Hello all,

If you have seen my previous post, I have been dating someone for about 8 weeks now. Things have gone well. Despite my baseless worries we have grown very close.

I practice all of the concepts here on MB and she, despite not being familiar with them has never exhibited a single one of the LB's.

Last night (really in the last 3 weeks) a huge (in my opinion) incompatibility has come up. We had been out and got back to her house around 11:15. We went for a walk till about 12:30am and when we came back we were both tired. After falling asleep on the couch for few minutes I suggested we go get in bed. She was perfectly fine with that. Here is the problem: She cannot sleep with someone else in the same bed. I am not talking about sex. I am talking about turning out the light snuggling in each others arms and falling asleep and being able to sleep through the night.

She tells me she has a difficult time sleeping and is up at all hours, doing laundry etc. She gets up constantly to use the bathroom. I am a light and consistent sleeper. 10:30pm and it is lights out. My eyes pop open at 6:30am and the day begins. Any sounds and I am awake.

We are serious about this relationship. Or long term goals are the same, to spend the rest of our lives together. But, I can't see this happening because I want to sleep in the same bed with the woman I love and spend my life with. Even if I compromise and sleep in the guest room, her stirring at 2am would wake me up.

She apologized so many times this morning, but this is just the way she is. My Dad has terrible sleep appnea and he has not slept in a bed with my Mom in 25 years. I can't live that way.

I have been divorced 2 1/2 years. I was married 22. I have had many wonderful relationships. So dating and relationships are not new to me. I have and am praying about this. In so many ways I have seen God's fingerprints on this relationship. I can't believe that this issue would doom it.

Opinions please

kayaker, the most important thing is choosing a mate is your ability to resolve problems like this. The inability to solve this problem in a way that suited you both would be much more problematic than her night routine. Have you discussed ways with her to resolve this problem if you were married?

Only briefly. I am very leery about trying to change someone, because I would not want someone to try to change me. Change comes from within. That is my opinion. I do intend to compassionately discuss it some more.

She is also very hot natured. Meaning that she has a low tolerance for heat. This make snuggling in bed difficult. If I wrap my arms around her, even under the ceiling fan, there will be sweat wherever I touch her. I don't know how she could change this even if she wanted to.

Kayaker, I would reconsider that view if I were you. What makes a successful marriage is the willingness to change to accommodate the marriage. Doing only what comes "naturally" is a marriage killer and is what Dr Harley calls a "freeloaders" mentality. Have you ever read his book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders? Here is an excerpt:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

MelodyLane,

Thank you, this helped me and gives me some peace. I do know the concept of the Renter vs Buyer. I agree with every one of these points and Dr Harley's explanation of it too.

In addition, kayaker, the symptoms you describe sound much like a physical problem. How old is this woman? She may well be going through menopause or pre-menopause. (Hey, it happens to all females.) There are supplements of varying types that can help. Has she ever talked to a doctor about this?

Oh, she is going through menopause, no doubt. She just started during our relationship. Horrendous hot flashes.

But

She has made statements that this (not being able to sleep with someone or alone) is a problem. She has never had children so she never had to get up early. This has caused her to become somewhat of a night owl.

I am going to talk with her and brain storm a solution. Who knows maybe the cooler weather of the fall and winter will help. By then maybe physically she will have evened out and we will have worked out a solution and our relationship will be stronger.

Well, you did say in your other post you had a bad feeling. I'd say this is what it was.

Here is something to read:

Delayed sleep phase syndrome

Does that sound like her? Sleep incompatibility is not a good thing, I can speak of that from experience.

I am what the article considers an "extreme night owl". I do not consider it a disorder, as for me, it's normal. Yes, it has caused problems in my marriages, looking back.

What hours does she normally sleep, and can she sleep with someone at that time? Or is it just at night she can't sleep with someone?

Well, first of all, I think you should stop viewing your new relationship as a sign from God, that is a recipe for ignoring incompatibilities as they come up. The whole point of dating is to determine (over time!) whether you are compatible, not to pre-suppose that you are compatible before you even know the person. As I told you in your other post, there will be red flags, you just need to be on the lookout for them.

The sleep incompatibility can indeed be an issue. If it's 1/2 hr difference, then no biggie. If you start talking 2-3 hr difference, you really have to see how that would affect your life. Would she be ready to go for a morning walk when you want to? Will you be up for a midnight outing when she wants one? Not once or twice, or when you are in a new love, but on a regular basis?

I once dated someone whose schedule was shifted from mine by about 4-5 hours. I tried to make it work, because I liked the lady quite a bit, but it became silly. I am a morning person, and she could not get up in time to see a 1:00 baseball game. Shoot, by the time she was "ready", I had already had breakfast, read the paper, seen the kids' soccer game, made lunch... you get the idea. I couldn't be involved with someone like that.

AGG

AGG,

All points well taken. I am not quite sure about your first one. "a sign from God" I agree to some extent with that, for I do not pretend to know his mind. I just know, within the context of this relationship, I have seen things that have no explanation. Nothing dramatic in and of themselves. She has expressed some of the same feelings that God's hand was in our finding each other. She really has dated some losers.

I don't feel that either of us is overly religious. We just share a similar faith. We do believe in the power of prayer and I feel that we are praying for the same thing.

The point well taking about ignoring incompatibilities.

We had a wonderful talk last night. She gave me insights to some of the things I was screwing up. She was scared that I would have my feelings hurt. The bottom line is that I was coming on too strong. That I was too surgery sweet. She said she attracts that type of personality because of her sweetness (that she recognizes). I don't know that she attracts it so much as brings it out in people.

Kayaker,

My DH is in bed by 11 and sleeps all night happily. I think I'm lucky if I manage 3 hours without interuption. We've made things work. Sometimes I take Benadryl before bed, sometimes I take other sleep aids, sometimes it's a glass of wine. I don't expect him to put up with me being up and down all hours of the night, that's unreasonable to him.

When he's out of town I do laundry all night - I'm awake often enough that I can do 2 or 3 loads in a night and still get my 4 hours of sleep. Since DH is still traveling every week I generally stay up all night the night before he comes home so I can sleep without aids the first night home. SF will always put me out like a light for hours.

Part of my issue is I'm terrified of sleeping soundly when I'm alone because I don't think I'd wake up if someone broke in, so I never relax. Not very healthy for me!

Is she is the pre menopause phase of life? Maybe early to mid 40's?
Or, has she had her ovaries removed?

Insomnia & heat intolerance has made me wonder ????

OOOOOpsie ..... I just read the answer to this one.

Hopeful,

We had some great conversations this weekend on this subject. I feel that she does have a "buyer's" mentality. I think we can work it out.

I think some of it is along the same lines in reverse. She has expressed that she has trouble sleeping WHEN I am there as opposed to when I am not. That is she feels safer alone than with me. She recognizes that this is an issue. She (and I) also recognize that this may take some time to over come. Same as you, she says she can take an ambien and be out like a light.

She is very good natured about the menopause thing and takes it in stride and even laughs about it. But it is a bad time of the year to go through it.

The bottom line is I think we can work it out and she has the desire to work it out. That makes all the difference.

Just so you'll know. . . peri-menopause is not like having a baby where it lasts for a certain amount of time and it's over. The hot flashes/insomnia/emotional upheaval/etc is more like going through puberty. It comes and goes and takes a long time--it can last for years.

Has your GF talked to her doc about it? A combination of lifestyle changes and medication can alleviate symptoms somewhat.

This is true. Mine came on smack in the middle of my divorce so it was hard to know what exactly was going on with me. Post divorce doc did hormone check and said, 'yep you are definitely done.' So he put me on the mildest hormone to stop the hot flashes and anxiety (a creeping sensation up my neck and head over minor issues). If I miss the pill I can feel it within 4 hours. So I don't miss it.

As for the sleeping situation....I married in November and my dh and I are very affection people. My dh says my body is like a heating pad. I can do nothing about this. It annoys me (and probably him) that we can't stay wrapped up in each other's arms all night, but hey what do you do. We often go to sleep wrapped up and wake up apart because we just can't take the heat coming from my body! LOL It hasn't changed how we feel about each other. We are madly deeply in love and can't stop touching each other.

As far as her not being able to sleep with you there...I think that is just something she will have to adjust to.

Honestly, I would never throw out a perfectly good person for what you described, but that's me, we're all different. She could see a doctor for solutions for both the hot flashes and the insomnia...and you could work on more tolerance. But ONLY if you both deem the relationship worth the effort...if not, I guess you part ways and keep looking for that "perfect person" (in my mind, no one fits that bill). Good luck!