I have my inlaws in town for a few days and I always thought the negativity/unhappiness stems from their upbringing of my wife. I just had a nice conversation with my mother in law about unhappiness and she, in a rare moment of openness, took responsibility on some level. She conceded spending a lot of her years jealous of others' ability to travel and have the things she couldnt. And possibly this rubbed off on her daughter.

However, she said and now I agree with her it has to do more with my wife's inability to open up about her feelings. This is something Ive noticed for our entire relationship.

We have something to focus on with her therapist now which is only about moving forward. Simply put, if my FWW had made any mention of her feelings at any point, the A could have been avoided or at the very least nipped in the bud.

And my FWW knows this is an issue. I will make it clear to her, her psychologist, and her mother that I cannot spend another 15 years guessing my FWW thoughts or making assumptions of happiness only to be humiliated by her again. Will not happen.

My cousin said something the other day and it really never dawned on me as Ive done most of what Ive done since dday to protect my kids and their happiness and that is: I DESERVE TO BE HAPPY TOO. And she knows nothing of the A. She simply asked my wife a question and inferred some strife from the lame answer my FWW gave her.

Anyway, I will work hard to get my FWW to see things in a brighter light because the opposite will not work for me.

Unfortunately, this personality trait is from birth. Going to take a lot of therapy to help her overcome an innate need to be unhappy and jealous of what you dont have. I have told her on many occasions about how sad it must be to have such negative thoughts all the time. I have told her all the time of some of the issues I have in our marriage and looking back, she has said very little. And I talking about things that were issue pre-A.

I want to polish off the pearl and I think she very much wants to be renewed with a new attitude. Its only because I love her that Im giving her this chance to make our life together better. I wont let myself or more importantly our kids be hurt by her inability to emote.

What you are describing Mike is a very common malady in relatioships. All do not end up in affairs but they remain unhappy until they solve it

It was like that with me but WW for years was not happy or honest and did have numerous Houdini incidents

By all means attack this problem full on with therapy and yes. You do work on being happy right? That was your plan and she needs to get full on board with it also

It sucks when you allways feel you aren't doing enough and never get honest answers. She is responsible for being honest with herself. This is now a habit she can fix if she tries

MSS, it would be fair to say that most of us here have supported you with compassion and understanding through this entire, troubling period in your life. We do so because we all, in some manner, have experienced what you have. However, we do so on this site, as opposed to others, because we choose to believe, and act on our belief, that the concept of a strong and flourishing marriage of two people starts with the vows at the ceremony, and continues forever. Remember? "For richer and for poorer, in sickness and in health"?

Your recent insight into what seems to be a moderately severe emotional/psychological "fault" in your wife's makeup is a positive thing, as it gives the pair of you something to attack. Your subsequent hints that (paraphrasing), "If this doesn't get fixed, I'm outta here!" flies in the face of why WE are here. I urge you to moderate your expression in that matter, as otherwise there will likely NOT be the support evidenced in the future that has been offered in the past.

In addition to which, I personally will follow the electron path from my computer to yours, and deliver the following: I hope you know that this message was sent in friendship and brotherhood.

NG-Got your point. What I did was I evolved the conversation from my anger about her sleeping with another guy to a self reflection of how mad I am not making her more open to me with her feelings. So, as Ive told you all, the A and aspects thereof no longer rank high in my anger (thank you very much ADs), its my avoidance of my wife's emotional disconnect that is really bugging me. I understood before the A and before the marriage in fact she wasnt exactly an emotional open book. But, in light of the past several years where she decided to carry out an A in full view of me and our kids, I darn well deserve to start hearing her true thoughts and feelings.

Ive used the past 7 or 8 weeks to get her to start to open up with moderate success, at least in my opinion. The stuff I wanted to hear at first was embarassing to her as it pertained to the dirty details. But, as I learned about this stuff my interest migrated to feelings and thoughts about OM and the A. She spent an inordinate about of time with him not have something she could share with me. Am I wrong to want this?

Now, today, as Im truly moving through the process possibly too fast I working on figuring out what makes my FWW happy, if anything. This could be an offshoot of what I said above about her inability to speak about her emotions. And, Im simply relaying if I cannot get truth about her happiness than I feel (and I have told her because I, unlike her, do speak my feelings and you all know that I write them too) Im setting myself up for failure and I will not let that happen to me or my kids.

I've said many times, my choice to stay here with her and help her get the help she needs, but without learning what makes her tick and to my fault after 15 years I should know more than i do, Im learning nothing from being the fool who was duped by her A in the first place.

Mike,

It will be hard work. You guys are working at fixing things she has practiced her whole life. Patterns, thoughts ideas... A whole worldview, and probably not a consistent one at that...

Me and the Mrs. dealt with the same thing. SchoolBus suggested the book leadership and Self Deception. It's a good book. It will help her identify that point in her life where she began lying to herself. That's what happens with an outlook like that. They lie to themselves and say well, it may have been nice at the time, but it must have been a fluke, or it wasn't as nice as I remembered it... Or he loves me, but must just be blinded by love to see me as someone worth something. Lies the person tells themself because it is (in a sense) a safe place for them. Boundaries will keep her safe. Identifying the problem and changing the behavior will prevent those boundaries from slipping.

Cv

possibly too fast.Rule of time means so many things.
Your right to want to see her efforts but as a BH I also forget it takes "time". Im sorta impatient.
Emotional needs have a huge learning curve so does new behavior so it needs "time"
Mike you may come down to never getting what you need from her and then you have to make a decision. It can be done with both parties. Your expecting overnight success and I wish it upon you. But in reality its going to take allot of time and work. Your as much as a year away from comfortable.
During this time you can do the self improvements that you should have been doing for 15 years of time. My FWW last EA is not that old either. By god draw some lines in the sand (boundaries) and set some goals with time limits.
I dont think me or my FWW are truly happy at the moment but I dont hesitate to discuss with her my feelings either. Men are more problem solving as women are more emotion solving. Read how to be irresistible to your W in HNHN or MB appendix. Make a copy and look at it daily. Then be that. Make her a copy of Irresistible wife. Discuss it with her when you give it to her.
Has she read SAA yet or are you too reading it together?

You know M why don't you guys make checklists and keep journals?
You each make your own lists of the things you want
Then youmake a goal list together

This might help in seeing progress and helping you with patience
You are going to go through stuff for awhile yet
She is going to realize things also for awhile yet

Is it possible to counsel with Dr H or the center?
Time and a plan you both get behindery will heal this but you will both have to have milestones sometimes to look back on

Hence the lists and journals. On top of the EN lists and UA time

You can do this mike and guide her out of the woods also but it seems you will need a very specific plan once you identify it and you might need. the right kind of counsel to set up that plan

It's over my head but I know it can be done. Where there's a will
Theres a way

This where you become the lead man and make a whole new world for you both. From what I can tell she is easily swayed and has bad thought habits, and now you can step in and build what you both want, with you in the lead, gently but firmly.

The book CV suggested sounds like just the ticket too. I think I remember you saying that work had somewhat consumed you before. You can change all of this, she is willing to learn, study with her and tell her when you will do it. I have a feeling she will respond.

It will still take time for the mental movies to go away, and for her to find the right anti D for her. Coming off those can be strange for people, so you will have to let any medication level out.

Do you guys work out? Run? Do cardio? Excersize is very healthy for your brain also because it releases nessesary chemicals that work as anti depressants.

Your in charge now, the past is gone. Feelings follow action, now that those actions that drew you apart and ripped you off all those years are finished, it time for a new life. Lead her into it.

Journals and milestones... Two most important things in healing... You can look back at the journals and see your progress... It may take weeks, months or a few years, but with hard work you can look back and see where you were and where you are headed. Not only do they help in that regard, it helps you see if you are on track with your plan.

Milestones are certainly important. Specially at this stage. Set your own goals for healing. be realistic... Like, say... "I am going to work this week at not focusing on the mental movies". Do this for a few weeks (say, a month) and see if you've reached a little milestone there.

Now the important one for the marriage is setting them together... Set milestones with your W. Work towards a goal...

For instance.. Her mom had a lucid moment and admitted to being a complainer and dissatisfied with things like travelling. Use it. Talk about how that affected your W's thinking and ways you can change that thinking... Work on it for X amount of time. Be prepared to talk and work hard at it initially with her. You may have to carry the load the first month or three. Helping her refocus her attitude until it becomes more natural. Then work at her taking responsibility for it a bit more at a time. Remember when you learned to drive? You didn't just jump in the car and become a good driver. Someone was with you, directing and guiding you... maybe sometimes grabbing the wheel as you were coasting off the road.Be her driving instructor. Gradually you became a good driver. She will learn to drive her own mind in a healthy safe way as well.

CV

Im doing all I can to keep myself even keeled throughout this whole thing. Ive tried to stay honest to my feelings and not sugar coat anything with falsehoods. As my peer group advisors, it makes no sense to omit stuff.

Well, one thing I neglected to tell you all about was money owed to my FWW by OM. This was 401K money she had that we gave him to invest as is his business. This money did very well for many years for us up until the downturn in economy a few years ago. However, he told both me and FWW that he will personally guarantee this money. So when the investment went bye-bye a few years ago, we always believed our principal will be there. Right after dday, my FWW had no doubt she would get this money despite no longer providing services and during my many AOs and vicious attacks I called them "horizontal promises" that no longer apply. (Man, I was able to pretty mean to her.)

We're talking about thousands of dollars. To cut to the chase, we asked my FWW's brother to interact with OM to make sure that money gets to us. OM is getting the first check to us next week. And, we will have a payment plan in place in Sept.

We do have descrepancy as to the exact amount owed and if OM thinks his number is going to be accepted by us, then I will make my first visit to him. Until then my bro in law will pick up checks and set up the repayment plan. When we reach the point where he feels he's paid in full and we dont, I cannot accept this. I cant bore you with the full details on the descrepancy, but I will not allow him to (bleep) my wife again by shorting us by $14K.

Anyway, my FWW is not involved in the conversation at all. We have had a couple good days and I attribute it to last number of posts from the group. Ive read them to her and she does see some of the personality issues I am speaking of. And more, she is very scared that some of her ways are being exhibited by our little girl.

I told her that she and I will be work slowly, carefully, tenderly, and with focus on improving both of us in these areas.

Well I would consider the money lost. What a sleaze this guy is, yeah I hope your wife sees it too, Im trusting she does.

If you are adament about getting the money, have it sent to you, and in no way is she to know about the payments. Your wife does not get to know how much of an "honorable" man he is by paying back the money, and OM doesnt get his,"Im not so bad after all" fix either.

Sounds like a set-up to me, another way for him to stay connected to someone he screwed, and screwed over. This guy should be like he never existed or was taken back to his home planet to you guys. I understand getting back the money might be important but it would be a painful remender to me of what this guy did everytime I got a check.

See if you can have the check sent to a trusted friend to be deposited so it wont come to your home addy, that way on a bad day it wont be a thorn in your side, and will never be seen by your wife.

But if you never see another dime, you have your family, $14K is a small price in my book.

Ah I missed this..good move

Fighting some demons in my head for 2 days. Trying to stay cool around kids and fww and be a big man. Bad stretch of days. Too much running thru my head for me handle sometimes.

None of these thoughts are complimentary to my wife so I hold them in. She destroys me mentally and possibly for life and I get to hold in my bad thoughts about her.

Don't know where I am in recovery. Just riding a rough wave.

Fighting some demons in my head for 2 days. Trying to stay cool around kids and fww and be a big man. Bad stretch of days. Too much running thru my head for me handle sometimes.

None of these thoughts are complimentary to my wife so I hold them in. She destroys me mentally and possibly for life and I get to hold in my bad thoughts about her.

Don't know where I am in recovery. Just riding a rough wave.

write them down, DONT say them to her, not yet talk about them once you digest them and if they mean anytinng.... not just the rollercoaster crap.

come on mike you are doing great, havent seen you around, thats a good sign


oh yeah i have alot of money owed too, forget it.....

Terrible weekend. Ended with some tears from fww. No ao but still she asked what my bad mood all weekend was about. Now she knows. I am having trouble with lots of things. Mostly how does someone who did what she did expect me to forgive? The mental movies are doing me in emotionally. She asked. H and O right?

H & O tempered with love. yes. What's giving you trouble brother?

Cv_ same old story. My issues in my brain. She's followed the program to the letter it me who falls short with the past coming into my head all too often. The mental movies doom me to depression and anxiety.

Mike, those movies will eventually end. It will take some time (that time depending on how long you dwell on them), but they will end.

I would suggest a complete change of circumstances, to accelerate the healing process. This includes relocating, and changing everything you can change. The less triggers around, the less times your brain will be playing those movies for you.

In my case, I tried to change as much as possible, but I kept our home (where my WW engaged in her A), and our marital bed (ditto). As a result, those movies kept going in my head for years after D-Day, and every now and then they still appear, though they are a lot rarer now. I would have found it difficult to move, considering we're in such a great location, but I should have tossed out that bed years ago!