I wanted so much to post on my BH's (lookin4thehandle) thread (In Recovery forum) but that's not supposed to be done. I was upset that we didn't POJA the contents of his exposure letter to POSOM's W, but now I'm thankful we didn't. It appeared she got the letter Friday and based on the response I felt bad and withdrawn. Anyway, Dr. Harley's words that it isn't the truth that hurts, it's the A and lying that hurts kept coming to mind and that helped. Well, come to find out, it wasn't the wife that wrote that email, because she called my BH today to do exactly what Pepperband said: compare notes. I learned that my BH husband truly loves me, and I him, that I have a lot of compensating to do, and I am blessed beyond belief that he is willing to let me try. Thanks to all who supported my BH. It is time for me, now, to do the same. I'm feeling that he's my KISA! Because he stood up and did the right thing, it showed the OM to be who he is: POSOW(*uss). My withdrawal is done, all because of my BH, and I'm thankful, thankful, thankful! I wished the paralyzed guys could see our story to date and perhaps get off their duffs.
Oh, and I also learned today how very selfish I was and am. Gotta lot of work to do...

Be very honest: was some of you "upset" actually annoyance that your H outed you, and perhaps OM would be angry at you for this? Did you feel that your H "hurt" OM?

That is how my H felt when I contacted OWH recently about continued contact. He said he was moving out, and over that weekend he went to look at a few places to live. He said he was angry that I was trying to break up OW's marriage.

Why were you upset, really?

Hi Lifetimelearner! What exactly were you upset about?

LTL,

Post more, OK? Don't let the questions scare you. Go ahead and answer them. You'll get support here.

If I am reading right, your H exposed your A, and you are now grateful that he did? Is that right?

Sugar, if I am reading this right, LTL was upset about exposure( POJA doesn't apply, but I think she's using that acronym to explain her anger), but is now grateful that her H exposed.

I may be WAy off-base.

Thanks, Surfer. I did read what she said.

I was interested in whether she recognises that she was protecting her XOM and not her H.

It might be better to let her answer for herself, don't you think?

I was beginning to respond yesterday evening when my H came home, so I just put the phone down and the rest of the night and this morning was all FC and UA time.


I was already outed. He was already outed, ~4 months before I confessed to my BH who had known for only two weeks before he sent the letter. �I was absolutely sure the OMW found out and stopped the A. I was also convinced that she knew a lot and I was not concerned that she would gain new information from my BH (I had no feeling of wanting to protect OM nor any fear that he'd be angry). So, for them, it was 4 months of whatever recovery they had (they never contacted us) and I have heard so many people talking about getting low with triggers, etc. I didn't want her to be reminded again. �Although my concern was way too late and at the wrong end, I did feel some care. However, there was just no way my H could be sure about her knowing until he got it straight from her, and I agreed.�
I also didn't like being exposed for what felt like the third time since the A wasn't ongoing and I had gotten past withdrawal and had committed to NC for LIFE, and building a romantic marriage. I never had a problem with the letter itself saying that my BH knew about the A and wanted to verify that OM and I never met. I just thought he could make it general and allow her to ask for whatever detail she would want to know. �
As I said earlier, I told my emotions that it isn't the truth that hurts, it's the reality, so if the truth had to be exposed yet again for us all to heal, then so be it.



After giving this some thought, yes, indeed, he was the one who exposed it. The rest was just confession on my part and private confrontation on the other.

But the greater concern would be if the OMW didn't know about the affair and know everything your H knows. He had an obligation to make sure she knew. Of course she will be triggered, but that is because of the affair, not because of the truth. It was the right thing for him to do.

I know. I didn't give him all sorts of crap about it. I didn't try to stop him, either. However, I still had an emotional reaction based on the thoughts I just described. It turned out as well as one could hope, and it made up for not being able to write a NC letter. Neither one of us felt a NC letter at the time would do anything to help. This exposure letter did (two sets of eyes in two different places). The exposure letter did not make it worse for her, a moral to this story that may help others to make that important decision. The fact that she felt appreciative of my BH's contact wipes all of my negative feelings about it away. Again, I didn't try to make my BH "take it back" or anything of the kind. What you said is what I kept telling myself, that it isn't the truth that hurts. That got me through my feelings. The fake answer made me feel bad, the genuine communication between my BH and OMW made me feel good. That's what I was trying to express with my opening post.

Ah, we just signed up for the online course! On July 4th. Happy interdependence day?

Glad to hear it! I hope you like it as much as we did.

I know I haven't posted in a long time, but I have been keeping up with the posts and have been listening to the radio show every day. My husband and I are currently working with Steve Harley and I would recommend that if one's situation feels too difficult, save up what you can to get some sessions with him.

I've had several thoughts over the past year in regards to several issues that are discussed here, and I just wanted to share some thoughts about one regarding POJA. It seems some feel that it's really asking for permission to do something. Some answer "no, it's showing thoughtfulness."

Why does it feel like it's asking permission to many? My thought is it's because it is. However, the important thing is what are we asking permission for? How I view it, it's not as much asking permission to do something for oneself but rather asking permission to alter one's spouse's lifestyle. "How would you feel if I ..." is similar to asking "is it okay that I change your life, is it okay if I do this to you? Is it okay if I change your environment in this way?" Just my perspective.

Well, after my husband and I talked with Steve Harley this morning, my perspective has changed. The idea I get is that POJA is still not asking for permission even in the way I described above. It seems that the point of permission is that the one asking will abide by the answer, is constrained by the answer. So, even if one asks "How would you feel...", they can still choose to not consider the answer and do what they choose, therefore it's not asking permission, just asking for information.

Prisca and Markos, I am still here, I am still reading. The UA time became something I didn't enjoy. It didn't start out that way, it developed to that. I much appreciate the time you've given and the posts you've written. I didn't chime in for several reasons, one of them being that spouses aren't supposed to post on each other's threads. I don't know what else to say except to again thank you for your thoughts (prayers?) and posts.

What plan would you like help with?

Glad you're still around.

Hi, LL. It's good to see you, but sorry to see that things have come to this.

Looking at what Dr. Harley said, I can see why you didn't enjoy the UA time. Prisca had the same problem. She absolutely tormented me as I asked and begged for UA time, because she hated it. And just like Dr. Harley said, it turned out that to a great extent it fell to me to make things enjoyable.

Last year or so, I couldn't even get Prisca to go out on a date with me, because she was absolutely sick of demands on my part. Her perspective was "I have to do this, or markos will leave me," so everything felt like a demand, which meant that just going through with the basics of the program was causing love bank withdrawals.

There had to be a lot of talking that Prisca enjoyed before that turned around. And even still it seems every three months or so I've shot myself in the foot with angry outbursts. But it's amazing how, when the love busters are gone and I stay the course making whatever love bank deposits are possible, she becomes open to bigger and bigger deposits, until her feelings turn around, and suddenly she can't get enough time together.

Would you agree with L4TH that he hasn't had an angry outburst in two months? Does he seem disrespectful or demanding? I'm curious if the picture he is painting matches your perspective.

I think if he really gave this a shot, now that the anger is gone, there is a good chance he could turn your feelings around and the two of you could create something good out of your time together.

I went out on dates with my husband every time he asked. I did my part to make it pleasant and enjoyable, though during the first few dates I made some mistakes showing my own anger. Something happened during our counseling with SH wherein I was not in agreement with a particular outing L4TH had planned. After that, he didn't really ask me out on dates too many more times and claimed that I wasn't doing what I was supposed to: spending 15 hours a week on UA. UA time is, so I thought, time where both of us were to get ENs met. I waited. It's not all about unmet needs, though. It's also about lovebusters. And not just angry outbursts. And not just since my affair. If anger was never an issue until after my affair, I would patiently wait those out just a little longer.

I would not agree that he hasn't had an angry outburst within the last 2 months. When I call something an angry outburst, I am told that it's not an angry outburst, it's frustration or hurt. However, the last two months have been better, but then again I haven't been complaining.

As much as I could spend here trying to defend my feelings, it doesn't change them. That is at least one thing I learned over the last year: my feelings are what they are and it's not incumbent on me to change them like I had been trying to do for most of our marriage.

I have done all my counseling. I have done my work. I have implemented EP's, been transparent, and been as open and honest about my thoughts and feelings as L4TH was willing to hear. NG has the story a little wrong: I admitted my affair to my husband, told him the name of the OM's wife, and where she worked without him bullying me to do it. I gave him all the information he needed to expose this to her, to get the facts straight. I offered to take a polygraph. I deleted the email account. I gave him all my passwords to the phone account, the email account that I didn't use for the affair, and he knew ( and still knows) where I was/am at all times, which is mostly work and home. Additionally, I started out our recovery with all that I had to offer and my husband had no complaints. I met his needs better than ever for 2 or 3 weeks (I wasn't able to last longer than that) without asking for anything in return at the time. Now, I'm denigrated because it wasn't real: it was just hyperbonding, I was just priming the pump. It went south when I wanted some of my problems addressed, so they would be put aside for a later date. Then, after a bit, I would try again to meet needs without expectations. Then, it would go south again, same problems put aside for a later date. And each time, I had less and less to offer.

I have done my work and counseling and I'm not going to step into all of this yet one more time. I also will not discuss here all the things that occurred or were said during our counseling just to try to prove I did all I could to save this marriage or to justify my wanting a separation. If he really wants to give this another shot, he can do it from a different place of residence. We counseled with Kim, we counseled on the phone with Dr. Harley for an hour, and we counseled with Steve Harley for more than 15 sessions. If we both believe that we each did all that we could and can do no more, nor differently, than what we have already done, yet are not happy together, what then?

Do you think 2-3 weeks is sufficient time to meet his needs?
I agree that he should be meeting yours as well, but how can he possibly feel loved or desired for 2-3 weeks.

I don't agree with the AO's, but I can see his frustration if you could only last 2-3 weeks.

The affair you had will ring through his mind for years to come and he will always feel you were willing to give more to the OM than him.
I agree..he must make you feel wanted and desired, however he is reeling in a lot of pain from betrayal.
If he had AO's before the affair (which you state)They will be harder to control after infidelity is introduced to the marriage.

LifetimeLearner,

Sorry to see that you're waiting on D papers. Would you like to share?

Thank you, BrainHurts, for asking. Right now, the complaint is in and then there's a 30 day wait for the decree to be read in. The attorney said there's a 50/50 chance that we'll have to appear before the judge. Some here have stated that I am taking the easy way out, but I don't feel that it's easy.