Imho it's a case of hysterical bonding b/w them. A fantasy and SHE is however, a woman who is out of a husband now, and is maybe wanting somebody LIKE him to take his place.

I'd get a PI on it though. and I'd do the var in his car. Shut this affair down now. It's so hard and sad to think that she's stooping (posow) THIS low.

You know, she's unchained the KISA in him biig time w/her being his bf's widow. She is the poor widow who hasn't a man to help her anymore. She's centering on that to be what makes him respond to her.

and she will USE that card until the cows come home to explain away their "relationship" with each other, thus you need to get SOLID proof that this is an affair when you SHUT IT AND HER DOWN!

Sadly, I'd not have any mercy on her. She is trying to preserve herself and maybe her lifestyle now (if no man and he was top income earner in the relationship) and might stop at nothing to do so.

Make their "friendship" seem VERY VERY UGLY when you get the proof and expose. She is trying to make it into a nauseating affair story where "a grieving widow finds love in an unexpected place". That's how they want to paint this. Sad and scary.

quote=pokerface]
PLAN for a proper exposure and start now.

Start to get your list together.

Do NOT warn or threat exposure. This allows them to spin their story and discredit you as just a jealous wife.

Exposure is done all at once. And should be completely unexpected.[/quote]

List of who I would contact do you mean? Do I call or go round in person. Would prefer in person. When do I do that? After confronting him but not having told him I would?

My list would be
OW's inlaws
OW's parents
OW's sister
OW's friends, a married couple where the h had some sort of mysterious falling out with OW, but her wife is still friends.
H's parents
H's brother
H's cousin and our near neighbour.
H's godparents, who he respects massively
A guy in H's pool team, who no doubt would spread the word.
Our one remaining couple friends
A trusted male friend who i think is getting suspicious anyway
Two friends who went to school with H and deceased friend, recently reintroduced back into his life.
My dad
My brother and his wife ( oh god)
My sister's husband - a longstanding friend of mine, h's and ow.

Telling my lovely, crazy, overprotective father will also unleash the news on a legion of uncles, aunts and cousins.

I expect his mother will do the same with their extended family. In fact I know so.

I am glad our grandparents are dead. Truly.

Pokerface, maritalbliss, Pepperband, all of you, you are lovely, you are my lifejacket.

I dont take marriage lightly, I think you have to earn your way out, do everything that can possibly be done before quitting. I always felt this way but was at sea without a map. Thanks for the map guys.

I think our marriage was pretty good pre-bereavment on the whole. It was far too independent and liberal, but this was something we both agreed to because we had married so young. In fact our marriage was strong enough, because we were each other's first priority, to 'withstand the strain' of ib and still remain happy on the whole.

I see now though it left huge gaping holes.

I will insist (besides pretending she and her children dont exist) on the following
Children.
A joint bank account
FULL transparency of all he does and where goes and what he has
joint agreement on all decisions.
no opposite sex friends

Yeah it is sick.

I dont have mercy for her, im not a saint and im not stupid.

She manages to do the necessary things for her kids

She manages to take increasingly good care of her hair and appearance

She has just built herself a lovely big new house with life insurance cash, and made great investments

She holds down a demanding senior job and has recently won a major battle with her bosses over a dispute

She is far from helpless and is not to be underestimated

I know for a fact she underestimates me and she is about to get woken up.

posow? KISA ? Still getting the hang of the shorthand im afraid?

btw her kids just FOLLOW him around. Little girl in particular is obsessed. How could she do this to them

He would make a great father.

Just got on to this, did you suspect foul play!!

Indie you are doing well because to be honest you have a good attitude towards this process so far you are committing to destroying this A by getting the concrete evidence and planning the exposure while holding a good poker face all the way.

Just wanted to say well done so far and hope that the secrecy part will end soon for you.

As far as suspect in my case it was a gut feeling and i always trust my gut feeling snooped and in 10 seconds found out what he was up to and he didnt put up much of a fight denying anything. Had a pretty easy ride compared to many on here, exposure was nuclear affair ended on DDay although they worked together for a year after the A and that killed (nothing happened after D Day between them as all the love they had for eachotehr turned into hate once exposure was out she tryed to cover her backside saying she didnt know he was married he covered his by saying she was an easy lay and had slept with many other colleagues, pretty much self distructed themselves). Humiliated the hell out of her by sending a very exposing and degrading email to all her friends on FB.

I am a great beleiver in exposure and by the sounds of what you ahve been writing your WH used to have alot of love for you so i dont think all is lost, just get rid of horrid woman out of his life and you might stand a chance. I dont care that she lost her husband to, many women are widowed and dont do what she is doing.

Just had something that was verging on our first honest conversation in two years, and it was thanks to all of you.

I finally manage to get him to answer his phone and he's all 'whts wrong now' and I just say i miss him and want to say goodnight. Say i am sorry i missed opportunity to have a drink with him this afternoon by his not anwering calls.

hes actually being pretty nice so I feel emboldended to say: "look babe I know something is going on that you feel like you cant talk to me about. I know you. If you cant talk to me, for the love of god talk to someone, because i can see the depression is killing you."

He actually starts to unburden himself. Says he can hear himself snapping at me and he hates it. He says he wants to tell me but i'm 'better off not knowing'. That I really dont want to know, its that bad. I say "At this point I dont care if youve murdered someone. Theres nothing worse than a secret that torments you, and confuses me".

I tell him I am his best friend first and foremost and that I will listen fully and sympathetically to whatever he wil say. I also suggest he might talk to certain trustworthy people, whose opinion I know he respects.
He asks me what time im In work tomorrow and says he cant tell me now because it would distract me from work! WHY DIDNT I LIE We go round in circles a bit. Then I tell him to think it over.

My mum just called asked me how im holding up. I tell her im doing great.

Beware the "I love you but I am not in love with you" speech that will come.

It changes nothing, continue on plan! Wayward fog speak. He doesn't know his rear end from page ten right now.

Ive had a cover verion sang to me three months ago. 'I will always love you, when i go we'll stay friends'
Yeah right. hes here for a reason. Told me when he came home that hes been looking for jobs abroad, that its best he is alone. I told him nothing is achieved alone but that its his life. Has left his phone unguarded for first time. Not sure hes really asleep tho! argghghghghgh.

Indie,

click on notable quotes in the general forum for a list of abbreviations.

POSOW - this is one of my favorites and is short for: piece of shtt other woman.

I like your attitude. Just be careful not to strike back when he gets hostile or tries to pick a fight. Do not give him any reason to justify things in his own mind.

You are the loving and caring wife.

Good luck Indie.

Cheers lovely. KISA isnt listed tho. and I have a feeling its fascinating! I LOVE POSOW. ykwim! Another fave is gaslighting. I should be gassed out by now. Every recolloction I had of things hed said which contradicted another thing he said was scornfully attacked. H said I 'dont listen' I 'dont remember' because I 'dont care'. It was very confusing because I would sit there and think. But i do care, Im sure? Where am I? Am I crazy?

Thats the really hurtful bit. The stuff he came up with on his own.

Indie,

They all do this. They have to justify it in their own mind. Keep it in perspective. You now understand what is going on.

And you will NOT be friends IF he leaves ... but save that for the appropriate time. I am hoping that you will not get there.

Ignore the crazy things he is saying. Stick to your plan.

You are doing great.

This is a great list. It sounds like everyone will be supportive and that will go a LONG WAY.

I will defer to the vets as to what method of exposure you should use. Nuclear exposure is usually recommended - meaning all at once. SHOCK AND AWE But this is hard if you are trying to meet everyone face to face.

Facebook bombing everybody is beginning to sound pretty good. Even people I work with who dont know him, will need to know what the hell is happening with me

Told you i dont like secrets!

Having done the list, I am beginning to feel I can only do important peeps in person. Her parent's h's parent's her mil an fil, i would then gather the family members of mine together who dont know to explain. Perhaps do the rounds of a few friends in the eve.

Having got thinking last night (one hours sleep btw) I think her sister may know of and support the A. For a start she is an OW herself, and shes made some very subtle remarks at my expense in past

Got into a spat with him. Feeling more assertive, which is both good and dangerous. Merely called and asked if he needed to talk later, that id cancel my plans. He went deep into the fog, said that I just couldnt accept we had grown apart, that i didnt listen, yadayadayada. Says he is set on going abroad. No concrete plans though funnily enough.

Told him, I was only offering to help. I said he was talking BS and if he couldnt talk honestly to me he should pick a friend and go from there. When he accused me of being unhappy i agreed and said that my problem was easy to fix - just spend more time wih me.

Seems clear he needs a kick up the jacksie. Sorry for not listening to you all about his insight! WHEN will my recording equip arrive?! Im seeing ow tonight. Planning on telling her some things that will make her jealous, but also that im woried he could be depressed or something to throw them off the scent.

What is a good timescale for plan A and b and exposure?

In my head something like this.

Get irrefutable evidence.
Prepare exposure list and exposure letter
Prepare list of requirements he needs to meet if staying
Confront h.
Make him choose - me or her and agree to non contact, plus a list of other requirements if me.

If he chooses her do I have to stick around doing plan A? How long for? Dont think could last longer than a week. Go into plan B then if no success

If he initially chooses me, i would want to keep up some surveillance, so I wouldnt tell him about all my gadgets and evidence.

Regardless of his choice, I will carry out exposure either day of or day after confrontation.

Put up with abuse from him re the exposure, possibly her.

Keep going. Sound good?

Do you go or stay in the house while doing plan B?

He would have nowhere to go, (family troubles) I would have my mum and dads house and a wealth of support to help me through it. Id be treated like a princess.

Or is letting him stay in an empty house with total freedom a disaster? I could cut off paying bills, though, he cant afford it alone.

Indie just concentrate on one task at a time, right now put your energy into getting evidenvcevand work on exposure. There is little point right now in working on the things he needs to meet in order for you to agree to carry on with marriage, trust me when I say your a looong way off this point.

All sorts of things are going to kick off once the A is out and confirmed, and rarely this involves a WH agreeing to anything that involves giving up the OW. There will be excuses, denials and a lot of manipulation ( just like a drug dependant person coming off the drugs).

You are kind of doing a plan A now, carry on with plan a after exposurebut be careful not to enable the A (more info and advice on this around MB) .

if your WH carries on having contact with the OW it's time to go to plan B. But again you need to do a lot of reading on both these plans so right now concentrate on exposure and snooping only.

The whole idea of plan B is to concentrate on you and cut off a WH. You do not take part in what he does and you don't worry about where he lives etc. You just worry about you that's it, he got himself in this mess with no help from you so he doesn't need any help figuring out his life once you cut him off, and you certainly do not do anything to make his life comfortable, after all he says he wants his own life without you then show him the reality of this.