Sweetie ..... this will be pretty brutal for you to read .... so wait until you are feeling strong.... OK?




Now, after this ...




(((( HUGs ))))

Pepperband, you are right. I have not discussed too much of my own behavior. I have been focusing on his b/c his are causing me so much pain.

He is not one to talk about what he doesn't like. He just doesn't/can't. Over time, I have gotten some information about things I do that he doesn't like. Some are obvious, these are the ones he has talked about the most.

I have realized that my M.O. is to close down to protect myself. As I look back, I see that I was closing down to his treatment of me. Which really affected our sex life. I think that is one of the biggest issues for him. He was already doing porn though. I just didn't know it, but I felt his withdrawal, along with the hurtful words I just wasn't open. I was too immature to handle it. I didn't know how, and I really handled it all wrong. I just was not always interested. I didn't make the move anymore. I didn't know this until years later, but I know now as I look back and he has told me that I let my fears get the best of me and made him feel unwanted sexually. I had sex with him. It just wasn't the same. As the years went on, it just got worse.

I tried to get him to talk, he wouldn't. We didn't fight a lot. I am the type that when I get angry, I want to discuss it, work through it, and let it go. He isn't. He is calm, I am hotter and willing to go where I need to go to talk about it. He doesn't like it when I get frustrated and raise my voice. I don't always do it, but it happens often enough. I think I get frustrated b/c there is never any fault on his part, never disclosure and it is never ending. But still, I know it is a problem for him b/c he doesn't like it when I raise my voice or get frustrated.

I have become more negative this last few years than he was ever used to. I have thrown issues in his face when he was criticizing me for something. I just didn't understand how he could criticize me when he was doing the things he was doing? I have shown him a lot of anger and resentment. I haven't treated him with the respect I should have maybe. I respect him as a human being, just not his behavior and choices.

I am pretty easy going, until I am not I guess. I always trusted him. If he wanted to go out with his friends for a weekend golfing trip, GO!! I wanted him to enjoy life. I am not the kind of wife that doesn't let her husband live his life. The problems REALLY came when he violated the trust by hiding his phone, and after I found his secret cell phone. I thought the porn was isolated, but he would never cheat on me. Once I couldn't trust him, I started coming apart. He doesn't like ANY conflict, so he couldn't handle my hurts. I got angrier. At some point it came out.

THen I talked to others. HE REALLY CAN'T FORGIVE ME FOR THIS. This is unacceptable to him. I didn't talk to anyone for 15 years. But, I finally did, and he hates me for it.

Let me think about more. I am out the door to a baseball game. I know that I haven't been perfect. My communication style and closing down and not being open for sex all the time are his main complaints.

And now .... the really big one

Hi Little (NH also)

I am relating to you and am finding great insight into what Pep is saying. NH you and I have been back and forth with each other because I can completely feel your marriage and my marriage mirror in so many ways. I am not surprised we are both finding Little's sitch the same.

Little all I can offer you is what I have been doing in Plan B. When the vets say Plan B is to save you; they know what they are talking about.

I am finding great strength in me. Granted I am still having weak moments, but the stronger moments are coming more now. I lost me for so many years of my marriage. I read Dr. H's giver/taker and realized I gave and gave and gave and I fit the outcome to a tee. I tried to completely save my husband from all his errors.

I learned I was using AO's and DJ's to control him. I wanted him to stop his porn, and he wouldn't so I would try to manipulate the situation with threats to get him to stop. My husband and I had different values. I was trying to control him with DJ's because he just couldn't do things ethically. Today he wants to divorce me because he doesn't want to live by my values (honestly, integrity, character, empathy, basically doing what is right). The red flags were there for years.

Today I can finally see what I needed to do with me to fix this. The hardest part about today is knowing he will need to go out on his own away from his four children. For the first time in his life he will need to fix him on his own.

Granted he may divorce me and find another enabler, or he may not. God only knows about his future. I cannot worry about it or can I have it effect my recovery.

I look at my husband and I can let him go today because he needs to heal himself. He is a very broken man, and I am not good for him today. He must reach bottom on his own and seek recovery on his own.

I decided to go into Plan B to find me. I am actually finding me again and it is wonderful. I have lost a tremendous amount of weight, and my confidence is boosted. I can fix my AO and DJ coping skills, and it is wonderful for my children.

I am actually thanking my husband for this tragedy because if all else fails I am becoming a much better mom. I wish an affair hadn't happened, but I am taking the lemons he gave me and our kids and making some sweet tasting lemonade.

Find you today -- it will likely take years before you are healed. Realize you have so much to offer and you still have six eyeballs that need you to be healthy.

God Bless

Tough~

Tough - what a great post. You've come a long way. Wow.

Thanks Andy - Wishing you well also!

Dang Pepper, what's with the smackdown?!?!?!?! I get what you are saying though. This is where I feel clueless and question my intelligence. I did not know that he did not love me. I didn't realize that he didn't respect me. I started questioning things, but, at first I didn't get it. It was subtle. I didn't know exactly what the problem was. I started guessing that he started believing his parents. It got worse as the years went by. I thought he was a good guy, from a good family who just had a big problem. At some point, I knew he was mad at me for closing down sexually, not really showing interest anymore, and I felt guilty for that.

He is really mean to me. I really don't see it as him having to be a bad boy to give me something to fix. I have never wanted to fix him. I have wanted him to realize what he was doing that was hurting our family, our marriage so badly. I didn't get that he couldn't see it until I learned more about abuse and addiction.

I don't want to be married to an abuser anymore. I finally now see that he hasn't been able to change. I guess I was hoping that I could find out some information here that could possible help me/us as a last ditch effort.

I have lost myself, but I don't see my role in life being bad boy fixer. I never have. It is also a role I DO NOT WANT!! I have met with an attorney. Money is an issue, but only unitl I can find a way.

I wish I had known this informaiton years ago,(Plan A, Plan B, etc..) so I could possibly have done this right and saved our marriage.

Hi Tough!! Thank you for such a wonderful post. I have lost myself too. How do you find YOU again? Go to the gym, take a class, etc.. Right now, I am finding it very difficult to think straight, much less fit more in.

I want to find strength in me. I need it!!!! I used to be very strong. Obviously not as strong as I thought I was, but still, nothing got me down. I think this did b/c I stayed in it. I have never been abused before. I have never picked guys I had to fix. That is not my history.

I identify with the AO's. I try not to be judgmental, but I am sure I was at times.

I remember thinking last summer that we obviously have different moral standards and values. Which seemed weird to me because he grew up in this "perfect" family, and was the kind of guy that when the ATM gave him too much money, he turned back around and took it back to the bank.

You said, "Today, I can finally see what I needed to do with me to fix this." What are those things exactly? How did yoiu come to finally "see" them? What are you doing?

Really, my biggest desire right now is to be the best mom I can be and to find me so my children can get the best of me. Fixing my marriage is not my priority right now. I guess I am wishing that I could find a way to get him to see where our marriage really is, his part in it, forgive me for my part in it, but, I no longer hold on to hope that he will understand. If he does, great. We can cross that bridge if that ever happens and see what comes of it. Until then, my focus is shifting.

I originally posted to gain more insight, get the answers I am getting to better understand, to gain some support, and to help me REALLY get who he is and why he is doing what he is doing, and why I act the way I do, do the things I do, and how I can change.

Plan B - getting away from the wayward. Time has allowed me to see him for what he actually was.

I read denial in your posts. The only thing I can offer is you may want to consider Plan B. Read all about it on this website. I don't have a direct link.

Time away from the wayward's mouth is what has helped me. I am slso at the YMCA everyday swimming for one hour. It is my alone time with God, my thoughts, and myself. I can talk to me for one hour straight while swimming. It is my therapy, and I absolutely love it.

I CANNOT believe I missed this one. I wish I had read this one before I read and responded to your next one, which I referred to as a smackdown!! This was too!! After responding to that one and thinking about it, then reading this one, I think I am beginning to understand what you are saying about fixing him. I just didn't see it that way. I thought I was supposed to love him through sickness and in health. I really didn't see it as abuse. I am a nieve and trusting person, and obviously dense.

All these years, I haven't felt virtuous. I have felt more like a failure than anything else. I didn't look at the way I have responded and putting up with it as a sickness, but as something I had to do to try to hold the marriage together.

All that about him being judged, critized and holes is new information for me within the last couple of years because that is what my therapist has taught me. It isn't someting that I had a clue about. I always wondered why he did these things. I now see that whatever his problems and issues are, he didn't/doesn't have the right to treat me the way he has. I now can see it as his issues.

My friend taught me the three C's. Thank you for reminding me. I think of them often. I NOW know that I didn't cause his issues. I may have thought I could help, but now I KNOW I can't cure him. It is the hardest thing to give up.

I never thought of being an admirable woman. I was just doing what I thought I needed to do. I didn't want to give up on our marriage. I now see that he is not capable of being who he pretended to be and promised me he would be (even before we married.) I am not who I know I was meant to be either.

I am MOST CERTAINLY and enabler! DANG!! I hate it!!! I am really getting that this last few months. He has never really had to suffer the consequences of his choices and behaviors.

It is funny that you say I am forgiving him while he is still hurting me. That is exactly what I said to him a few days ago.

I am looking into Al-Anon. That is the only thing here. I am reading a lot too. Looks like I have a lot more to read after coming to MB!!

Thank you for spending your time with me. I really need yours and everyone's help and advice. I need it to break free of my bad habits, mindset and fog.

I will read them and get back to you. Thank you!!

There is a website called VerbalAbuse with a discussion forum similar to this one which helps to explain some of the techniques used to maintain control of the other person.

There is also a book of the same name by Patricia Evans available from Amazon.I found both helpful in explaining the reasons for the incomprehensible behaviour.

GOOD LUCK

myopia2000, thank you for the VerbalAbuse information. I have a lot of reading to do!!!!! Any particular thread that you have in mind on that forum?

{{{{{Littlebit3}}}}}

Just want to say I am reading along and can relate very well to the journey you are on. I don't post alot during the summer since it is extremely busy with work.

Pep has challenged me along my journey to dig deep into myself and question

WTF am I doing.

She carries one of the biggest 2 X 4's I have ever seen swung but uses it for wake up calls. Its done with tough love.

For myself I have needed that along the way.

As you can see I have been here for a few years and have found a combination of useful tools that helped me along the way. Not all of it was MB's so I don't want to muddy up your thread since you are getting great advice so far.

Please consider the suggestion of Al-Anon meetings. Just try 6 meetings at the same group and see if it is a fit. In Real Life we need a support group (or more)around us.

Edited to add:

You see, sometimes Recovery here does not always mean Marital Recovery. Sometimes it is Personal recovery.

Just wanted you to know you are not alone.

nESRE

Littlebit3:
As you can tell from my signature line I have a history of verbal abuse. Maybe not so much as many others but certainly enough to have severely hurt a very gentle wife whom I knew was too gentle (at least at one time) for the wolves. I want to second the suggestion to read Patricia Evans....
It is the bible of reforming verbal abusers... sometimes I think she wrote more for us than for victims. I can share one thing from my reform that you need to know....
I am a member of a group known as MEVAC (you can just google that) it stands for Men Ending Verbal Abuse and Control. We have a survey (available to male members only)...
100% of the Reforming members got there because their wife gave them the wakeup call one way or another - I have to conclude that Patricia Evans is correct in that verbal abusers think backwardly (they actually believe that doing what they do will get them what they want when in reality they get the exact opposite!). So... in short I conclude that - unless and until their wife either files, leaves or similar... they don't even understand that what they are doing is wrong. When you read Patricia Evans she will explain why.
My group MEVAC is somewhat sponsored by Patricia Evans. It should have half a million members and be growing by that much every three months... but there are less than 200 members. BUT.. those who do join - have an excellent chance of changing their behavior.
I simply write about this facet of what you have been going through so that you see that there is a small ray of hope for changes in you spouse.
One more thought... Verbablly Abusive and Controlling men usually learn the backward thinking from controlling parents. You have clearly already witnessed this.
SOOOO... don't you just read Patricia Evans. Make a copy available for your husband and tell him about MEVAC when and if you do lower the boom on the advice of the vets here.
Just remember Littlebit3, you don't deserve this and it is not your fault.
Sadly in my case, the lowering of the boom on me was learning of my wife's affair(s). Very Ironic.
New that I have reformed (and I will always be reforming) from Verbal Abuse and Control...
I find myself trying to further apply what I learned here.
I guess I am writing as much about myself as for you, but maybe there is some insight here that my tragedy can help you with.
Blessings,

Hurting Turkey,
Me BS 56
She WW 50
Hers 18, 22
Mine 22, 28, 30
Ours DS 11
D-Day 1 - April 26 2009
D-Dapy 2 - October 15 2009
Exposed February 22, 2010
Me: Reforming Verbal Abuser
She: still won't divulge OM # 2 despite overwhelming evidence

Hi everyone. It has been a while since I have been on. I have been thinking a lot about what you all have written to me. Is this all the advice you can give me? I keep reading on other threads to do what the vets say. I don't know what to do or how to do it. Are there some vets out there that can spell it out for me? Sorry if I am dense. This is just very difficult.

Thannk you nesre. I need someone to help me dig deep inside myself too to question things, to figure things out, to figure out who I AM and what I want now.

Pepperband gave me a pretty good smackdown a couple of weeks ago, and she was right about almost everything, but then what? It didn't help me figure things out. I think I am just in such denial I can't move.

What are the useful tools you have used?

I do need support. I plan on going to the Al-Anon meetings.

It is now about personal recovery for me. I am just in such a bad place that I don't know what to do. Nothing feels right.

Thank you for being there for me. I don't want to be alone. I need help.

L3

I am in the middle of some things right at the moment.
I will try to get back to you withing the hour
nESRE

I originally posted to gain more insight, get the answers I am getting to better understand, to gain some support, and to help me REALLY get who he is and why he is doing what he is doing, and why I act the way I do, do the things I do, and how I can change.


I read this a couple of pages back and it struck me how far you have come..........you arrived looking to find a way to turn yourself in even more knots to please an abuser......and discovered it's OK not to be abused.

The people on this forum are worth listening to, keep growing hun.

You have to be a strong woman for dealing with this situation for years, you need to carry on being strong now to stop it. So listen to the vets, get or keep healthy, eat well, sleep, exercise, do some nice things for you, journal, vent here but listen.

I wish I had found this site years ago too, but it will give you the toughs to hang on in there.

You are better than this

Make a start by attending an Al-Anon meeting. For almost a year I sat there pretty quiet as these people were talking as if they knew exactly what my life was about.

We cannot get better when we live in a vacuum. The whole world surrounding an addictions life is they are much like a vacuum and some how they keep sucking us back into the sickness. We have to break away from what keeps sucking us in. The repeated sickpatterns. I am not saying desert your job, family, or such. Get out and let TRUSTED people know what the situation is.

When you start doing that other opportunities will start to present themself and you will feel better about a good life you have created. You quit focusing on the sick one and treat yourself better. Should your sick one want help you will be in a better position to help or have resources available you never knew of.

MB's Plan B also helps. During a time of seperation you can use that time to really work on yourself. DO NOT Plan A an active addict who is abusing you. It will only reward their bad behavior. With active addicts tough love and firm boundaries need to be in place.

Keep coming back with questions. This community is a combined effert of many who have been there done that. The main focus is MB's principles. This is a bit off the beaten path.

By seeing both sides of A's (waywards/betrayeds)from people trying to get healthy new ideas will open up to you. Some of those ideas you may try. Many others will tell you their experiences as you share here and you will recognize they have been there done that. Recovered addicts of all types. You will begin to get out of the sucking action of the vacuum.

She asked you this rght away. Don't know we saw an answer. Maybe I missed it.



You are here not your H. Our focus is on what are you going to do to change the cicumstances of YOUR PRESENT LIFE so you can have a better life soon.

Hope this helps

nESRE