I'm posting this here because I didn't see anything between Marriage Builders and Divorce. And I'm trying to think positive...

Well I've royally screwed up. Today is the first day I'm on this website, although I was asked to go on quite a few years ago. This is a great metaphor for why I'm now separated.

A little background, my wife has a history of being sexually abused. This first came to light a few years ago. She's been getting therapy and talking to other survivors and doing her best to heal. She asked me numerous times to talk to other partners of survivors so I could at least understand her when she's having a rough day and not make things worse. For various reasons, I was scared to get too involved and thought that staying emotionally disconnected when it came to these issues would be better than me falling apart. Also, because I didn't understand what she was going through because I didn't do my homework, when she got upset, it usually just led to me yelling back which just made things worse.

On top of that I have my own issues going on. She asked me to get more help than I was getting for my depression, but I didn't Also, the outbursts I had may actually be a part of something larger and she asked me to explore that too, but I didn't. Also, my libido isn't so hot. Which, yes at sometimes, probably actually was good for a survivor but at others times when she wasn't having a rough time, it wasn't. She asked me to get my testosterone checked, but I didn't.

The big fight that was the last straw, came a few weeks ago. She was having a rough day and we had our usual fighting since it was one of those days I just couldn't handle it (which in my defense was less often than not). That evening she got upset when one of the kids called her a [censored]. She slapped her on the arm. There was no mark left and two therapists (hers and mine) have since said it's not considered abuse. I also concur it was a minor slap on the arm. But because of the tension of the day I overreacted and threatened to call the cops if she didn't leave. She grabbed some things for the night and she left. She was only able to get a hold of one person to talk to that night after she left, an old male friend from high school who lives across the country. Well he swooped right in where I screwed up and did what I should have done years ago: showed her true compassion and listened. She quickly developed feelings for him and considers herself to be in a committed relationship with him.

So where are we now, after all this rambling: This was all the kick in the butt I needed to get moving and all the issues I listed earlier, I'm now getting help for. The 1st test for my testosterone did in fact come back low, and I'm going for the follow up next week in which I'll also ask the doctor about my outbursts and the possible need for additional meds. Also, I'm working with my therapist to better show my empathy. Honestly, I really do feel it, I'm just bad at showing it. And there are other things I'm doing as well but you get the idea: I finally am getting help. And she is still talking to this guy who is considering moving across the country for her. However, she's not completely thrilled with him either for various reasons which she has explained to me, but I won't bore you with details. She also says that her feelings for me swing from consideration of giving me a second chance to hate.

So my question, finally, is what's my best plan of action on how to act towards her now with the hope of reconciling. My thoughts are as follows. Please let me know if you think I'm on the right track.
1) Continue on my path to improving myself
2) Keep what I'm doing for #1 to myself - let her see results not me bragging about what I'm doing
3) Don't bring up anymore the possibility of her giving me a second chance - I don't want to seem like I'm pressuring her
4) Hope for the best that the timing of all this works out
5) Wait for her or begin dating - this I'm torn on which is best, I'm assuming waiting for her

And the irony of all this, is some of this is actually making her more angry because she sees the possibility that she won't regain her feelings for me but I'll be all "fixed up" for the next woman to come along.

Sorry to be so lengthy but if it's any indication of how important this is, I think this post is longer than everything I've ever posted in my 20 years of being on the internet.

Hi, I think it might be a good idea to move this post into Surviving An Affair. Click Notify and ask the mods to move it, you should get more experienced help with this sort of problem there.

Good on you for seeking help and seeing the problems that you caused. Best wishes.

bigmess, you are in a big mess alright. Sorry this is happening to you. I would click on "notify" and ask the mods to move this to the Surviving an Affair forum.

It sounds like your wife is gaslighting you and using her "childhood" problems as an excuse to abuse you. Her affair is about as abusive as it gets. And her DEMANDS that you engage in her silly childhood therapy for being sexually abused is also abusive. I can understand why you wouldn't want to be involved in that foolishness. It does nothing to help her current problems and actually harms your marriage.

I would start first by killing her affair. DEMAND that she end her affair NOW. Expose the affair to her family, your children, and to the OM's friends and family. Your wife seems to believe she is ENTITLED to have an affair, and your complicity with that notion only serves to enable her destructive behavior.

Your marriage sorely needs a strong person to lead it out of the ditch, Sir. Your wife is messed up and the situation is being made WORSE by her "therapists." I would first start by killing her affair and then present her with a program of recovery for your marriage. We can help you through all of these steps.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, my friend, there is hope!

This sounds very much like emotional blackmail. So what happens if you DON'T WANT to participate in her silly therapy? Does that make you the bad guy? Because it sounds to me like you are being bullied into participating against your will and if you don't she is somehow entitled to continue her affair? You are being gaslighted, friend.

See, the worst thing you could have done is to agree to participate in her therapy when you didn't WANT TO participate. She wanted to gain at your expense and that is bad for your marriage. But your wife uses your non-compliance as an excuse to have affairs and to abuse YOU. She is a bully.

Well I was hoping to not get this deep into this aspect of this but she's not gaslighting. She has a witness who remained quiet all these years (out of fear) but admitted the abuse when asked if it had indeed occurred. As for me, there were two parts to getting involved in her recovery:

1) Simply understanding that she will have bad days and knowing how to respond
2) Actively participating in hearing what happened to her and being a shoulder to cry on

There's no excuse for me for skipping out on #1. All I needed to do was a little reading to find out I just shouldn't yell back and make things worse. As for #2, the reason I didn't get to actively involved because I was concerned I couldn't emotionally handle it. It wasn't because I didn't want to. I hid because I was scared.

I understand you're trying to help but I couldn't possibly convey the reality of her experiences and I would prefer we not focus on that.

As for the affair continuing, we both consider ourselves separated so I really don't feel I have a direct say in it. I can't explain to you the complicated scenario of my life or fully explain it all here but I do feel this is the best situation for now and my own therapist agrees. Now he has not revealed if that's because that's what's best for my marriage or best for me personally (i.e. let her continue the affair and just move on). The emotions are still too raw for me to really see clearly enough. She's actually been quite honest about her concerns with both me and with the other guy. And as of right now, it really just sounds like he's a good friend that there might be a possibility of chemistry with if they finally meet up in person. She said she's really concerned about crushing his feelings (it's come out that he had a crush on her when they were kids) because she's just not going to feel the magic.

My only hope for me, whether it's repairing my current marriage or just improving for a future significant other, is to work on myself. My wife is actually pretty positive that the testosterone treatment will make a significant improvement and maybe she's right. Maybe it will decrease my gloominess and bring back the romantic in me. I can only wait and see.

Over the past few weeks I am a really different man. I'm not letting a bad day interfere with being happy around the kids. I'm being more proactive in talking to people. Heck, for the first time I even had a conversation with my barber. I've lost 13 pounds in 3 weeks and actually enjoy working out. I guess I passed the "fat guy threshold."

I'm not scared of the future. I don't want her because she's here and comfortable. I want her because I still see us growing old together. Because despite our emotional screw ups, we're an amazing couple together. The one thing this guy has over me is he is apparently more romantic. I would highly doubt it would be possible to be less romantic than I've been the past several years so I'm sure she's right. Plus give me 20 years of pining for someone and I would probably be pretty f-in romantic too. I need to overcome this last obstacle without actually seeming like I'm pressuring her.

I know her well enough to know that insisting the affair be ended at this point would absolutely backfire. And I don't take that personally. I have the same "do the opposite of what someone demands of you" thing.

Are you "dating" someone else yourself? Have you while the two of you have been separated?

When ML says that your wife is gaslighting about the sexual abuse as a child, I don't believe she meant to accuse your wife of lying about it. What is means is that she is trying to distract you from the fact that she is actively engaged in ADULTERY. Separated isn't divorced, and when you "date" someone while you are still married, it's called ADULTERY.

You need to demand your wife end her affair. It is important to your marriage that you do. Do you want to try to save your marriage? If so, listen to the advice of the vets on this site and ACT.

Again, focusing on her childhood is a waste of time that is destroying your marriage and her adulthood. There is no need for an adult to convey the "reality" of her childhood experiences. It does nothing to resolve adult problems. It is a good way to keep therapists in business but does nothing for your wife. Nor is it an excuse for her adultery. Her affair is an abuse OF YOU and there is no excuse.

Dr Harley is a licensed clinical psychologist, and founder of Marriage Builders, and here is what he says about this kind of counseling:



If you have a "therapist" that tells you that having an affair is the "best situation" for your marriage, I would assert he is a quack. If you, her HUSBAND, have "no say" in her affair, then who does since it DIRECTLY IMPACTS YOUR LIFE? Her affair is an assault on you so you absolutely do have a "say" in that.

Having an affair is best for NO ONE at any time. It is not best for you, for your wife or your marriage. Adultery does not make people happy, it makes them depressed and it is destroying your marriage.

Being "separated" is not an excuse for adultery. Are you not living together?

I am sad to say that you are getting some dreadful advice from these counselors and are probably going to end up divorced if you don't try a new strategy. Marriage counselors are destructive to marriage and have an 84% failure rate. They have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. It is clear that your "therapist" has no idea what he is doing either.

BM, but you are the least objective person on this thread. Your best thinking has wrecked your marriage. By not demanding she end her affair, you are giving her the impression that you don't care very much. A man who really cares about his spouse does not sit by complacently while his spouse engages in marriage wrecking, destructive behavior. I would point out that your strategy of complacence is what has backfired on you. You are headed for divorce right now.

Enabling does not save marriages. And complacence does not convey caring, it conveys the opposite. And this is coming from someone who has saved her own marriage. Most of us here who have saved our marriages did so by doing everything in our power to kill the affair. We demanded it end, exposed to affair to everyone and we DID NOT ENABLE THE AFFAIR. You are doing all of those things. And you can see the result. Your tactics are not working, friend.

Please listen to this radio clip where Dr Harley tells a betrayed husband, just like you, that his enabling has destroyed his marriage [this man did nothing just like you and his wife was leaving him for the OM]: here

From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

Take it from one of the best enablers on here!!

5 years I stood by and enabled, oh yes screamed and shouted occasionally but essentially, enabled.

After 6 years, i didn't know about the first year, I stood up and ended it, told everyone and told her H too.

I wish I'd found this earlier, I was so unhappy, but I also worked on myself. I got strong enough and ended it.

So by all means spend the next 5 years in that place.

But you have to move your feet if you want things to change.

Listen to the vets, they aren't always soft and snuggly, but they have been there and seen it.

Your choice