discredit you as just a jealous wife.

Exposure is done all at once. And should be completely unexpected.

Be prepared for H to be furious. He will say things like ... I was going to try to work it out with you but now you have destroyed that... blah blah blah.

Do not let this throw you. You have done nothing but state the truth and ask for help in recovering your M.

Try to find the link for exposure letters and prepare what you will say or write. Sorry I don't have a link for you ... I will try to find one.

Do your work ahead of time and do it right.

Post your plan here first. We can help you avoid making the mistakes that we made.

Start your plan now.

It will take more than that with me I suspect. He was very upfront and honest about the level of texting and phoning initially 'What do you expect her to do when she's so upset' 'The night are hardest for her' 'Why arent you calling her and texting her as much as I am?'. Now he says he isnt telling me anything or talking to me, because 'what is the point'

I have a feeling now it was a slow burning EA from the first months of bereavement. A year after the death he gave me the no kids talk. He couldnt explain why he didnt want them very well though. I accused him of trying to make me break up with him. He made me pay dearly in guilt for this accusation.

Now my faith in my insticts has returned. At that time i told him i couldn't understand him at all and I was seriously considering leaving him. I told him I loved him more than life itself and that I wanted him to be happy. I told him he would not be happy if I spent my life resenting him because he couldnt even explain his swift change of heart.

He took a few hours to process, came home all loved up. Said he didnt want to lose me, said he would try to encourage good feelings towards kids by being around them more.

I see now it was a great coup for him. He had shown a dedicated effort to her that he had tried to get me to end the relationship in a shame free way for them. He had got me to agree to his babysitting for his mistress at the same time.

Indie,

I understand the dynamics here of him losing his DF and her losing her DH.

I also understand your H wanting to take care of his DF family.

I get all that and it breaks my heart for all of you.

You are not being unreasonable in wanting your H to be around for YOU.

It is NOT reasonable for your friend to expect YOUR H to meet all her needs. This is what family is for.

That said...what do you do? You can walk away and let your H become his DF or you can fight for your marriage. FWIW, I think you should do everything you can to save your M. Even if you don't succeed, you know you tried your hardest.

MB is your best chance for saving this. It is also your best bet at making you a stronger person and being able to recover yourself... no matter the outcome.

Have you read all the articles? Keep reading - start at the beginning.

Hugs