Indiegirl,

The reason I asked about where he thinks he will work abroad is because I am a pretty senior executive (VP level)in a VERY large oil and gas company (think brand name, 7 sisters). We do business in some way, shape or form in most countries in the world. I am also the fiancee of a man who works in the industry in many countries (he is a Brit, btw). As a result, I am VERY familiar with the immigration requirements for many countries. I was going to try and give you a take on how likely it is he could immigrate - on either a temporary or permanent basis....it is NOT as easy as it sounds. Also, unless you are going to work in Western Europe or the US, it isn't as easy or as glamorous as it sounds. My fiance has worked off shore in Nigeria, the Ivory Coast, etc. It's a very dangerous, boring, basic existence without the luxuries many of us have taken for granted. It's also hard, hard work....and he's a senior engineer!

Right I know what you're saying but immigration wouldn't apply. The country though geographically abroad is british soil and hes very fmiliar with the place due to many business trips.

He wouldnt like it very much though.

My instinct also whispers 'lie' as to his interview - he hasnt had long enough to sort one.

Dear Indiegirl,

from the practical side, have you secured the evidence of his savings and earnings in the last 10 years? Because if he did not keep up his side of the bill and you can prove that, you may be able to do something with it if it should come to a divorce. e.g. when you have copies of his bank papers and who paid what for the house, he may owe you.

Also, take the computer to your sister, or another secure place, and have someone look into it. Most of the time you will be able to get past passwords. Maybe you know someone who is good with computers, or search the internet. Who knows what else he is hiding.

God bless, happyheart.

My sister and I are going to do that. Have asked her to ask him for admin password.

Me and cousins girlfirend watched and listend from across the street as he got his stuff.

He came with a friend, took a few calls from people who appeared to be quizzing him about stuff.

When his mate left with some bags we heard him crying

On the phone he sid to someone 'packing up my stuff' 'no i dont want to - but what choice do i have?'

he also said to someone that 'people know i know her, that I see her, i wouldnt be able to...' (then something i couldn't hear, but then he said hotel! in a scornful tone of voice.)

he came bck in unexpectedly when i went back into house, gave me a hard time about taking the computer, stood my ground, he took his cv etc off while i watched, i then let him go, he seemed q upset.

Thinking of plan b.

VERY LONG POST

Want opinion from you all please on the Plan B letter to h.


DH

I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW possible. I foolishly left you to grieve with her without understanding it was my responsibility. I was not there for you when you needed me the most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I�ve made in the past. I have left you alone to pursue my own interests and friends. When you did the same I criticised you, instead of identifying it as my mistake too.

I want to create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs and mine. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW once and for all.
Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. X has agreed to act as an intermediary for any communication you may need to get to me. I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW. I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with her. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from her and are willing to follow certain measures to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

While I live in the house alone, I will cover all bills. This I insist on.


Nevertheless I hope for us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing her.

With my love,

Indie






*EDIT


H,



I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW possible. I foolishly left you to grieve with her without understanding it was my responsibility. I was not there for you when you needed me the most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I�ve made in the past. I have left you alone to pursue my own interests and friends. When you did the same I criticised you, instead of identifying it as my mistake too.

I want to create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs and mine. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friend ? has agreed to act as an intermediary for any communication you may need to get to me. I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW. I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with her. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from her and are willing to follow certain measures to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing her.

With my love,

Indie

Should I have refused his offer to still pay bills? What do I do regarding that?

Do I put in the other conditions?

I still havent exposed to OW parents as they arent on FB and havent been able to print a copy of letter, must do that today.

My cousins girl, who he seen with me has had a text sounds like i havent done enough plan a, wduthink?

Hi X, Just a quick one to say ta, for asking if i was ok. Some of my own family havent even had decency to do that. Nor even ask if anything is true. ironically i havent really had anyone give me down the banks, only ask 'am i'. Those who have i tell my sie, which is, i am not. I then get told to fight my corner. but i wont as it would mean i want to try to save something, sadly i dont. I do have an issue wth other people gettng pulled in i.e. OW n DF n that kids could caught in crossfire, which i dont want. its our issue, noone elses, anyway i got the reports i needed and was in an d out amicabally, hope your well anyway. in answer to how i am its a number of feelings but i wont take any more of your time, take care.

Indie just quickly note your full name and email address is in one of the posts if you want to remain anonymous you can edit Tyne post and take that info out

Don't second guess what you did in Plan A because of something he said to someone else. He is going to continue to try to put a spin on it. In some perverse way, he doesn't want to admit it, and he doesn't want you to fond out. It would ruin the fantasy. Waywards are weirdos.

I am not an expert on the Plan B letter writing, so I will let some others chime in on that. Just letting you know that we are here, supporting you, even if at some times it is silently, as we have nothing to add, but our support.

How would you say that your LB is holding up today? That's the main thing to be saving as you are considering going into Plan B.

Thanks its been removed. Wars are lost on such details!!

Love bank doing pretty well after going through old momentos. Seeing him shook up and watching him spin a bit is also boosting me.

My dad wants me to wait two weeks before doing plan b letter?

What is req of an intermediary? People dont want to say too much with him, because angry on my behalf.

At what point do I spell out all the conditions?

Have been trying this w/out much success, hoping to get his internet password from providers or ask him for admin password. I would insist on seeing his financial stuff as a condition of plan b letter

Why does your dad advise you to wait before the plan B letter?

An intermediary is someone who is for your marriage there is some information on MB about the requirements I can't find a link but I'm sure the vets can help with that.

As far as to when to reveal the conditions to him well that is best done once he agrees to the NC with OW and asks you about what conditions you want met as you already give him a hint that there are conditions that he will need to need in order to get a chance at making the marriage work in your plan b letter.

I am just scared of you downloading a whole list of demands (even though they are fair demands) on him when he is already a hard character to pin down. The state of mind he is now is to flee and bury his head in the sand a list of demands without a plan A only risks pushing his head deeper in the sand.

To calm down a bit, ensure its what i want - i think he also wants him to suffer, which isnt the purpose i know.

When is the right time to do the letter? is there a timescale to follow?

Agree. Thinking of saying 'I want complete honesty and NC' then demans later

or should i just sy nc? And when? Do i take indications from his behaviour or what?

Indie,

There are businesses out there who can pull everything off the hard drive off a computer....including passwords. If you take your computer to them and tell them you just want the admin password, they may be able to do that fairly quickly. If they can't do "just" that, the will be able to pull everything off. My XH is a Systems Engineer who grew up in the UK (didn't immigrate here until his mid-30's) and learned his trade there (also ran back there for several years, recently, to be with the OW who contributed to the downfall of our marriage). He confirmed that, yes, you should be able to find one of these businesses fairly easily....

Very interesting. where do you look, what are these businesses called?

Hey indie, Plan B in my opinion does make him suffer, he cannot contact you, he's cut off but at least he has a clue as to what you want from him. Right now I bet he does not have a clue where he stands, he is saying things like he is moving abroad in the hope of you reching out to him ( and a bit manipulative as well). Giving him the plan b letter just let's him know in plain straightforward terms what he has to do if he wants the marriage to work.

First he has to have no contact with OW and send her a NC letter.

Then if he agrees to that you can negotiate the terms of your new agreement. The most important thing right now is kicking this POSOW out of his life. When she is out he will be in a more cooperative state to negotiate your needs in your marriage. By the way he has treated his brother it's very unlikely that he's going to admit to being wrong and that he is having an A.

You will need to show him what a great marriage yours can be (plan a) before he will feel comfortable enough to reveal his shortcomings.

I know it can seam unfair that u got to do all the work when he's the one in the wrong. I cant tell you how much I resented having to be nice to my WH and be all lovey dovey after the A when all I wanted to do was run him over with a double decker bus, but your the only one who is sober right now so unfortunately it has to start with you. He's high on A drug and is in deep wayward la la land.

Ill do whatever it takes to get the healthiest outcome. Never realised how tough I was before this.

So, if im understanding right, Letter can be done soon, say a few days? Or straight away?

The letter draft I posted earlier is ok?

If he agrees to an NC letter, negotiate the other cnditions

Plan A him....... ?

hey indie, you definitley are strong just a bit sideswiped at the moment, im sure that as much as you were aware that they might be having an A its still shocking when you get the evidence in black and white.

ok so here is my suggestion, name your sis as intermediary as she has kind of been doing that right now.

your plan B letter as far as I can see is ok but im really not a good source of advice on this, call out to vets to see if any can take a look. remember to include the details of your IM in the letter and tell your sis that you dont want to know about any Bull basically she needs to do the job of a filter, get only the relevant information she needs to get accross. for example if he emails her calling you names etc she does not pass that info onto you (your plan is to protect your marriage from further wayward babble).

If and when he agrees to NC (and NC letter) try to give him an overview of what you would like from him in order for him to come home and you to start rebuilding your marriage (dont overwhealm him with demands as the pure fact that he agreed to NC is an admission of guilt and is one battle won already)allow him back home and monitor like mad.

I do think he cares about you and wants to be with you just has many issues to overcome before he can see the light.