I have been here before cause I married a widower and his 3 children about 3 years ago. I devoted myself to this man ( who I still love) but he is rejecting me because I moved out of the home due to his many about 6 paying monthly dating websites, talking to old girlfriends, and cheating on me. He has told our friends that I am paranoid and mentally ill. I had asked him about the dating sites and sex crap on his cell phone. He hit the roof and told me to leave the home about 3 months ago. I refused at that time cause I love him and hoped our union would get better. It did not ...in fact disappeared a few days at work...he said at work but called him coworkers said absent that day ; then bought 4 cell phones for him and numbers to keep up with his babes and still online with the very nasty dating sites & owns cell phones numbers.

I went thru some very emotional things with him and his 3 step childen. No they did not like me I learned at all. They were upset with me and did subtle things to me such as; cut 2 fins off with my red beta fish, tried to poision my dog, burned my sunglasses, cut tiny holes in one of my dresses-my widower hubby did nothing or said nothing to them about it. This hurt me deeply. It was a sign he did not really love me in the true sense of the word. I stopped wearing my wedding ring for about 6 months so upset with him(but he did not care)cried at nite in bed with him; no response cause he did not care.

Well I moved out of the home (all my things and my 2 bio children too)about 2 weeks ago; hoping he would miss me and want to fix our broken marriage. He has emailed and phone me he will not change his lifestyle and I am not the man he really wants. He blew up that moved out and told all his kids I left not cause of them but because their Dad and I have a problem. AS theri Dad not allowed to talk to them since step kids and he said they were hurt. I do feel bad about that but he was forewarned something was going to happen when he is not acting like a proper Chrisitian husband.

Well I am the walking wounded and really hurt now. I do love this man very much but with him not protecting & supporting me emotionally, wanting me to be like his deceased wife of 4 years, and the affairs are more proof he does not like or love me. He refuses counseling or talking it out to save the marriage. The sad thing my husband I am now separated from has told other church members that I am mentally off and paranoid. I am upset the church members believe my husband. I have never done anything wrong there or anywhere.I do not drink or am not a substance abuser or do not have a personality disorder but work full time outside the home in a career as a manager. Right now trying to enroll in MBA program.

I think I should send the pastor(he married us)at this church a letter explaining what happened. I have pictorial proof too of his affairs I am not lieing. What do you think? Also the almost ex hubby told me I cannot go to our past church we attended together. I think this is so unfair because I did nothing wrong in the marriage.

SableVenus

SV,

Your husband has no right to tell you where to go to church. Period. Go wherever you want to go, whenever you want to go there. This is a free country. He will just have to live with it.

You absolutely should send the pastor the proof of your WH's affairs.

On MB, we call this "exposure". When you expose affairs, they often collapse rapidly. Tell everyone he knows, and everyone in both families about his affairs. Offer the proof if they do not believe you, and tell them that you have the pictures.

The fact that he told other people that you are crazy is nothing new here. This is his attempt to damage your credibility, so that he can continue to present himself as a normal and safe guy - and paint you as the paranoid soon-to-be-ex-wife who has just gone off her rocker and nobody should listen to a word you have to say.


The problem he will run up against is that others will soon see the truth, especially if you send the pastor (as well as your family and your husband's family) your letter of exposure and any proof you might have if they ask for it.



From what you have described, I would definitely not stay in the home with this man. You have children, and this man's kids seem to be ready to cause you harm. Your own kids could be harmed by them, and I would make sure my kids were safe - even if it meant that I walked away from a man/marriage. My kids are far more important.

I understand you want to save the marriage. Usually in affairs we recommend exposure, then the betrayed spouse practices what is called Plan A; if this doesn't work, then implementing Plan B is in order to protect the wayward spouse.


In your case, I would recommend you do an EXTREMELY short Plan A (maybe one week), and meanwhile you are planning for Plan B. You should go very dark in Plan B on this man if you want to save the marriage.


Hang in there.


SB

SV, I am a newbie BS but feel GloveOil makes an excellent point. Enlighten us, though. Why do you love him, what is it he does/did to meet your ENs? Do you think there is a reason or starting point to his waywardness that you can pinpoint? What point do you want him to 'return' to?

Indie girl, GloveOil and Schoolbus

Your points are all valid and I actually think the marriage is over. He has verbally told me and written it in emails to me, I have been quiet and calm and try to get hm to see the error of his ways. He still lies and says he has not but I know different plus pictures and he did tell me one time he did committ adultrey while married abot 3 months ago. At that confession I was calm and said let us save the marriage and go to counseling; he refused. That is why I moved out 2 weeks ago plus he has been lieing to me about his whereabouts. He was very upset when I moved out cause he said it stressed and hurt the 3 children so much. I am sure it did but as husband it is his fault. I believe he has had the serial cheating problem for a long time but refuses to admit it. I saw some signs.... he would not get close to me or be intimate after love making. When i boguht him some gifts ; desk, CD for huis car, leather office chair ; he ws very uncomfortable in accepting the gifts. Maybe I smothered him in loving ways and cooking him his favorite meals,etc. Still he was very distant after we married. Before marriage he wwas as they say inot me. When found out after maried 2 yrs he had affairs it hurt me deeply. I am guesing this pattern dies hard. Also he has tried in the past to put me in some positions the past wife spot on some issues; she accepted his open marriage crap even though she did not like it. Her 2 best friends told me this info.

Anyway I have inquired of his closed off self to me. He has yelled at me he is just quiet and not close to any of his past wives when alive. I have watched him talk to other females and he is friendly to a point,but closed mouth with me. I am not a nagger type of wife but calm and too plain and not very witty I guess. However I have seen him letting loose with last 2 wives in pictures but not me. He has been married 2 times ; both spouses died of natural causes. First wife was 25 years old than him and was a nag; 2nd wife was 15 yrs younger but he loved her dearly casue she was kind and fun person and gave him one daughter. Other 2 of his are step kids from 2nd wife; legally adopht them. I was the nanny wife to help him wiht 2 step kids and one bio daughter plus my 2 bio children. Looking back I do not think he ever loved me especailly now when he will not talk to me hardly at all and refuses marriage counseling. I hurt him and the kids too much but he takes no fault about this at all..I am just a crazy obsessive wife.

He has affairs when he is stressed I believe and it is like a bad habit. Also he has a terrible temper too, but that I handle ok. I do love this man but realize he is not giving up his lifestyle as he told me 3 times. I do think I should let our pastor know his weakness but it is scary to do that; he might hurt me. I will go to another church.

The other thing is he is super shy, nice person lovely person really, and I do love him cause I do not think he has been loved properly in his life by wives and family over the years.

If he could get help for his problem serial cheating or sex addict; he could be saved and help all of us in the family. However he does not want too. He lives a double life. I had signs that he only wanted me to be nanny or agree to an open marriage which he had before. I refuse this for so many reasons. So he is upset I left and hurt children; he does not see he hurts the children with his behavior online affairs is ruining our marriage. He told me I can be replaced and probably has someone waiitng in the wings. He also told me never talk or visit his step/bio children. Their bio mom died 4 yrs ago. This is painful for them because I was going to still help him here and there, but this is probably best thing I am not there totally. He can raise and get another woman to take my place easily. I do hurt horriblely and feel empty, because I did everythign right to please him and the children but was rejected a lot. I took that from the step kids but when found out he was screwing around that really hurt bad!!! I cry every nite and drag thru my days but now I am walking wounded person. One thing my hubby does not know once I get to a certain point I will never take him back. I tried to talk to him 3 times; he hung up on me after the lecture about staying away from the church.

Thanks for listening. It means a lot and helps ease my pain.

Sable Venus

Sable,

I am sorry you are here and are going through this. SB and others will give you good advice regarding saving your marriage. In advice to the church, let me advise a few things... Historically there are 3 marks to a genuine church, the right preaching of the Word, The right administration of the Sacraments, and Church discipline.

As you can imagine these three are all tied together, as how a church understands the Bible affects how they discipline or observe the Lord's Supper, etc... I think your husband at least partly knows this. Go to the pastor with your evidence. Tell him you are required by Matthew 18 to do so. Take it to the elders and let him be disciplined so that he can be brought to repentance. Unless your husband is the pastor of the past church, you have every right to be there. Churches are for hurting and sick people. They are for the wounded. I am very familiar with different denominations disciplinary practices... If you tell me the denomination (or non-denom) I can help you with this process. Others here may be able to as well.

In the meantime, expose his affair to his family and yours.

CV

CV- Thank you. I will follow this advice. The ole church was Lutheran who had married us and many friends from the ole church still in neighborhood. The new church we attended is Christian-non denominatial but a huge church over 300 people attend on Sundays.

The only thing scares me is I do not think hubby really loved me when we first got married in the full sense of love between a man and woman. I think he married me cause as a widower with 3 kids ages 12, 11 and 6; he needed help in all kinds of ways. I did not care about nuturing his children cause I have 2 of my own kids and love the fmaily life while making good memories for us. I was divorced befoer hooked up wht current hubby and missed the nuturing and helping the children cooking cleaning etc. I guess that is not the most important thing in a family is love and care and making us feel like a team. I read a lot about blended families to prepare me, but it fell thru cause the oldest girl started disliking me and my kids and behind my back talked to my hubby. One day hubby sat me down and told me to raise the kids best I can cause he will not help at all. He does not want to be involved. I told him that is not fair or right and he has to help cause they will not listen to me. I think his past deceased wife handled all decisions on raising kids and did not want or ask for his help. He only brought in income. Hubby told me one time black women are very indepentent and do not need anyone. I told him that depends on the women; yes I as a black woman I am independent but I want my husband on my team; we are to be partners in life and friends to raise the children. (by the way the widower I married is white and his wife that died is black; but he adophted the 2 black children, the youngest one is biracial from he and past wife. My 2 bio kids are biracial too from my previous marriage. I thought we seven were a cute family and could survive the problems along the way but...

Alos I do not think I am like the last wife which pasted away. She and I were black but I am kinda like conservative and same age as my hubby. The last wife was a great person but very layed back, hoarder in the home, 10 yrs younger than my hubby, let kids be free to do own thing. I am not a nagger or screamer but I make routine lists, and talk a lot to motivate. Hubby and older step daughter are very close (she looks like deceased mom too) and I think he does what ever she says; sometimes I think him not standing up to her is causing the problem. He is not clinging to me as a wife is seems. When I left the home he tore up the lists and charts I made; step daughter hated them charts on cleaning and jobs per child in home. Step girl is very smart and manipulates the younger girl in not bonding with me,but think my hubby too. Instead of hubby talking to younger girl or taking up for me he says nothing. I am puzzled cause he defends his 2 step children and bio daughter against anyone; school teachers other kids..which is proper. He tries to please everyone me and them. I think at times too hard on him. I usually back off and let him please the children cause I am an adult. Also one day he took younger girl to local mall; hair uncombed, messy dirty shirt and she reeked of urine. I took hubby aside (not in front of her) and said I can clean her up a bit before leaving. He fussed at me and said she is fine and to leave her alone. He took little stepgirl to mall to shop like that and I stayed hom wondering why he got upset at me. I said nothing more to him. Little girl ahs went to school in 30 degree weather and no socks; I was really upset but hubby says nothing to support me.

I do think I help them so much I mean the odler girl when came in the home at 12 she was peeing at home not school, and had Pica. She , 12 yr old then ate rubber balls, dirt, and small rocks. Everyone said she just did this and could not stop. I watched her for awhile and she only did it when stressed or hungary or bored. I helped older stepgirl stopped her peeing at home; sometimes in the bed but never at school.It was a control and being lazy thing; I watched and took notes when it happened; never yelled at her. I helped her with the Pica too. She was glad I helped her. The younger girl pes relaly bad at nite; drencehs the sheet and carpet, floors etc. It is part of drinking large glasses of water before bed, vieiwing this a large picture of her mom & dad on her wall as she falls asleep. It is sad I think and constant reminder her mom is dead. Most of the time she ignores me in the home but when older kids are not there she cuddles up next to me. She has bonded wiht my bio daughter too. Hubby blocks our bonding at times. When we go to the mall; he takes her around and gets her food and shops, when I try to do it he will not let me. I told my hubby it hurts my feeling when he does not trust me take younger one around at mall. I think the younger girl is super spoiled and eveyrhting she see wants at the mall. She got really mad at me cause would not buy her $80 outfit. I explained calmly to hubby she is 8 yrs old and maybe another time but it was not in the budget. So I think she tells hubby not want to be with me. I had one summer wrote all the kids (13y girl, 7yr girl and 12 yr old boy) a letter could go to mall,buy them what ever want and lunch with just me. They refused. It hurt but Hubby did not encourage them. I am only trying to be their freind I cannot replace their mother. I think the older girl told the other 2 to refuse me cause it would hurt me. I have explained the dilemma to my 2 bio kids in the home and they were understanding cause they know step siblings lost their bio mom and have more needs. Also my bio kids see their bio dad every 2 weeks. Maybe jealous thing cause the 2 step black kids bio Dad does not have anything to do with them at all lives out of state. I guess my hubby who I love was using me to fill a void as a glorifed nanny wife till these kids get 18 and leave. It hurts me quie a bit but torn because I love hubby very much. He refuses to talk to me. Hubby seems he cannot get close to me. I accept his angry momments and do not expect perfection but now in his eys I do not measure up casue I wnat a real Chrisitan marriage. I did not go to his church today,but sat in parking lot and leave. They did not see me at all. Also I think hubby has some long time girlfriend ready to move in my old spot; my replacement. I guess only time will tell the story. I will not wait forever for him to want me back. I have decided I will stay alone the rest of my life cause he has hurt me badly with lies and deceitful actions and rejection from kids is hard to take ,but they are teens.. I guess that is why at one time he had the songs shackles on his feet song when his cell phone would ring. After that he got 3 more cell phones with locks kept on them.

Now I feel like the walking wounded. We must have a real marriage or I will not come back. I have been alone before and I can do it again with lots of prayer.

May be this is all a pipe dream but will follow the advice.


Since he will barely talk to me since I moved out and he has refused marital counseling for quite along time. My move I am sure is forcing him to make some changes. He has emailed and told me he will not change his lifestyle or his personaliy. I understand his shy reserve nature, but the outside affairs I do not understand.Spendign 200-300 dollars a month on dating websites and then hooking up wht profesisona ladies is not proper and I will not accept it. He refuses to admit he has a problem or does it I think cause stressed. One time I begged him to tell me why but he kept silent. He finally said he ahs been very bad but no details. Stressed again I do not care let us get marital counseling and fix it; start a fresh. No comment from him.

So I feel down deep he really never loved me that much,but I have always been CRAZY about him. I love to spoil him in meals, gifts and trying to help him in any manner in the home. I might of smothered hubby in love I guess which does not help when he never really loved me anyway. I was just used.

Sable Venus

SV57

Welcome to MB's.

Could you do us-the readers who are trying to follow along with your story a huge favor and break up your posts into smaller paragraphs?

We are all volunteers that take our time to read and help. With the way your posts are it makes it hard to decipher and honestly makes it hard to understand.

Have you read the Basic Concepts of the site? The link to it is up above in the red banner area. That would be a great place for you to start since most all the advice will be based on the concepts.

There also is a thread I will bump to the top called Thread to help newly betrayed posters by Scotland. There is a ton of links within it that will help to guide you around the site as you start out.

Hope this helps. Read. Come back with questions.

nESRE

Nesre
ok will do

Thank you!

Nesre or Celtic voyager
I just talked to hubby cause I have some books coming there in the mail. Hubby told me that he is not giving up his cheating problem and he loves me but not enough. He wants an open marriage like he had with previous wife. I am crushed but I will not go back. He does need help though. I really feel my replacement his new wife will be there soon

Sable Venus

SV57

Tough questions are asked here at times and I did not see a real answer to this.

Your on this board and we are concerned about you and what direction you want to go with your M.

Your WH is a seriel adulterer and has asked for a open M.




We are concerned how you feel about this and would you really want to stay with someone who openly wants an open M and why?

Just asking

nESRE

Nesre
No I do not want an open marriage but before I realize hubby was a serial cheater, we were so in tuned to each other and I thougtht happy. He has a kind soul and had a sad childhood,but he is so Christian acting and can be so pleasant. He was not perfect -we both have flaws but I overlooked them till this affair with other women popped up. It is disgusting and makes me sad and mad at the same time. I detest those women online names of Spitfire and Chocolatepudding! But he disgust me too! If he got counseling and stay close to the church he could fite this but he does not want too. I will leave him alone and he can bring in my replacement. I am staying away from men and this love thing for quite a while! Thank you

Hubby Bad points to add to reason stop loving him
Angry issues
Serial cheater
Never takes up for me
Not good with yard maintenance
Never would redo master bedroom
Let children boss him around
No team player; want constant independence
Not a traveler
Not a book reader


A Sad Sable Venus

I think that's the really important one. An even better description should be "unrepentant serial cheater".

IMO I think you need to walk away from this as quickly as possible. It's pretty clear to me that your WH likely M'd you to replace the "live-in maid with benefits" role his previous W filled.

This is the problem, Sable. The other things can be worked on, but as long as your WH is an unrepentent cheater nothing will be resolved.

He has made it clear that he does not want a committed marriage. You should run and not look back.

Kind soul? Can you give us an example of a kind action or are you basing this on (quite probably lying) words.

Sad childhood. Yeah I got spun this one too. Are you sure?

Christian acting. I have no doubt! No worse kind of hypocrite than a wayward.

It deposits tonnes of love units when you are feel you are helping someone, when they look up to and admire you, but its all just a trick.

Expose church-boy soon. It will hurt him SO BAD but will be good for him. Then listen to the vets on which tack to take next.

Sable,

Most churches will not discipline if you are just an attender. They can/will only discipline members. It may be that you will be required to go back to the Lutheran church to file charges.

You charges should be short and sweet. They need to be separate from the evidence. they need to be devoid of personal attacks and accusations. In essence, they should look something like this:

Nature of the Charges
I, Sable charge __________, with the sins of Adultery, bearing false witness, and coveting. The Word of God states that Adultery is a violation of the 7th commandment (Deuteronomy 5:18), False witness is a violation of the 9th commandment (Deuteronomy 5:20), and coveting (Deuteronomy 5:21). Furthermore, I have approached __________ in accordance with Matthew 18, in order to restore fellowship and confront his sin of adultery and have been unsuccessful, thus in accordance with Matthew 18, I am bringing it to the Church. I am filing this in accordance with ELCA Constitution and by-laws chapter 20.

Specification of the Charges:

Speciication 1 Adultery: On (insert date), I discovered that __________ was engaged in a sexual affair with ________. Upon further investigation I discovered that____Insert relevant details____.

Specification 2, Bearing False witness: On (Insert date) __________ violated the 9th commandment by (insert relevant details, hidden cell phones, lying about the affairs, etc...)

Specification 3 coveting: On (insert date), _______ violated the 10th commandment by coveting another woman (women) through various dating websites, and personal meetings intended to fulfill emotional and sexual desires outside of the covenant of marriage.



Signed: ___________


This should be generic enough to meet the requirements for most Christian Churches. What you will want to do is print all relevant emails, text messages and record separately all conversations (usually in a word document is fine), and keep them in a separate file. Make sure you keep copies of everything. You will most likely be called to testify. In Church disciplinary matters, many churches allow that the governing body may adopt the charges and specifications themselves and prosecute them on your behalf. You should inquire about this. This way, you will just have to testify to what you saw and heard.

I would definitely move towards full exposure. Friends, family, work.... Everyone. Make a list of everyone you can think of...

Hello CV and Nerse and Indie Girl

I will expose him to the church but very subtlely. They do not believe me but will use statement above and documents. Some of documents are quite distrubing to me he online having relations. That sent me into a shock and crying jag one day; so upset stayed home from work. Anyway can give them conversation, picture profile he created on CheatingWives.com saying he is not with the right woman....me. Proof of online subscribtions, logins over sex websites.etc.

Hubby is upset he got caught and I moved out. He is having hard time dealing with 3 kids alone I have heard. It is not my problem cause I was a devoted wife and there to help and love all of them. You do not cheat if you are truly in love with spouse!

Today my sweet Chrisitian lovely 20 yr old niece gave me a wonderful saying..REJECTION IS GOD'S PROTECTION. This helps me sum up this mess I have to survive through. She heard it at Chrisitian web site or read it in a spiriutal book. This did make me feel better and more secure I will outlive this mess.

I do think the marriage is over which is fine. He needs help. I got this point in my mind and heart after hearing the slogan that I am posting on my bedroom mirror.

Oh WOW I just remember when moved into hubby's home I found two religious based pamphlets. One pamphlet was on sex addiction and other on extra marital affairs. I asked hubby about it and I asked who had these problems? He lied and said the neighbor left it in his car. Boy was I dumb!

Yes IndieGirl, he always gave out lots of love units..you are this , you are that, blah blah, let me wash your back, rub your feet, etc ect .

Anyway, I will be doing a lot of P.U.S.H-pray until something happens tonite. I must rest and go to bed ....work tomorrow and class.

Thank you again!

Yours in Spirit,

Sable Venus

I just love this.

This isnt even in the same league as the dumb stuff I fell for. Would tell you but would be too embarrassed!