Things are slowly but surely getting better, thanks in small part to the support and guidance that you all have provided. I'm following the MB process faithfully and with hope.

Conversation, affection, recreational companionship...their all getting better. I think it may even be time to pull her a little more into the process to get her to participate.

I'm going to try doing the emotional needs survey and get her to follow suit. I'm going to give her my completed survey with a blank one for her to do. We kind of talked a little about it last night, indirectly. I asked her, like SAA suggests, how I was doing at fulfilling the needs I have been trying to fulfill. She's floored with my efforts and says it is making her feel really good. I told her not to be shy about giving me feedback, good or bad. She was very open to it. So, yeah, definitely time for the EN surveys.

What it is impotant to know is there are stages of grief you go through even YES after being a BS in an affair type situation.

You will go thru all cycles of grief and the WS imho, should know that it is NORMAL b/c they CAUSED this, and while you're in recovery, meeting all her EN's, she should also be told that she should soon begin to lift a little in the relationship because of the horrible pain inflicted on your soul.

I went thru all the stages of grief and then back again some. It is only normal and natural. I think there shouldn't be AO, or DJs' going on, but the fws needs to know that they caused YOU undeniable pain and suffering.

They all want you to forgive and forget, and to have themselves not have to do any heavy lifting...which to me is a form of the fog yet still.

First and foremost, that should have been "thanks in NO small part". (too late to edit, sorry bout that)

peachy, I get what you're saying. I'm definitely still suffering. And there is a big part of me that feels I am doing all the work here when she is the one who had the A. I keep telling myself it's the fog and that once it has cleared things will be different, that she will have to make an extraordinary effort too.

Until that point though, I'm fighting for my family when she is too fogged out to do it. My love for my wife and family is greater than my hurt pride or ego. I will persist.

SH, I would focus on getting her into a plan of recovery or this will not work. Going along to get along will result in a long slow death of a thousand cuts. This is the biggest mistake that BSs make, they are so enamored with the relief of killing the affair that they ignore the recovery of their marriages.

If your marriage does not recover, you are headed for a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage and probably future affairs. If she won't participate in recovery, I would let her know that this is headed towards divorce. You really can't afford to lower the bar this low, SH. It won't work. Your marriage will not recover without a plan, and HOPE is not a plan.

Well, she's not as defogged as I would like at this point but I'm not surprised.

We saw the MC today. When asked how things were going, she said things were going great, she's noticed a genuine change in me, she's 100 percent committed to reconciliation and can't imagine life without me. She mentioned all the increased affection, conversation, attention and SF and how she loves every minute of it.

Keenly, the MC asked a good question which I was surprised that she had the foresight to ask. Who initiates all of this (affection, SF, etc)? And my wife admitted it was me and she mostly just "reciprocates".

Funny that she used that word because that is exactly what I feel. She's just "reciprocating". Whereas I am spontaneously expressing the feelings within me every time I show her affection, she is just "reciprocating".

I pointed out that I don't want "reciprocation". Some of that anger that you said I'd experience crept out. It was directed at OM, though, not my wife. I went off on a "F" bomb filled rant about the OM and how I don't care about his feelings (in regards to exposure).

I pointed out all of the above in your last post Melody. I refused to let this be swept under the rug without committing to a plan of recovery. I repeatedly listed the extraordinary precautions that I want her to agree upon. She, and the MC, agreed on them.

She's still angry about the exposure process. Still some fogbabble coming out in regards to me shaming and embarassing her. I offered no apologies and pointed out that HER ACTIONS are what shamed and embarassed her, not me telling people about her actions.

MC kind of agreed with both of us on this point. She pointed out that my wife feels that I exposed only to make her feel the hurt I felt. I pointed out that it was not my purpose to do that. It was my purpose to kill the A which my wife was not doing on her own up to that point.

My wife says that she doesn't think I'll ever forgive her. I repeated my love for her and hope for our marriage and that forgiveness is possible but she has to work for it (by committing to recovery plan and agreeing to extreme precautions).

Overall, the talk with the MC felt like a step back AND a step forward. It was a step back, because my wife obviously is still fogged and ANY discusion of the A is a LB in her mind. It was a step forward because we got to talk about it, I insisted on following the MB process, and she seemed open to it.

We'll see.

Good to hear SH. Keep on that plan of showing her your best side. We all slip into the anger, its going to actually happen more as she starts showing more emotions towards you. Shew... its that old roller coaster ride. It will get better. The record sounds great and its what you still need to be repeating.
On the side note with MC. Dont let MC dive back into past mistakes. Make her help focusing on the future or fire her. Fixing the past cant be done its over and done. Fixing the future is achievable.
Keep up the good work your training a new puppy per say. It takes patience of Jobe.

Well, it seems yesterday's talk with the MC was a bigger step forward than I thought. Had heart to heart with my wife last night. She said she's willing to fully commit to whatever steps I think are necessary to rebuild our relationship.

I'm very happy and hopeful.

Still here. Still reading. Still learning. Still struggling...

I'm fighting that anger you all told me I'd experience. Some days are harder than others. It creeps in from time to time and I really dont know how to handle it other than to surpress it.

Different things will trigger it, but it's mostly hearing the text chime go off on her phone.

I'm also still the one making most of the effort. She does make some effort, which I will admit that I sometimes overlook because I expect more due to all the efforts that I am making. I am the only one who initiates when it comes to SF, that's for sure. The SF has been great, but I don't want to be the only one to initiate.

I have to constantly remind myself that its only been a few weeks and that this all takes time and a commitment to follow through with this recovery process to ensure we dont go right back to the way things used to be.

Again, things are definitely getting better. I really don't like this anger and sadness that I keep feeling when triggered. I don't want to feel this way. When I'm triggered, I kind of just shut down and become a little distant. She immediately notices the difference (hysterical bonding stops) and the incessant "what's wrongs" start. It takes an extraordinary effort for me to snap myself out of it and try to act as if nothing is wrong. I never tell her what I was thinking about that made me distant.

I want these feelings to go away.....but I know they won't without a lot of time and effort.

Anyway, just venting again. Thanks for listening (reading).

Why are you withholding this important information about your feelings from your wife? Does she understand what triggers are? If not, I suggest you make a point of discussing triggers in your next MC appointment so she can hear a professional's perspective. Then share with your wife what triggers you most often, and work with her to find solutions. Confronting triggers together is an opportunity for couples to re-build intimacy. It troubles me that you are instead putting up walls.

Thanks for the reply. Funny thing is, I'm MADLY in love with her. Always have been. None of this has changed that. It's just made me determined to never take for granted that she knows it.

I think a big part of why I'm having such a hard time is that there have been very little extraordinary precautions followed through with yet nor has the topic of just compensation even come up yet.

I just got her to agree with reading HNHN. She hasn't yet, but I've given it to her nonetheless. I ask every once in awhile if she's read it yet. The answer is always not yet but she wants to.

Again, adds to the feeling that I'm making all the effort and makes it that much harder to suppress feelings of anger and sadness.

We read HNHN together--a chapter each night, taking turns reading sections aloud. After each chapter, we went through the questions. We were able to do this gently and thoughtfully and found it very helpful to talk about the needs together. Afterward, we did LB the same way.

You could ask your wife if she would join you in doing the reading together on a daily basis. We found evenings worked best.

The only book we read completely on our own was SAA.

Why haven't you two discussed EPs or Just Compensation? This needs to be covered as soon as possible. Betrayed spouses cannot go back to what the marriage was like pre-affair. We MUST have transparency and the building of the romantic relationship in marriage.

Reading the books together is an excellent idea that I hadn't thought of. I don't know if she'll go for it yet, though.

I brought it up again today. She said she wants to read the book, but only because it is so important to me. She's not enthusiastic about it. She also said she'll read the book on her own when it is her decision to do so and not when she feels I am pressuring her to read it.

In regards to EPs or Just Compensation, I honestly only first read about Just Compensation yesterday. I don't remember it being explicitly mentioned in SAA. The EPs that we've discussed were all suggested here from other posters. She reluctantly agreed to the EPs I suggested, but there is no way for me to know she is following through with them other than to just believe her.

MelodyLane wrote this excellent post and I have re-quoted it here for you. What she wrote is an absolute necessity for your marriage to recover.

Okay, so your W not enthusiastic about this now. My FHW wasn't very enthusiastic at first, but he agreed with the EPs and marital recovery plan. Over the next few months, he was more and more on board with MB. Now he sees the adultery and his affair partner for what they were--skanky and disgraceful. He's terribly embarrassed by the whole thing. And he now sees the need for the EPs. I did NOT let up or give in on this need, and neither should you.

Well, the jury is still out on how that on just went.

I just had a conversation with her in regards my need for these EPs. I expressed how I have been struggling with various triggers. I expressed my desire to stop feeling the way I do (lack of trust). I expressed that these EPs are what I need her to do in order to start building trust and to further our recovery.

She expressed a willingness to go along, but I sensed disagreement and/or ambivalence. She said she wants me to do whatever I think is necessary to make me feel better. She added that she feels it is excessive and that nothing will ever be good enough. She expressed frustration that I don't just trust her and that I am still snooping and that I find it necessary to verify before trusting.

I reminded her that things were not always like this, that I used to trust unconditionally, but that her A had changed everything. She acknowledged that and agreed but still was sad and couldn't believe that I could ever forgive her.

I again expressed my undying belief that we could get through this, that we could trust each other, and that our marriage could be stronger than it ever has been if we stick to this process and make extraordinary efforts.

In regards to episodes where I have become suspicious and questioned her, I offered this bit of encouragement. Each time my mind has assumed the worst when something seemed fishy and I confronted her about it, the explanation she offered had proven to be verifiable and the truth. I told her that each time I have walked away feeling bad for having doubted her, feeling downright stupid either. I added that the patience and compassion with which she responded to my suspicions went a long way in making me feel better about the situation. I told her that it wasn't going to take very many more times of me being completely wrong in the assumptions that I make before I get tired of driving myself crazy with suspicion and she proves that she is trying to be faithful and trustworthy. I told her that I'm already tired of being suspicious and these EPs are what I feel is necessary to make those feelings go away.

In the end, I reminded her of how much I love her and how much hope and faith I have that we can work through this and be stronger and more in love for it.

She said she understood how I felt, she was ashamed, she was sorry, and she was determined never to hurt me again. She still seemed very sad about it all.

Again, the jury is still out on how this will change things.

One thing that is sure to be a sticking point is that I told her while I love HER and am committed to rebuilding OUR trust and relationship, I have no such faith or dedication to reconciling with a female friend of hers that was in cahoots with her during her A. She didn't like that at all.

It's been about a month since I've posted anything. I've wanted to post several times but have been busy giving and receiving UA that I haven't had the chance.

I've had quite a few days where something has triggered negative emotions and I've REALLY needed to post here, but have not been able to get away in order to do it.

Even so, things have been going exceedingly well. I've stuck to the MB process pretty religiously. I still have not been successful in getting her to read HNHN yet. She's still clinging to the "not wanting to be pressured into reading it" thing. So instead, I try to coach her through the process without coming off as if I'm lecturing. That's NOT easy to do.

My feelings of hurt, betrayal and a lack of trust are still here. I still am very suspicious about things that don't make sense at first or appear to be related to an A. I verify before trusting, and then verify again. Each time, she's proven herself to be true and I've felt like a jerk for needing to verify for myself. I don't like acting like this but I have a need to do it anyway. I hope with time and continued effort (from both of us) that this feeling fades.

Shattered, you are still very early into this. Sometimes it takes a WSvawhile to get through withdrawal from the OP. How do you handle these triggers? Can you give us a specific example? Expect the triggers to continue for awhile, but how you handle them is very important. I see that you're meeting a lot of her needs, is she doing the same for you? The last thing you need is a false recovery. Did she put EPs into place? Is she still talking to toxic friend?

Hang in there! This does take time.

Great deal...All of this is very normal. Make time to post, you have to vent and have support. Thats why we are here every day to give and get support.
Keep on spoon feeding her the info. MY FWW didn't want to do much reading at first either...same garble. The proof is in the pudding tho. Keep spoon feeding her. Soon you will ask her if the changes you have made please her. If she says yes accredit it all to MB and ask her to join. Be creative in suggestions. "I would love it if we could take some time to read a few paragraphs or watch a short video together that may help us" Or "would you agree to try some reading together to see if it helps for say 30 days. If after that you dont think its benefiting us we can try something else".....BABY STEPS.
The thing that got me was I gave up my first go round. Settled for a false Recovery and withdrew because of the hurt/resentment. Needs went unmet again, no POJA, no time. no PORH and BAM, she was chit chatting again with a new OM. I seen it coming but thought no way she would do this again. Her need for conversation was so powerful she had to fill it. She sacrificed everything. Home, cars, church, friends and family. She quickly de fogged tho upon exposure. 30 days maybe. Then she started putting in the work. Now I gaurd my M like the secret service does Obama. I wont ever feel like a jerk for asking anything. I have the RIGHT to ask and the RIGHT to know. Transparency is a requirement of M not a option.
Your biggest battle is to not settle back into complacency and the BS resentment.
IF she is not willing yet to work the plan she has not made compensation and you will continue to feel the resentment. I agree with princessm. Keep spoon feeding her one spoon full at a time and give it some more time. She will come around if YOU dont get complacent. And as a side bar "complacency" will lead to a FR. (false recovery)
Shattered you have come a long way through a WAR. Keep on the battle plan. You will win it if you do.

princessm, there have been about three times that I've been triggered. Most of the time, I retreat to "my cave" in my head to try to rationally sort things out before I confront with crazy accusations and disrespectful judgments. The problem is, it is obvious when I am in that place, she notices, and the incessant "What's wrongs" start until I tell her what is on my mind.

Early on, it was the ringing of the cell phone with text messages that would trigger me. It would always cause me to snoop to verify who was messaging. That was early on though when the pain was really raw. I explained to her how the texting made me feel. To make me feel better, she has no qualm with showing me who is texting. She no longer guards her phone as if it contains state secrets. In fact, she often forgets where she left it and I have to find it for her.

On one occasion my mom (who I exposed to and is even more suspicious and reports all activity to me that she finds suspicious now) told me that she had been in a text messaging conversation with my wife when out of the blue the conversation continued as if it was from my wife but came from a different phone number that she was unfamiliar with. I was at work when my mom told me this. Immediately my mind raced to the worst possibility. I assumed she had downloaded a "free texting" app on her phone, was in mid conversation with OM on the app, and accidentally responded to my mom from her free texting app. I couldn't handle not knowing. I took a surprise break, went home, and calmly asked her about it. She explained that she was texting my mom, got tired of talking to her, and had my daughter finish the conversation for her from her texting app on her iPod (i.e. "Hey, text grandma this."). So, I entered the strange number into my phone, shot off a text, and sure as heck it matched up to the number I had listed in my address book for my daughter.

I felt like a total [censored]. My wife was very understanding and patient with my suspicion and the way she treated me did a lot to alleviate my feeling like a total jerk.

That's not always her reaction though. The last trigger was a doozy and she responded with foglike despair (i.e. "You're never going to trust me" type statements). The last trigger was such a doozy because it wasn't one trigger. it was series of triggers all related to the same event: An out of town trip that I could not participate in.

My wife and daughters are very active in scouting. They have been scheduled for an out of state trip that they've been working hard doing fundraisers for for two years. The trip alone, given the context of the recent A, gave me a high level of anxiety and in it of itself was a trigger. Then, I hear one of my daughters mention that they also might visit one of my wife's relatives that lives near where they were going. While all the other girls were taking a chartered bus, my wife would take her car and follow behind so they could leave the group and visit her family. That wouldn't have been a problem...had I heard that from my wife and not from my kids. It felt like a hidden agenda, dishonesty. Big trigger. And plus, what logical objection would I have to her visiting family and why keep that a secret? Oh, and when did I hear this from my kids? When my wife was out getting a new hairdo for the trip. That was another trigger for me, because for so long my wife had not been into primping and pampering herself. Her renewed interest in doing so coincided with her A. Trigger, trigger, trigger.

I went into my cave, she immediately noticed and drug it out of me. Without making accusations, I explained how each trigger made me feel and why. She said she understood why, she hated herself for making me feel that way, and she felt things would always trigger me. I explained that with time and effort it would happen less and less.

In regards to driving while everyone else took a chartered bus, she said that it was never her plan to do that. It was something that her relative mentioned she should do a long time ago during early planning for the trip, the kids overheard her talking on the phone about it, and they must have taken that idea and ran with it. She said it was never her intention to do so and that she was not going to.

And she didn't. She offered not to go at all. While that is what would have alleviated any and all anxiety I felt, I wasn't going to ask that of her. She would resent me forever if I had demanded that. So I took a leap of faith and she went on the trip. She called me nonstop the entire trip. My kids clung to her side the entire trip. She sent me status and photo updates the entire time.

That last series of triggers did something very weird to me emotionally that manifested in a way that really disturbed me. You see, my list of important emotional needs does not reflect those that males typically list (according to Dr. H). My most important emotional need is honesty. Affection and (like most males) SF come in close behind honesty, though. That night, after this last triggered blowup, I found myself very unattracted to my wife. I didn't want affection or SF from. Oddly, I wanted to want it but I didn't want it. Does that make any sense? I still felt love for her but because I felt such a violation of my most important emotional need, I was not physically attracted to her. And because I was not attracted to her, my next two most important emotional needs went unmet.

It was very weird for me. Why? Because the entire time, in my mind, I knew exactly why I felt the way I did. I knew the dynamic of unmet emotional needs thanks to the MB process. I'd be a liar if I said I didn't feel kind of girly for being so emotional and allowing my emotions to affect my need for SF. The old me would take SF any time I could get it. Throughout this entire recovery, though, the SF has been so mutually satisfying and frequent that I no longer feel that need to take it any time she's giving.

That night, we went to bed with kisses and a lot of verbal expressions of love. The next day we talked about how we felt that night. I explained everything I just explained above. She seemed to understand as much as anyone could who hasn't read any of the MB material. I took that as another opportunity to ask her to read HNHN. She again said she would when she didn't feel I was pressuring her to. I left it at that.

She has put EPs in place. It seems that she is sticking to the NC. I have her passwords (transparency). She immediately deleted the phony facebook account and has recently also deleted her real one and agreed to no more facebook. She agreed with not having opposite sex friendships. She agreed to no nights apart and enthusiastically supports my efforts at work to change my work schedule to days instead of nights. She has committed to a program of recovery (through a MC) but is still not on board with MB yet. Although she doesn't know it, she goes out of her way to emulate all of the things that I do (thanks to MB). So, she kind of is unknowingly following the MB process.

Along the way, I ask her how it makes her feel when I apply one of the MB principles (such as UA). When she replies how good it makes her feel and how loved she feels, I let her know that it makes me feel the same when she does it for me.

onemoretime, I'm definitely not being complacent (thanks to what I've learned here and from all of you). It has not been easy. We make extraordinary efforts daily. There are times when I need very bady to post here to vent or for support or for advice. It's been very hard to though because of how much work I'm putting into our recovery.

I lurk sometimes. That lurking confirms that I have a long way to go. Why? Because I read the stories that others post and relive MY pain. I wish I were to the point where I could reply to others and help. But I'm still busy soaking up all your help and helping myself.

I love my wife. I love my family. I will persist...and thanks to MB and all of you we will succeed.

boy whooh thank you for venting for me. had a trigger tonight, and now i know i am not overreacting. 3 triggers is not bad, i have 3 per day, some are mild like the phone and some i let my head run with, some are too funny now when confirmed not real, like when i took his phone and checked the gps online and thought HE was following me... silly me i had the phone.,,.

btw- you are not an [censored] or a jerk, you are just reacting to the way you are feeling and the situation you are in. and letting her know is a big step. having her respond, is amazing. cha ching.