MSS, try to remind yourself that you are very early in recovery. It will take years not months to recover. I hope your FWW is not excpecting you to heal in such short time. Is she aware that recovery after infidelity will take minimally 2 years and most probably more years?

I think it is totally normal to let your FWW know when you are in pain. It can be done without love busters.

Destroy as much triggers as you can. "Money connection" to OM is not healthy. I really hope that you can leave that behind as soon as you can.

Mike;

One of the greatest services that you can do for yourself at this time is to take even the concept of "forgiveness" and toss it out the window.

It's to be earned, not given, and dwelling on it will be like dragging a stone through recovery.

Trust me, forget about it for now.

Im having difficulties with her complete disregard for me as a human being let alone her husband during this afffair. She allowed him into our home vitually weekly with his family. She wore an expensive diamond bracelot all the time that he gave her. And just didn't seem to give a darn about it. NOW she does. Funny how that happened.

Mike,

I think thats nail on the head time, as a BW I too have difficulty in working out how he could be a loving H, telling me regularly how he loved me, and yet still rutting with his own particular B****H for so long.

Did it never occur to him how I might have felt, that what he was doing was wrong.....well yes it did and he was, certainly for the last 2 years of it, miserable and stressed. He wanted out but felt stuck

Weak willed F**k wit.

Scared of reactions from her and me, scared of implications and scared of what next.

So he kept on keeping on with his stupid double life and all the misery that brought.

I think your WW and my WH could compare many notes, I don't think he was happy. although we have talked, he finds talking about his feelings hard, but he seems happier and more relaxed these days.

I on the other hand feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop, when she does/if she does contact him, will he be strong enough to tell her where to go or will he respond to her Damsel in Distress.

As a result I don't feel as though I can relax as I need to be ready to walk if he can't be strong.

Tis a tough path you and I chose when we chose to stay. Know you still have a get out of jail free card!

It's typical WW behaviour. In my case, I gave my FWW a new wedding ring to replace one that was lost. We went through the blessing ceremony and everything. I thought it was a great experience for us. Turns out it was a great experience only for me, as less than a week later she was hopping into bed with the OM for the first time. And she chose our bed for the occasion too.

It's going to be difficult NOT to feel bitter about things like this. What you should do, if you want to avoid this bitterness from taking over your life, is concentrate on filling your M NOW with great experiences. My FWW and I went on an extended vacation overseas several months after D-Day. It helped a lot. It's a pity that we didn't keep up the effort though.

I have said this a lot because its true, my wife is devastated by her actions and the resulting mood swings and depression Im living with. She has all the patience in the world to make me better and not be so bitter towards her that I can be at times. Ive told her that many of you have indicated that recovery or at least the images that run thru my head may subside over 2-3 years. I asked her if she;d be able to handle that. She said for the first time this weekend she will accept and deserves anything that comes from this. I took this to me mean she is prepared for me to leave her or for me to move forward WITH her. She said its up to me. She wants me to stay and has done exactly what the program requires or suggests she does. Almost to the letter of the program.

With regards to the money OM owes us. (not just FWW, but US.) Im getting all of it. I will not let him screw her again by letting him off the hook, this is not an option. My wife has nothing to do with its collection.

She knows my pain even now 8 weeks later. I basically ruined the entire July 4th weekend for her and the kids by looking to sleep all day. Not sure why I was so tired, but my depression may have somehting to do wit it. When she asked me about my mood, I should have smiled and said just had a headache, but I took the opportunity to rub some salt in her wounds. I told her about the 3 BIG ISSUES Im facing on a daily basis: 1) the compete lack of respect/interest/feelings for me for all these years while bringing OM into my house almost weekly and getting me and our kids invested in that family while she's off the next days with him as his girlfriend (and you can add the fact she wore his very expensive diamond bracelot like she was his possession even at my dinner table), 2) being sexually active with another man for many, many years and the complete lack of remores and the resulting virtual video images of them in my head all day(see #3), and 3) only through a fluke did dday happen and if it didnt September is right around the corner and thats when her summer job ends and she'd be back in his bed.

So, again, Im not very far from dday in my progression or as you all have said Im 2-3 years from being able to not thing about this all day.

1) the compete lack of respect/interest/feelings for me for all these years while bringing OM into my house almost weekly and getting me and our kids invested in that family while she's off the next days with him as his girlfriend (and you can add the fact she wore his very expensive diamond bracelot like she was his possession even at my dinner table), 2) being sexually active with another man for many, many years and the complete lack of remores and the resulting virtual video images of them in my head all day(see #3), and 3) only through a fluke did dday happen and if it didnt September is right around the corner and thats when her summer job ends and she'd be back in his bed.

Okay, are you sure that's it? Absolutely, positively sure? No more issues after NG's magic helps your FWW take care of these, right? Okay, cover your eyes, this one is very powerful!

Ok, it's done. FWW will never again treat you and your marriage disrespectfully, engaging in sexual activity with another man, and will promise to do everything she can to comfort you and make reparations for your pain.

THAT IS ALL SHE CAN DO, MSS, AND SHE DID IT WEEKS AGO!

Right now one person is actively damaging your marriage's chances for a better future. It's not FWW, it's not POSOM. It is you, amigo.

No one said that recovery on the part of a BH is easy. On the contrary, it is hard work. That point was made to you probably back on week one. At that time, it was also pointed out to you that ONCE YOU MAKE THE CHOICE - leave or work - you do NOT get to review and re-make the choice every time the wind changes direction.

You haven't yet stepped up to doing the hard work that is necessary. That hard work includes mentally halting your thoughts when they drift to self-pity. That work includes expending the effort to look toward your future when you want to grovel in the past. That effort certainly includes getting your pathetic a$$ out of bed and enjoying a holiday with your family. (You will NEVER have a repeat opportunity to celebrate Independence Day 2011!)

When we here agreed to help and support you through the process, there was an implied agreement that as much as we would help, you would have to do the WORK. When do you plan to start?

Again, NG, foot firmly placed on my behind. Well taken. And I wont copy you on the email I just my wife, which I basically apogized for ruining the weekend, subtle implications of my future (here or elsewhere), and general moving backwards of this recovery.

And, as you perfectly stated and I have stated to the FWW on nearly occasion, she done and continues to do what she needs to do get this on track. IM the flake who blows in the wind and "changes my direction" on every change.

Restarting our recovery (or kickstarting) today, Im going to run a iced coffee over to her at her job unannounced. Huh? Good? Not roses and champaign, but a little token of my regret for killing the weekend.

Thanks NG. You are too good at this!

...foot firmly placed on my behind. Well taken.

Pardner, as many times as you want to be #15 in red,
I'll stand ready to be #17 in blue!



No one here will give up on you and your situation, if you don't give up on yourself!

She works outside in the summer and the iced coffee surprise worked great.

Mike,

You have to reign this in. Just as her apologies for adultery do nothing for you, an accumulation of Love Busters over time using her adultery as justification will start to have apologies fall flat.


Obviously, you don't feel good doing it. I know I didn't.

The solution is to be H&O with your wife before you explode; "I am having a bad day, can we get away for a little while?"

Continue stuffing it, and this cycle will continue.

Im working on all aspects of this. I just wanted to vent a little of my thoughts and waited for her to ask. I kept it at a mellow tone and still did some damage. It simply repeating what Ive said before and what really didnt need repeating, it was a chance for me to puff my chest and say Im not always going to be the victim. My outlining of the issues yesterday was stupid, selfish, and made no sense which ironically is how I characterize her A.

We both agreed we are apologizing too much and for the same things which as you said will ring hollow soon.

Well, you are progressing quicker than I did, dude.

I was 6 months in before I went searching and stumbled on MB, and it was another 2-3 months before I started posting on the forum.

Logged in so throwing a "kudos" ball to you both (MSS and HHH).

I found the forum about 2 weeks after dday. I stopped seeing a psychologist after 2 visits as I felt I got all the help I need from here. Some think I should still be seeing someone, but I get to speak on here 24 hrs a day and get all the help I need. When I fail, I have a half dozen or more people who pick me up or kick me in the butt. The fact my FWW is completely remorseful and regretful, hates the OM with fury, and has begged me for forgiveness has made this a little easier to move through the process. But, yes, I agree Im a very lucky guy not to have to deal with much of what many of BS face. I will get thru the mental image volleys and learn to accept who Im married to is not the perfect being I once thought she was and we will be fine going forward. I am getting more honesty from my FWW as she understands its what I need from her. Her best friend since college said it best, on May 8th my FWW finally grew up. And the adult Im married to now is really someone I like. Im lucky as I said.

Mike,

The plain and simple fact is that we have been handed a total life-altering injury.

NOTHING is going to change that. Even the happiest divorcee knows that twinge of regret. The most thankful divorced victim of infidelity, who has moved on to a new, wonderful marriage will still feel that sting.

We've been stripped of innocence.


It is paramount that we learn to live with our new condition, and not allow it to stop us from being the best father, husband, friend, and lover that we can be.

We are innocence amputees, and there is no prosthetic replacement.

Strengthen the other aspects of yourself to compensate for that injury.

The plain and simple fact is that we have been handed a total life-altering injury...We've been stripped of innocence...We are innocence amputees, and there is no prosthetic replacement.

Trip, I'll admit to being impressed by your imagery. But, not having been "innocent" for many years before d-night, I would substitute "respect" for "innocence". Additionally, I think you missed giving one warning that you and I have learned, that I'd want MSS to hear straight up:

Having suffered that unjustified "respect-ectomy" the one path that cannot be followed to restore one's self-respect is to perform the same unnecessary surgery on another party. It's not enough to remember that "big boys don't cry"; It's equally vital to know that "big boys don't make others cry".

Thanks guys, the last two posts were strong. I know I have a long way to go, in fact, we have our whole lives to go, but I am looking to strengthen the other parts of my emotions that she didnt destroy as HHH suggested. Yes, respect and innocence are gone and will take a long while to regain at the least something resembling respect in our marriage.

Staying out of my periodic "funks" is crucial. It leads to everyone (including my still innocent kids) being miserable. It opens the mental video room where I see things I hate and it leads to contempt (the killer of recovery). It makes the FWW shut down emotionally to me as she doesnt know what to do to make me happy.

I have to be a man. Its sexist but its true. I have children who depend on a man not some cowering worm looking to be held all the time. My wife needs someone to get passed her shortcomings and mistakes and see them for what they are today: regrettable. A man with confidence in who he is would be doing all this.

And NG-you killed weeks back when I suggested I go look for my own side action to get back at FWW for hers. I was much younger then and certainly no where close to being on the program. I even suggested it to OMW on dday in a moment of stupidity. "Lets even this thing up, lets start our own long term thing, and whats even better, we dont have to hide it, we can walk in the door and say what we just did." Moronic, juvenile, and remarkably short sighted. Which, NG, you said about the same then. I even brought up the subject to my wife early on when I was an AO'ing fool, and since she was in full-on keeping me aboard the ship mode and I was flinging poop around, she said I can do whatever will make me love her again even its another woman. Again, post SAA and HN,HN, to even relay this ridiculous moment in time is embarassing.

I have told FWW on 100 occasions, I only want her. Unless of course, Charlize Theron and I somehow hook up. She said she'd take her chances.

One thing that occurred to me... That in the marriage, there are little signals along the way... Ones that we miss. ones that signify our WS's drift from fidelity... They are seen in the little aggravations of daily life (coffee with no creamer, spouse late because of work and you had something you were supposed to get done, etc...). Little unhappinesses that in retrospect don't matter (I never died because we had powdered creamer or W forgot a pack of smokes when she was at the store).

Little orange flags if you will... not quite red ones, but serious enough to warrant attention to.

Ones that over time if left unchecked can cause respect top begin fading in the marriage before an A.

What am I saying? That often times (not always) respect diminishes long before the affair starts... On both sides. That idea of sin begets more sin. It snowballs... Affairs often wake us up to those realities and those of us who "get it" protect ourselves and our spouses from it happening again.

So while affairs can damage and even destroy respect in marriages, it doesn't have to. A spouse can never take your self- respect unless you let them. A spouse can only disrespect themselves and their commitment.


Innocence? well that innocence that was there initially at the wedding for some of us is certainly lost forever. The innocent thought that our spouse or ourselves could never be like this. The innocence that comes from an undefiled marriage.

But grace makes beauty out of ugly things... And we as BS' have the power to extend grace.

The dispute over the money owed by OM to my FWW is coming to a boil now. We have a difference of opinion as to what the amount is and its significant. He is adamant that my FWW and I agreed to one amount as he explained it to us on at least a few occasions over the years. Which, frankly, as a somewhat convoluted method he used really went over my head each time and I certainly wasnt thinking he was in an A with my wife, I just expected a certain amount to be there if the original investment died. Which it did. So here we are with tomorrow being the first good faith payment my bro in law is picking up. However, OM wants the amount owed in total confirmed and signed by us. In another way he is treating my wife like the piece of junk he treated her all along. Basically, he was guaranteeing our principal minus any loans we took from him against this money. AND, heres the catch, we also took PROFITS from the holding company in a good year WHICH HE ALWAYS HAS SAID HE IS DEDUCTING FROM WHAT HE OWES US. So, it our principle minus a loan minus OUR profits which didnt come from his pocket and we paid taxes on.

Im not sure why accepted this over the years, makes no sense then nor now. In light of the A, I stand firmly that Im better get the money net of loans. Period.

Anyway, FWW is livid. She's not accepting this. She wont accept half the amount she wants the entire amount principal minus the loan. My brother in law is trying to negotiate this with him its not going to be pretty. I know the rules about NC the OM, but I dont see how she can make her point going thru her brother. I certainly cant get involved because Ill end up in jail. She may need to go to the pick up tomorrow and fight him with her brother. If there was one iota, scintilla (sp?) of thought she even held the slightest of feelings in any other way than severe hatred towards OM, i wouldnt even dream of letting her go. But, were talking money she earned years before meeting him and money we paid taxes on and she not going to sit idly by while he treats her like crap again. She is not permitted to call him or email him at all. And, if I allow it, she will accompany her brother.

Its just amazing that this guy gets years of consort, friendship, and companionship from not only my FWW, but my entire family and he holds (and probably held my wife) in such low regard the entire time. To have us fight over her money is like just additional insult to add to her immense humiliation. Geez, I feel sorry for her.



Ill keep you posted.