After 2 years of hell, and a 9 month separation, my husband is finally willing to end his affair and wants to come home. (I planned to file divorce papers this week - finally had it). He has agreed to end the affair for good, cut off all contact, turn off the cell phone, etc. The other woman lives in another state, so avoiding actual physical contact is easier. I've said I would do it all along - follow Dr. Harley's steps to survive the affair and rebuild the marriage when the affair ended. There's one catch - he said he is not willing to dispose of all mementos of the affair as I requested - pictures, cards, trinkets, etc. He admits he still has feelings for the other woman, but sees all the pain and misery in his own life and his family's and is willing to try. He doesn't want to destroy all memories. He said he will lock them up in a safe deposit box, where we both have to sign to retrieve them. What is this? He says I control everything. Is this him trying to prove he has control over something? Is it reasonable for me to expect him to get rid of everything? Having it in the house, or car - anywhere he would see it every day or where the kids could find it is absolutely out. But a safe deposit box? Do I cave on this? Am I making "unreasonable demands" insisting he get rid of everything before coming home, if he's willing to do everything else? Do I let him keep these trinkets? Hope he decides to get rid of them later on, when there's been some healing? Or are they a time bomb waiting to happen, an indicator that he is not letting her go and will go running back to her? Do I end the marriage over it? He seems unwilling to bend on this issue.

Wow. I'd have an accident on the way to the safety deposit box with the "box o trinkets". They would die a very nasty trinket death if it were me.

If he is mentally holding on to these memories, these tangible memories, then he is still an active wayward.

He has not committed to 100 percent NC and is imho, probably wanting to find a way to carry this affair further underground. Unless he is willing to have EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS in place (one of which is getting rid of the skankho crap), then he is no way in a place where he is to begin recovery.

He's like a drunk who wants to carry around an empty bottle of Crown Royal in that velvet bag around with him. A memory of his addiction. Sooner or later, that bottle will get full again or he'll get another. Or maybe it's like a woman addict who takes a rock of crack to a jeweler and has him set it in a gold and glass vial pendant for her necklace so she can peer at it every day, thinking of how good that crack rock felt. See?

This addicted wayward man is in NO WAY OR POSITION to try to negotiate to you what he will do right now. In fact, he should be damn glad you're even willing to possibly consider to even take him back, in the case he's willing to do that hard work for a full recovery of your marriage.

My initial response was "no"; he needs to get rid of everything connected to the affair. He admits that he is still emotionally connected with her. He has yet to go through the withdrawl phase, which isn't going to be fun for either one of you.

If it's a deal breaker, you have to consider how badly you want the marriage. Ultimately you have to make the decision of what you can live with. It ain't easy, sister!

Him keeping the "skank relics" are NOT in any way going to help with a full recovery. Most likely it is a signal he is still wishing to remain wayward, just trying to hide it further.

When you are in recovery, the wayward COMMITS TO NC FOR LIFE. That means triggers, or THINGS that would cause the former wayward to go back, if even for a moment, into the wayward mentality and emotions. It's no different than a wayward constantly saying it's ok to look at their x affair skanks' facebook page over and over and over ad nauseum.

rainy - no man who loved you, and wanted to build a life with you, would ever dream of keeping reminders of some trashy ho who invaded your family and brought you nothing but grief.

I'm not pretending he's all in love with me and chomping at the bit to fix this. We've been married 21 years, have 4 children who are in various stages of falling apart over this. Is being willing to try, and being honest (HUGE for him) a starting point? Before, he would have lied. He would have told me he felt great about it when he didn't, never would have been honest about keeping things. He would have just hid them somewhere and told me he threw them away.

Isn't that the whole point of the "Surviving an Affair" book? That you can hit rock bottom and start from scratch? There might be hope if you do the steps? Doesn't sound like most affairs end the right way, with the cheating spouse being all gung-ho to set it all right. It takes awhile. So, is it worth trying? Or doomed from the start? Do I insist he get rid of everything? Or compromise on locking it away for now while we both see where this can go?

rainysweet, I would make it a CONDITION that he dispose of all mementos in order to come back. That has to be a condition because these are things that cause you pain and keep him TRIGGERED. This trash has no future in your marriage so it needs to go NOW.

Make sure you are setting up the CONDITIONS that are favorable to recovery otherwise you will be facing a false recovery. The stuff needs to be BURNED.

Interesting way to end that. 'while we both see where this can go'. How about putting 100% into it from both of you, and TAKE THIS WHERE IT BELONGS. You know, a happy ROMANTIC MARRIAGE?

You are debating letting him keep this crap? And what happens when he wants to go 'vist' the OW's junk? You have to go sign for it too? Square -50. Forget square one, you'll be working just to reach sq one.

This line caught my eye

Are you controlling? Not that it matters, as POJA will take care of what the EN/LB and rest leave behind.

As for him proving he has control over something, um, he has full control over HIMSELF. No one can CONTROL him, he ownes his own choices, including whether he is willing to accept ALL OF YOUR EXTRAORDINARY PERCAUCTIONS!!! And I hope they are whoppers. He has to prove himself to YOU. Were you in Plan B? What were your returning EP's?

control. right. He doesn't want to lose them when he gets back with her, if he ever 'leaves'.

Good luck on that one.

What Mel says is right, if you do not get rid of EVERYTHING about OW you will risk a false recovery and I am telling you from direct experience that you do not want that.
Affairs are insidious and they are not over till they have ran themselves to the ground. Meaning when the 2 AP really cannot stand eachother any longer. In that case no chance that your WH would want to keep anything from OW.
Till he does, I would be highly suspicious and would not take him back,
How do you know he reached rock bottom?
Blessing

Rainy,

ITA with everyone. The cute little gifts and reminders of their little fantasy world together must go.

Set your conditions that you require in order to work on the marriage. If he does not agree with any of them, I would go ahead and file the D papers. He is not committed.

I'm sorry you are here.

Dont' compromise the future of your marriage. And I would not allow him to come back to "see where this can go." I would only allow him to come back if he fully commits to do the things neccessary to recover your marriage. Otherwise you are wasting your time and volunteering for a death of a thousand cuts. That path will lead you to divorce, but it will be the long, slow, bloody path.

I would not take any chances here. False recoveries are worse than the initial D-Day. We have board members who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder from being subjected to a FR.

That trash will you both triggered so it is an extraordinary precaution for him to get rid of all of it. And EP's are NOT negotiable.

Yep, it was so for me....7 years of agony. And I am still in shock. If it will ever go away. I still re-live the situation in my head over and over again. It is better, but definitely I inflicted it upon myself because I did not listen.
I trusted him when in reality I should have not.
So trust in this case will not take you far at all.
Put the bar very very high and if he can't jump, make him run in the opposite direction from you...
Blessing

think of it antoher way. Say five years down the line, you are both feeling good about your marriage, and to celebrate, you decide to throw this stuff away.

Guess where you will land.

Even in an ordinary marital situation, its not POJA for him to do something so disrespectful of your feelings - or are you enthusiastic about these relics!

As a wayward he should be even more careful about your wounded heart. If he isnt, hes just working up to wound it again.

You are clearly a warm, wonderful person. Demand the basic respect for that. It isnt selfish when its to heal the two of you.

Slight role reversal here, if it was you that had the A would he allow you and be happy for you to keep the trinkets from your A???

I made my H burn the clothes and even boxers he wore on his dates with the OW so I'm definitely not going to condone your h keeping his skanks memorabilia. The notion is insane.

Here is a quote from Dr Harley that I use OFTEN because it is so well stated:

As a FWW I can tell you without a doubt you should not let him keep any momentos. The whole point of no contact is no contact! Just knowing the stuff is there keeps it in his mind and heart, which are the very places that need to be transparent. And who's to say that some of those "trinkets" won't find their way into your home rather than the safety deposit box? Nope, either OW is totally gone or she is still with you. There is no "in between."

Rainy, this is tantamount to one-sided contact = WH will not get over the OW = NO RECOVERY!

Please listen to us. The worst thing you could do is let an active wayward continue hits off the crackpipe. Any contact AT ALL...and he will not defog and you will be in a false recovery. It is really that simple.

I would not argue with him. I would write out what you will require from him in order to work on the M (BTW ~ please tell us what these are) on a piece of paper, give it to him and tell him he has a decision to make.

BINGO! I agree with Susie's post. Write out what you need to recover and he can decide to take it or leave it. Put the onus on him. Otherwise you won't recover. Extraordinary precautions are not negotiable. Set him down and explain that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to settle for less and won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. absolute no contact whether it be via email, facebook, momentos, etc [all momentos have to be detroyed]

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about the affair<s> � passing a polygraph if necessary

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage


Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive life of hell.

I have said this before, so here it is in a question form.

Ask him this:


You want to see where this will go, and I understand that position. What I do not understand is your desire to keep mementos of your affair partner. Here is something I will ask you to consider before I will agree to have you keep them.

If you keep the mementos, then you must agree to have photographs of your affair partner in EVERY ROOM of our home. You will have photos, each at least 2 feet by 4 feet in size installed in each and every room of our home, including the bathroom, before you can return home. This will be a condition of your return to the household. Will you agree to that? Because, my thoughts are that if you "need" mementos, you are NOT over your affair, and I would firmly believe that since you are insisting on bringing the other woman into the marriage with you, then

BRING HER IN - COMPLETELY, INTO EVERY COTTON PICKING ROOM IN THE HOUSE.

Until you agree to either post her photo or get rid of the mementos all together, I would say you are not over the affair, and not ready to give the marriage a complete and full attempt.



Then, tell him that his only alternative for "preservation" of his trinkets is to send them in a box to the other woman, and be DONE WITH THEM FOREVER, and be committed to the marriage, FOREVER.


His choice.


SB