Right Brutallyhonest. It is also about protecting yourself from his toxic behaviour and thus completely depleting any love that you have left for him.

He leaves NOT you.

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He leaves NOT you. [/quote]

Even if I would prefer the support of my family? Im not sure the reason behind this concept. Going to do some reading...

Yep. You don't want him to be able to say that YOU left HIM, for starters. Next? It's your house too, right? Why should YOU, the innocent party, have to leave your home for HIM, the guilty party? Then there's always what you've already mentioned: don't give him the room and freedom to carry on in YOUR home.

Going home to mother is not the kind of support you want right now. Stand your ground.

Indie,

If he makes the choice to leave the M because he is not willing to meet your conditions, then HE leaves the house. The house is part of the M. You stay. Leaving the M includes leaving the marital house.

This does not mean that you cannot have the support of your family and to stay with them whenever you wish.

Got it. Thanks god for you all.

He's just tried trapping me again with his circular arguments of why he can neither stay nor go.

He says he cant stay because I am unhappy - translation, I know I am neglecting you but I just want you to be ok with it.

He says he cant go because 'its not as easy as that to just throw away a big part of your life' - translation you meet most of my needs and I want you to hang around constantly waiting for me so I can be happy getting a few needs met elsewhere as well.

I said he can stay and I will work with him to make us both happy.

I said if he is just too miserable to stay, he should go, the door will be left open.

Had a look at EN's and think his top five are:
1. Admiration - he'll do a favour for anyone if they sing his praises, but criticism turns him into a swirling vortex. I think this one is where the OW has me beat.
2. Physical attractiveness. He used to go on about my looks all the time and even now when he's using put downs, he compliments me to other people when he thinks I dont know. This is my strong point I would say and I wandered past him in a wee nightie last night that got a very gratifying double take.
3. Affection - this was and is being met, though probably elsewhere too.
4 domestic support - he likes being comfortble at home and with a nice meal. Has just said he only goes out to avoid criticism, which I think true. We are both terrible housekeepers though. She is a neat freak. If I dont know whether hes going to be home as well, I dont plan nice food.
5.Recreational companionship. The closest people in his life are drinking budies. The pub is the centre of his world, because sport and quizzes and praise are there. When I scaled down on drinking, because we're not in our twenties any more, I think this damaged how fun he saw me as being. She drinks like a fish.

He talks about financial support a lot, but I think this is more based upon admiration. He wants to be seen to be doing more than he actually is.

Her superior financial sitch is a draw right now, but he would actually be very unhappy playing second fiddle.

I see now, I didnt admire him enough and nit picked. His doing huge favours for the OW in her vulnerable state was doubly dangerous then. I then badgered him about the things he was neglecting.

Admiration is a toughie, because how do you admire the way he is behaving right now? Id raher make him twenty stews and iron every faric thing in the house

Off to see the widow now..

I would not allow him to pull you into his drama, indie. The next time he starts that, switch the subject.

"I'm so sorry you feel that way, dear, and I know it's something we can tackle together. Would you like a nice stew for dinner tonight?"

"I'm so sorry you're feeling so down right now, dear, and I know we can solve this together and make a great marriage. Can I get you some tea?"

Etc.

The anniversary of OW H's birthday tomorrow. Apparently neither of them plan to mark it particularly. hes out 'by himself' she has just cancelled our plans because she hasnt slept the last few nights.
Very irritating. Cant go snoop either,its too bright, too conspicuous and he would just say changed his mind and needed to check on her. The postman needs to hurry up with my equipment.

Love it. I told him to call me if late too because I will worry if not.

Ticks the affection box and helps me somewhat.

You don't know this. They could very well have plans that they have not shared with you.

Do you have a trusted friend who can drive past her house to see if he's there? If he is there, I would make it a point to be 'worried about her' because of her H's birthday, so you just decided to swing by and check on her. Like your H is doing.

Oh it's total BS, they are together but I get the feeling she was sounding me out. Dont want to sound any more alarm bells with them, since I wont get anything concrete tonight. A few days ago I told a worried male friend that I was worried about my h, very dark moods and strange behaviour (which is true far as goes) A few days earlier I had told OW that we were happier than ever to wind her up. When cancelling our plans she said she was 'worried about' my H. then repeated what I had said to the friend. I just said I was too and that he is happy one minute, preoccupied the next.

There isnt anyone I trust aside from my sis an theyd know her car a mile away.

Everyone is too known to each other

Have you considered a PI? That may be your fastest, best way to get the info on this.

Yes, not really got the funds though - although I admit, dont know what the going rate is.

The main drawback to PI is they are very open about spending time together. In the beginning they saw it as genuinely innocent so are always defending his right to drop by spontaneously and staying for hours. They use the grief card and anyone who doesnt understand that has a dirty mind - they would say.

I see im not as welcome tho,

Even if PI saw them in a cafe or bar theyd back themselves up to the hilt, need to talk away from her kids so as not to upset them.Though i suppose they might kiss on the street in certin parts of town.

I feel it needs solid evidence to crack them as its public opinion will bring them down. They need to be defenceless.

If they went to a hotel it would work, but for all i know that was a one off. Probably because she has the run of her house once kids in bed.

Might they be indiscreet on the doorstep for a PI? I dont see it as likely because her neighbours are her parents friends.

Its a good plan b if the gadgets dont get the goods. Hoping they arrive tomorrow.

Just dropping by to give you a big "you go gurl!" It's musical to hear your fighten' words!

Cheers, I have to be pushy for a living. And the other bad people ive taken down never promised to love me forever while i was all wide eyed and wearing a �2000 dress.

Especially as the put downs hes been giving me lately are tailored along the lines that im dizzy and useless

He should really know better. but then hes with a skank tonight instead of with me so whattaya gonna do?

I think she is trying to get him to get me to leave. He wants me to just hang on in misery. After the failure of his little rant earlier to make me mad, or plead, he left. I actually saw him holding his head in his hands as he walked down the path!!

There was just enough time for him to call her before she called me to cancel our plans. Then I was scouted out for my opinion - not because she suspects me of snooping after all maybe but because she suspects him of being what he is - a cheater.

I dont think she trusts him now after my kissing and telling. I hope they are having a lovely time!!

Indie If you decide to go through a PI I found a uk nationwide company (I don't know where in uk you are I'm in London) that specialises in affairs. I came across them when I was looking for the monitoring equipment I'm happy to pass on their details. You can always give them a call ask for a quote and see if they can help in your circumstances.

I really hope the monitoring equipment will reveal something just don't tell your WH how you got your I formation until you have a lot of concrete evidence so your exposure can be truly nuclear and they won't have a chance to make any excuses.

Did you tell him that you would prefer that he not spend time with her? Have the two of you talked about this at all?

Just confronted him. Found a text 'Just to let you know i am in love with you'. He text back 'love you too.'

Thought I would do it before he deleted it.

With the receipt is pretty good.

Am still going do the surveillance thing