Tonight, 2 weeks after learning of my WH's most recent affair, my youngest son broke down in tears and told me that he had caught his father kissing another woman in our kitchen more than 10 years ago and that he had blackmailed his father with the info as a teenager.

My son (who is now 26) is full of shame and guilt that he did not tell me at the time. I have told him that I do not blame him, that he is a victim of his father's deceit, just as I am. Knowledge of this affair has left me reeling, because I cannot believe that my husband would subject his son to such pain. Of my 3 children, this son alone has alcohol and other AODA issues, and I imagine that witnessing his father's infidelity is a contributing factor.

Until tonight I was working on a plan A. Despite his serial infidelities,I love my husband, I feel that I don't know who he is anymore and I don't know if there is anything to salvage. I feel hollowed out.

Despite his serial infidelities, I love my husband; however, I despair that recovery is impossible.

WH is out of town for a week. I have called my other 2 children and asked if they would come up for a family conference next weekend when WH returns. Should I even bother? I think it will be even more hurtful to my children if he lies to their faces, and I'm not sure I should subject them or me to any more pain. It feels as though WH has no respect for us as human beings, let alone as his loving wife and children.

You have to expose it to your children. They are old enough to understand. Your WH needs to know and hear from them how hurt they are. He cannot live with the thrill of knowing that the secret will be kept and he has nothing to be ashamed off.

Don't hide his evil secret any longer. I'm sure your other children have a hint about it by now. Children know what's happening somehow. Does your husband have narcissistic tendencies? If so make sure you confront him as a group. He will manipulate and twist his way out if approached one-on-one. Like what he has done to you and your son.

I know you love him, but hiding his bad habits and letting him bully this way is not the example you will want to set for your daughters. Agree with your children to coax him into counseling.


The best gift of love you can give him is to lead him to a change. Whether it works or not, you never know until you have tried your best and please stick to the counseling program for as long as possible. Intensive counseling is needed because it may be a deep-seeded problem.

Your son will need counseling to reprogram his values and beliefs. Preferably counseling from religious views but professional counseling helps to.

All the best and will pray for your courage.

Me: BW, 38
Him: Wh 39 (whom I love so much )
DD#1 4 yrs ago
DD#2 9 months ago
Still trying to survive. Prepared to divorce if WH doesn't change.

Children 2: 11 and 9 years. Exposed and into family counseling to reprogram family values.

WH comes from a family culture of WH (his father, uncle, grandfather). WH currently undergoing religious counseling started since DD.

Angel,

Two weeks ago, I told my 3 kids (DD30,DS28,DS26)that their father had a "friendship" (WH's story at the time)that he had kept secret from me for 5 months. WH only confessed a week ago that it had, in fact, been a PA.

Last night I called DS28 and asked him to come up for a family conference next Sunday. I have called DD30, but she hasn't returned my call yet. I'm pretty sure all 3 will come. I am going to visit them tomorrow for a few days and will tell them everything.

I will talk more with my DS26 today and encourage him to seek counseling. He has carried this secret burden for a long time.

Although I have loved WH for nearly 40 years, suddenly I feel like I have never known who he really is. I will encourage WH to seek individual counseling (I've already scheduled my first session). WH and I have had 2 sessions with an MFT since the May 12 D-Day.

I've read the online SAA material and have ordered the Harley book and HN/HN, but at the moment it seems laughable that I could ever "affair proof" my marriage.

Numb, I am so sorry you are here. I know first hand some of what you are feeling. I personally have had my ups and downs and still do. But I wish I could take your pain right now and place it on my shuolders so that you would not have to feel it.
Please know that the veterans here will help to guide you. Please know that no matter what, there is always hope. Please know that you do not deserve this. And believe me... one day it won't hurt quite so much. This is not about you and has nothing to do with you. I write to you as someone who convinced himself that it was MY FAULT and finally.... two years later I am realizing that it was never my fault.
This stranger will never meet you. I will probably never post to you again. But this stranger is praying for you and your children and your wayward husband today.
Just know that.
Blessings,

Hurting Turkey,
Me BS 56
She WW 50
Hers 18, 22
Mine 22, 28, 30
Ours DS 11
D-Day 1 - April 26 2009
D-Dapy 2 - October 15 2009
Exposed February 22, 2010
Me: Reforming Verbal Abuser
She: still won't divulge OM # 2 despite overwhelming evidence

freefall, I am so sorry you are here. But your marriage is very salvagable as hard as that may seem right now. You can save your marriage if your H makes a dramatic change in his lifestyle by changing the environment that led to the affair. Many others here have [or are] recovering from serial cheating. You have nothing to lose by setting the bar very high for your husband. I predict that your H would change if you made it condition of his staying in the marriage. Otherwise, I would strongly advise that you separate and go to Plan B. The reason being is that his behavior is extremely abusive. Adultery is the worst thing that can happen to someone and most women suffer emotional and physical damage from living like this.

I too, was raised by a serial cheater father and it was extremely confusing to me as a child. I grew up very morally confused because what seemed wrong to me was RIGHT to adults. I learned to doubt my instincts about right and wrong.

But please do not think for a minute that you can't recover your marriage. YOU CAN. You just have to set the standards for your H and make it clear to him what those standards will be.

I would most certainly require that he pass a polygraph and end all overnight travel. You should never be apart overnight again. Once this marriage is affair proofed, I would begin work on creating a romantic relationship. That is how you turn this around.

Two days before you schedule the polygraph, hand him a list of all of your questions and give him one last chance to come clean BEFORE the polygraph. But make it a condition that he pass the test.

here

Explain to him that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to settle for less and won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about his affairs � passing a polygraph

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, and you will be better off without him.

Also, is the OW married? If so, I would quietly, with no forewarning, tell her husband.

OW in present affair is married. OWH knows and has filed for divorce. She has 4 kids, ages 4-18. 18 yr old has had to play mom while OW has been meeting my WH.

Have you personally spoken to the OWH?

Melody,

Yes, I have spoken with OWH. WH has spoken with him, too. I've also spoken with OW. OWH has filed for divorce. OW is still living with OWH, but plans to move out. According to OWH, she plans to move to our town to be closer to WH. Two weeks ago, WH says he told OW that he would not see her anymore. OWH says that OW told him that she would not reconcile with OWH because she intends to be with my WH.

I believe the PA has stopped, but OW phoned our home last week while we were at counseling, and called WH at work following day. WH says he told her once again that he would not see her. WH says he is still emotionally attached to OW but is trying to disconnect with OW and reconnect with me.

Given my son's revelation of an earlier affair, I'm unsure WH is telling the truth.

He's not. Your H is still in touch with her. He told you that when he told you she called him at work. Your H took her call and spoke to her.

I would suggest you have the talk with him I outlined above and if he can't pass the polygraph and PROVE to you that his affair is over [its not over now] I would make plans to separate.

I would also look into getting a restraining order preventing that filthy ho from calling your home. That is outrageous that she has the NERVE to call your home. YOUR HOME. That is an egregious act of disrespect.

WH will be home on Saturday. I am visiting my two older children for a couple of days. SAA and HN/HN arrived just before I left and I have read both.

I think a polygraph would be pointless, as I am sure WH is still holding secrets. Besides, I have no clue where to have one done and it is doubtful that WH would submit to one.

I want to make another appeal to him for honesty and to end all contact with the current OW.

I have written WH a letter, saying that I love him and apologizing for failing to meet his ENs. I wrote that I want to work on creating a passionate and loving marriage with him, but that he must end all contact with OW before we can begin to heal and work on our marriage. I listed the strengths of our marriage that we can build upon and ended by saying that I love him and want to create a marriage that will fulfill his needs and mine.
I plan to give it to him upon his return.

All 3 kids are coming up this weekend on Father's Day. I had suggested a family conference, but the 2 older kids are uncomfortable with a group discussion, fearing that dad will find it too confrontational and be less, rather than more open and honest. They prefer to talk to their father individually. I think the secret of WH's earlier affair is one that affects the entire family, especially my youngest son who has born the burden of the secret for a decade. He has expressed a desire for support from his brother and sister.

I don't want WH to feel like we are ganging up on him, but I also feel like he needs to acknowledge his responsibility to the whole family. Suggestions?

I think its nice that your kids are willing to speak to him, but it is going to take much more than this to get him to quit his job and get out of there. That is the only hope for your marriage.

And thoughtful requests are not going to get him to end his affair. Especially someone who is on their second affair. This kind of behavior is very entrenched in your H and it will take much, much more than this to get him to change.

How will you get him to leave the job, freefall?

Talk to your kids and establish a goal: do they want their parents together or apart? Confronting your WH as a group will leave him with no ability to manipulate the person he would be talking to alone.

So, when everything's good the family is a loving unit, and when there's a problem you're 'ganging up on him'? Don't you realize this affects your whole family?? Absolutely, they should be involved!

i just came back to my husband after separating for 4 months, i havent even been back 6 months yet and i have already found him asking a girl what she was wearing and for a pic. he talks to her like i beg him to talk to me. he used to be so loving and thoughtful and now he is verbally abusive and a master manipulator. i am reading love busters right now and since i caught him talking to her he has offered to read it with me, but i cant get past wondering why he so willing gives her what i so desperately yearn for. why doesnt he care how he is hurting me? if he keeps doing this i cant see myself staying there being treated this way. he knows that and we have talked about it, but i dont know how to let go and try to trust him. i feel like he will just keep on and that i am niave for staying this time. i just want my family together and i love him so much but his actions dont show that it is mutual at all. any advice? can someone please tell me he can change and that he does love me like he says he does?

Melody,

WH has been in this job for 30 years. His employer would never fire him, and it's going to take extraordinary persuasion to get him to leave. I honestly believe it will require plan B before I see any movement. "Entrenched" is WH's middle name.

I have been hoping that OW will leave, but I saw that she updated her FB status to show that she has now moved to our town. Doesn't look like she's planning on going anywhere.

Discussion this weekend seems critical to me. I may be placing too much hope on it, but I want to play it out. I'm hoping that WH will come home with a clear head and be ready to do what is necessary to give our marriage a chance.

If not, then I need to prepare for plan B. That, too, will be difficult. I would gladly move to another city, but I do not want to leave my home. It is the only home we have ever owned; our children grew up there; and I can't bear the idea of the OW living in it. WH would move out, but he might move in with OW. I don't think it will help if she begins fulfilling more of his needs.

Please, no 2X4s. Constructive suggestions, please, but use your inner monologue for sarcastic and/or painful remarks.

If it's a choice between his marriage and his career, I don't see the issue. What extraordinary persuasion would be needed?

<snip>


Plan Hope will not help you. You need to be pro-active to kill this A. You can't sit back and hope it works itself out in favor of your marriage.

Why would you even consider uprooting your innocent family from their home? Your wayward needs to get out of the house if he continues this A. HE'S the one doing the wrong thing.

Don't allow your fear of the unknown to paralyze you in killing this A. You don't know what your WH is going to do, and yet you're adjusting your plan accordingly.

I don't understand this comment. Do you feel we are being mean to you or something?

Believe me, this week of waiting for WH to return has been very difficult. I am neither stupid nor passive. I KNOW this thing is not going to just work itself out. I have spent nearly every waking moment thinking and planning and taking care of whatever action I can while WH is gone.

I've written WH a letter expressing my love for him and desire to create a marriage that fulfills both our needs. I am clear that he has to end contact with OW and he needs to start being honest. I've bought and read SAA and HN/HN and will offer them to WH.

Saturday WH will return home to a warm and romantic welcome. I will listen to him recount his trip and snuggle up with him. The next day our kids will be there to enjoy a Father's Day dinner and afterwards have a family conference. This is the best plan I can think of to convey to him that he needs to act.

I believe we have a better chance of making it to recovery if we both stay in the home. Plan B seems inherently more risky to me, but I have the strength and resources to do it, if necessary.

The 2X4 comment was a result of reading other threads where replies seemed unduly harsh and critical. I am emotionally vulnerable right now, as I'm sure you will appreciate, but I am not sitting back, wringing my hands, expecting the problem to solve itself..

When a person is emotionally vulnerable, it is especially critical they are able to determine the facts of the situation.
Feelings and emotional responses are not facts.
However, the emotionally vulnerable person often THINKS that their emotional responses are facts.


When dealing with adultery, the facts must be addressed. Emotions be damned.

Sometimes, a BS will be 2X4'd when they only deal with their emotional roller coaster. This is how people dive into a nervous breakdown!
When they ignore facts.
When they flail around and are too afraid to make a fact-based decision.

May I suggest something?

When you post about your situation, try dividing the post into segments.
This is so you make it clear to yourself what you are posting about.

Facts:
List the known facts.

The unknown:
Stuff that may or may not be factual.
You just need more data to be certain.

Emotions:
Your feelings.
Your emotional responses.
Your physical responses.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Now, "harsh" is in the eye of the beholder, just like beauty. Harsh or stern or whatever .... sometimes a drill sergeant is very harsh. It makes a soldier tough and battle ready.

"Critical" can have several meanings.

* a detailed analysis of the merits or faults of a situation
* disapproving comments
* someone who is so ill they are at risk of death
* something having a decisive or critical importance in the success or failure of something (like a MB based plan)

I wrote this .....



..... with carefully selected words.

Can you guess why?

Hang in there.
Recovery from adultery takes TOUGHNESS.