I joined this forum a few months ago after finding out text and online messages between my WH and his lover. Thanks to the members of this forum who advised that I snoop around more and with God's grace, I discovered more concrete details of my husband's affair that he cannot deny.

After confrontation, my WH made insincere promises to break-up with his lover never managed to do it. After months of being the best wife I could, but not able to tolerate any further lies, I made the choice to move out with my kids.

During this time, we only communicated regarding arrangements for our children. And when he pleaded for me to go back home, I insisted he break off his affair with no strings attached and kept our conversation short and brief ending that I will pray for him to have the courage, but he cannot have both cakes and eat them too.

For 2 weeks, I had the most peaceful days since I discovered his affairs. Preparing myself to face the possibility of divorce, I surrounded myself with people I love, exercised at the park with my children, went for movies with friends and families. I told myself that I had to move on and this was the time to empty my head off worries. I even slept and ate well.

My WH contacted me after that to tell me that having had his own time to do everything he thought he wanted, he realized that he had to make a choice and thereafter broke-off with his lover.

We attending counseling with our church priests and family counselor and will continue with family therapy this week with our children.

However, I am still having the feeling of fear as I do not know if the situation is just being hidden underground until things are more settled. I also have the fear of being cheated again, despite his regular assurance and special arrangements for me to accompany him in his activities.

Maybe it's due to so many months of being constantly lied to.

Can anybody advice me if it is really possible a cheater can change? (my husband has cheated on me twice, to my knowledge).

Can counseling change his behavior? Can a person change to be faithful?

There is no substance abuse in my husband's case and from our counseling sessions, the cause seems to be his family background where his father had been a wayward husband earlier in life. His parents are still together.

If anybody has experience of changes to share, it will be nice to know your story.

God bless.

Angel 19
38
2 kids
Still trying to survive after 4 years.

Bumping for Angel 19

Angel, I had a quick read of your first thread and I see that travelling was involved. Does your H still travel for his job?

From my quick read, I cannot tell how much you know about OW. Does she live near you? Is she married? What evidence do you have that the affair ended? did your H write a no-contact letter? How did they get in contact in the first place? This avenue must be cut off if the affair is not to resume.

You asked for experiences: I am married to a repeat offender and nothing I did ended contact for 8 years. I recently found that, despite the fact that my H's OW lives in another country and they have not met in person for 5 years, contact continued for these 5 years by means of occasional phone calls at his work place. The only reason that contact now seems likely to stop for good is that my H has retired and will never go into his workplace again. That, our enrolling on the MB online course, and a keylogger on my home PC (he has no mobile phone or ipad) are the controls in place in my marriage. It is not encouraging that a serial cheater must be tied up like a dog and watched constantly, but that is the reality.

If you cannot monitor all your H's communications then I have no hope for NC for you, I'm sorry to say. If your H's workplace communication is closed to you, then it is very likely that contact will continue by that means.

Thanks Sugarcane for your analysis on my case. I really appreciate your input on this.

The OW is from another country but is currently living on a temporary work permit in our country. I found out that her work permit is valid till January next year.

The evidence is that he has sent a no-contact letter which has been reviewed by our counselor. The OW tried to initiate contact but my WH realized that it was causing too much disharmony to the family and our children and is resisting contact.

They met through a social internet (now deleted), phone and on the pretense or work travel.

My WH is running his own office and I work there with him. Previously, we have different working hours due to my children's responsibilities. But we now go to work and leave the office at the same time. When he goes outstation or overseas, he brings me along with him or someone reliable in the family (like his brother goes along with him).

We have made this clear and he has agreed to be accompanied on his travels. Currently, he seems comfortable with the arrangements and said he does not mind the travel company. He also goes through with me his whereabouts during the day and account for who he is with and where he goes.

He also allows me to monitor his communication. We have installed a call blocker on his phone. And he is not allowed to delete his recent calls on his iphone. His use of computer and ipad are visible to public as his office room as well as home study is in an open area. We share the ipad with our children.

In short, his office communication is open to me at anytime.

The only way he can repeat his offense is if he sneaks out during lunches and meetings or travel alone. But I will be aware of his work schedule and movements.

The problem with the OW is that she is free to move anywhere and has no family attachments here as she is single and is willing to live as a mistress on his expenses. She is still around in our state. However, we cannot relocate as my WH has his business here to maintain.

The best I can do is to check if she renews her work permit next year which would be bad indication.

Will tying him up like a dog frustrate my WH further? I wonder how long he will allow to be tied.

I am definitely having difficulties dealing with the trust issue at this moment as it is less than a week since he stopped contact with the OW.

How did you cope when you found out that they are still in contact? Will retirement and age bring about some sense and maturity in serial cheaters?

My WH's family members and religious counselors have informed me that he is sincere in changing and everyone is watching his actions closely. But it is so hard for me to believe despite his assurance.

Sugarcane, I am happy that you have managed to work out a control plan with your WH and that you are both still together. However, my fear now is that my WH will expect me to regain trust in him only to repeat the nightmare.

I hope other BW will share with me their success stories. I have come across very few with serial cheaters.

Angel...

Just like an alcoholic...he will remain a "Serial Cheater" indefinitely. He doesn't have the right to request or ever expect you to "regain trust". In situations of serial adultery Dr. Harley basically advocates that IF you choose to recover with such person (which he doesn't necessarily recommend but will advise if his counsel is sought) the wayward spouse basically can't be trusted with members of the opposite sex ever. It's good you two already work together pretty much full time. His work trips are concerning but always being with him and/or having an accountability partner with him may work.

Question is ... can he withstand being "tied up like a dog" indefinitely.

He needs to work a marital recovery program with you so he can see for himself that he's not really giving up anything. Life as a dog is empty for him. A fulfilling marriage and fulfilling family life is the only real thing he's got. A successful recovery is worth far more than empty cheap sex with w hores.

People can change. Your husband can change but after THREE affairs you've really got a lot of work to do on yourself. You've been severely abused by his behavior and like a spouse of an addict you need to work on and get support for your unhealthy mental configuration that allows you to stay in this marriage despite his behavior. You need to work on your boundaries such that if you decide to give him another chance you are able to effectively communicate that THIS IS IT. Your husband seemingly cherishs his family enough to change his ways once you lay down the law....well, you are going to need to be laying down the law for the rest of your life/marriage from now on. You shouldn't ever be asked to "trust him" again.


Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I saw a guy in California was able to use an app on his IPhone to turn on the video camera on his stolen MacBook. He was able to record the guy that stole his Mac Book and post the video. Within hours he had the thief identified and recovered his MacBook. The point of this story? There are ways to monitor your husband. He should consent to you having the ability to "turn on" unannounced and whenever you want the video camera on his laptop as well as a keylogger which constantly emails his keystrokes and screenshots to your secure email address. His VOLUNTARILY allows you to snoop on his with the understanding that you are HELPING him control his problem. It's NOT making him your dog on a leash. Rather...you are his very best accountability partner. Who better than his wife to help him with his severely inappropriate and abusive "falling on top of strange women" problem. [[[sarcasm...but still serious}}}

Dear Mr. Wondering,

Thank you so much for your input. I totally agree with you that he has to realize a fulfilling marriage and family is the only real thing he's got. My WH has betrayed me twice (to my knowledge) but it could have been more that I did not discover. The 2 I found out were rather intense emotional affairs which was difficult for him to end.

I did not exposed the first one, which was a mistake on my part to hide it and we did not attend counseling. However, when the second one happened, I have exposed it and have made extensive efforts to seek marriage counseling.

We have attended counseling to end his affair and will continue in our recovery. Also as a family to rebuild our family values and life. My WH loves his children and understands that his action has affect his children, especially if we have to divorce. Moreover, he is well known in our town and exposure on this has embarrassed him.

However, I'm wondering why he didn't worry about this when he got involved with his affairs.

I believe he has a severe personality disorder that uses his affairs as destructive measures onto himself due to his own insecurities and upbringing in a dysfunctional family (His father is a WH and narcissist).

As for me, yes, I also feel that I have an unhealthy mental configuration that allows me to tolerate his behavior and hoping each time for a change.

In fact, it has been me initiating the efforts to save the marriage, and I left him when I was tired of the lies (not revealing his whereabouts when he sneaked out).

But I am so easily persuaded to get back to mend the relationship for the sake of my children. I'm hoping that if he can change, he may be a better father and husband. He has always been responsible as a bread winner for the family.

Now that he has pledged his change to the priest (a confession that he was not able to do before and never done, and he did it in my presence), and his mother (whom he has been too embarrassed to face but have pledged his words), is my giving him a third chance futile?

My side of the family, on the other hand, is not convinced that he will change and fear for my future.

I am torn and confused now. Did I make a mistake by giving him another chance?

Yes. Honestly, it is probably a mistake. He probably won't learn much else than to be more careful next time. That being said "probably" isn't the same as "always". Some waywards can change. I am intrigued that he saw and confessed to your priest. I suggest you require him to really look into the word "repentance" and what it means to him, to you and to your church. A short definition of repentance actually means "to change". Through God anything is possible.

However, since you've already decided to give your marriage a chance focusing on whether it's a mistake or not is kind of a waste of time. I think, perhaps, undertaking to effectively communicate that this is the FINAL chance and you won't be making the same mistake again is more important.

Further...I am not suggesting just relying on your church/God. Recovery requires a plan. Statements like..."I cheat because my dad was a narcissist that cheated on my mom" isn't good enough. Your husband is an adult and fully responsible for his own choices. It's time for him to grow up and OWN his choices....choices to be a [censored] to his wife and children...the most important people in his life. His life and your marriage need a concrete plan for recovery that is lived daily (much like AA for alcoholics).

What's your plan? is the daily affirmation necessary.


Anyway...going to bed here in the middle of the United States. I'll give a quick link to one of my favorite threads about "boundaries" in a post to follow this one.

Mr. Wondering

Here is link to a discussion regarding the often difficult to define term "boundaries" versus manipulation and control.

BOUNDARIES VS. MANIPULATION/CONTROL - An Open Discussion


Here is a thread started by a former wayward husband about the Marriage Builders concept of Extraordinary Precautions (including extraordinary precautions as a part of the concept of "Just Compensation")


[u]Extraordinary Precautions[/u] by HerPapaBear


Good night,
Mr. W

Thank you Mr. Wondering for the links!

We have set EPs and upgrading it as and when possible.

1)He accounts for all this time ans schedule, who and where he is.
2) His most tempting time to call the OP is on his drive home, so I hold his mobile phone then since we drive separate cars.
3) I am allowed to check his phone at anytime to trace and view recent calls and messages. Call block has been installed. He is not allowed to delete call history.
4) I follow him on all outstation trips. For overseas trip, his brother who is his also his business partner will go along and account for his time.
5) All passwords and email accounts have been made known to me. All PC is in open and visible area.
6) No hanging out at pubs. If needed for occasions, I will for along or he will be with a mutual friend to account for his time there.
7) We must attend counseling and spiritual courses to improve our state of mind and life values. (This has been lacking especially on his part because he grew up in a weak religious environment due to his wayward father).
8) We are to spend more time together (lunch and dinner) and increase time with the children. (He used to spend too much time relaxing after work with his bachelor friends instead of the family. This is now set to breakfast and tea breaks near the office and I am notified of who he is with and where they go).
9) He is to include the children and me in his recreational activities. His hobby is traveling to see new places so we must plan more interesting outings to meet this need.

The main cause of his A was due to frequent outstation travels and too much personal time on his own recreational activities.

So we are targeting these points to create a better bond for him with me and our children. Hopefully, this will reconfigure his way of life and that he will wake up from his fantasy which he has admitted had in time become tiring, burdensome and unnatural.

As I work with him at the same office, it is easy to monitor. But I am aware that a serial cheater is an expert in lying, sneaking, deception, manipulation and distorting the truth (even with facts).

It will be a long hard road for me... I will give it some time to observe him. Since my children are young and he is willing to cooperate, I will invest this time.

But if he ever restarts another A, I have made it clear that I value our marriage as sacred between just the two of us, no other party involved, this is God's plan. If he cannot fulfill that vow to me and our children, it is against my moral and religious values, and therefore he can spare everyone the immense hurt and mental torture by packing up and living his dysfunctional life on his own. And he can answer to God or wherever his soul ends up after his death.

Frankly speaking, I don't think he really believes in the religious mumbo-jumbo due to his weak spiritual grounds. But I have accepted that that would be his own responsibility and loss if he does not repent.

Thank you very much for your time to my thread. Please inform me of anything else I have to know or any EP that I have to consider.

Dear GloveOil,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, that was my mistake when I first discovered the first A. I only exposed it to a few members in his family. At that time, we also failed to set EPs and failed to spend enough time together and as a family. The OP1 was in another country so contact was difficult.

When A2 happened, OP2 from another country came over to work in our country making the temptation more. I had rebuilt my trust and was unaware of it for 2 years.

When I discovered it 8 months ago, I exposed it to his family, my children and my family.

We have been to individual and couple counseling for 8 months now and he is clear of what I mean. I also executed plan B for 2 weeks in order for him to send NC message to OP. Thereafter, we set EPs and he has seeked forgiveness from me in front of our priest, and also forgiveness from our children during our family therapy.

However, his self control has yet to be proven.

Did I miss out anything else? This will be a long and hard journey. Am i on recovery, false recovery or still surviving?


DD of A1 - October 2007
DD of A2 - October 2010
NC - Just last week

Me - 38
WH - 39
2 kids 11 and 9 years

Thank you GloveOil, I thought I submitted a reply to your post but I don't see it here. Firstly, thank you for sharing and congratulations on making your marriage better than before. You are a golden example to marriages that survive and I really respect your self-control and love for your spouse.

You are are right that He must understand that I mean it. Which was why I executed plan B when he refused to send NC letter to OP2.

During Plan B, I prepared myself for divorce and my family was giving me support to leave him. But he pleaded me to take him back. I told him that there will be no discussion until he send NC. Together with our counselors, he sent the NC and willingly agreed to EP. He then made confession to our priest in my presence, and even asked forgiveness from me and our children during our family therapy. He will be following up with individual counseling.

So this time around, there is exposure, counseling and EP.

Unfortunately, I am unable to report the OP as she does not have family members here. I am unable to locate her as she has moved and changed jobs (maybe even not working), but she is still around the state.

We are currently implementing EP. It has only been a week so it's still too early to tell if it is just another false recovery and there is still a possibility for it being underground.

If he is a narcissist like his father, it could be just another bigger lie to cover an even smarter underground plan.

Anyway, if after all the EP, and if this is just another false recovery, things cannot be hidden for long and I will eventually find out, after which I am prepared to leave him for good. He knows this.

Is there anything else I should watch out for?

Can anyone who has WH with 2As survived and recovered?

Still wondering what my chance of recovery will be.

Thanks, once again.

Such an interesting choice of words.

Your chance of "survival" ~~~> 100%.
The chance of your M survival? Unknown at this point.

Your chances of personal recovery? 100% up to you.

The chance for your M recovery is low, without 100% from your H.
I advise you & H work the MB Online Program. Together.
Or, call for phone coaching.

You will survive.
You will recover.

As far as a multiple A recovery example goes. I think MB poster Schoolbus might be a place to begin reading.

Agree with Pep.

The illusive search for "the odds" or "the percentages" is a black hole. Only your husband can tell you the odds and keep telling you daily (or weekly at least) for the rest of your lives/marriage.

He has a behavior problem that HE needs to address and take responsibility for. This is NOT your problem. You can help him with HIS problem and be his accountability partner but, inevitably, without persistent and pervasive extraordinary precautions that he implements and shores up constantly forever with a willing and appreciative heart...it will happen again.

HE has to want to break this cycle so one day his children aren't caught cheating on their spouses and defending themselves saying "well...my dad was a cheating narcissist"

Mr. W