Im not proud today. Im not crowing over here today. Im doing my best in what is the worst crisis I hope I ever have to face. Ive made mistakes, sure. Ive said wrong things to my wife and written things here I probably shoudnt have.

I in no way wish to OMW friend. We are bound by something Im workin hard to move passed. I pretty confident I have my WW on board with me and its taking every bit of my attention. I cannot and have zero desire to referee their marriage. The advice I got and what I gave her in our last conversation was to seek the truth, ALL THE TRUTH.

If you think its up to me to tell her that her husband is still living in lies otherwise Im sickening you, then, youre right, Im sick about it too.

I do see the irony in "seeking the truth" considering again my WW and OM are participating in a lie, but with me in cahoots against his wife. Its not lost on me.

So I get to now live with dirt on my hands.

The name of my thread says it all. Im now no better than WW and OM, arent I?

Sorry, Im very ashamed of myself. Ive tried to be true and faithful and live a certain way and, geez, when i got of the trail I was put back on, but Im hanging onto the fact that none of these A are the same and are handled perfectly with the participants riding off with the BS in the sunset. Sometimes we have to do what we have to do. Thats all.

Your title is "DECEPTION "


Do you see the irony here? Everytime you tell that made up story instead of the truth? You are now pulled into deceptions also.

I could not live like that. It will come out one day and you will have to answer everyone you lied to including your grown children that come to you one day asking how they can save there marriage from an affair.

Just food for thought.


Edit: Ok, you were typing at the same time I was. So you see this......
Question is what are you going to do? Live like this the rest of your life or get the truth out so you can live in peace

LD-

We clicked submit at the same time.

Yes, again, I didnt ask nor did my kids ask for their mother to do what she did. She did ask and we ALL chose to forgive her. We told everyone we felt we needed to about the A. We spoke to our children in as plain terms as possible about what happened.

We have life outside OM with non-mutual friends who know OM and family but are not friends. THESE are those we are not telling details of the A. Its a further humiliation for WW and me and we are opting to live without.

The only thing that helps us here is OM and family and my family are not part of big circle of friends which would have been a difficult thing to keep this quiet. They live in a separate community and frankly do not intersect with anyone we are close to here in our town.

Our children are not the same age so thats not a factor.

In hindsight, we were truly their only friends as far as i could tell. OMW has difficulty interacting with women her age so she really has no friends. OM was fixated, in hindsight, on my wife mostly.

Its only a couple of friends who have asked about them and we'll have to live what I think is unavoidable lie. I dont want these people thinking any differently about my wife and her mistake.

Count me in in agreeing with most everything Mike has done, and the need for some posters to lay off.

First, choosing not to tell every mutual aquaintence about what happened is NOT living a lie! The purpose of exposure it to break up the affair. Mike did expose to the important people and the affair is crushed. There is no need for further exposure to people whose no business it is. Just simply tell them that you don't associate with POSOM anymore for reasons you won't go into and leave it at that.

Secondly, Mike did expose to OMW. There is no need for further contact or to give her every detail of every dealing with OM.

Third, letting his wife meet with OM was a calculated risk. But, it was done in a very controlled environment for very good reasons. When Dr. Harley talks about NC for life, he's talking about notes or calls just to see how the AP is doing, he's talking about unplanned encounters at the workplace or neighborhood. I think there should be some leeway in this instance.

I think you've done very well, Mike, and wish you all the best on your road to recovery.

Thanks, Schtoop. Ive taken some heat here over the last 24 hours for some actions Ive taken. But as my sole source of therapy, I tell the truth so I have to take whatever is kicked back.

I do appreciate someone seeing things from my perspective.

mss

I can't understand why OMW should not know every single time contact is made. I thought that was the whole point of establishing contact with OPS.


It's easy to leeway yourself right into severe marital problems.

I'm pretty sure when Dr. Harley talks about NC for life, he makes zero exceptions. He insists that no contact be made even to inform the OP of no contact. He strongly urges that jobs be left immediately or as soon as practicable and legal. And he makes no bones about the fact that contact = triggering = starting recovery over. In rare instances where some form of communication with a former affair partner is required, I've heard him say the communication should be done by the betrayed spouse or an intermediary and the formerly wayward spouse should not participate.

You don't have to do everything the way it is specified here.

But I wonder why are you so concerned about "heat" from strangers on the Internet. Why does it matter to you strongly that we all agree with your actions? Why do you feel the need to find some exception who will see things from your perspective in the face of many people telling you that this was a mistake? Are you seeking out helpful advice, or just looking to be told what you want to hear?

These are rhetorical questions; don't answer me; answer for yourself.

CV-

There's not much confusion in my FWW. Theres a clarity I have not seen in her ever. She let this man used her weaknesses for years to his advantage and she has little to show for it. Its demoralization on top of demoralization.

I did my best to explain why I sent her to this meeting. I knew emotions would be stirred and they were. Im building a trust in her that has only strengthened over 2 months. With this trust and her anger over this bit of money, I felt she best could fight for it.

Did it rekindle something? This man paid my wife to watch his kid and demanded oral sex on a virtual regular schedule. He'd hold out weekly payments so she'd have to ask for it so he could pressure her for this sex. He taped her multiple times doing this act. He taped another girl he was 2 timing my wife with. She would invite friends over to watch the baby and would pick them up on way there so she wouldnt be alone with him as much as possible. On other days she'd get the baby dressed and ran out of the house to avoid him. She'd complain to him that this pressure to perform was too much. And he say, 'what you dont like me anymore?'.

No, she didnt. She was lazy and wanted an easy job. So it came with one requirement that she'll live with forever.

You once said a person in an A has "ding dong thinking within a fog" or something like that. This is my wife's brain for the last years.

The good years, if they were good, were 4 or 5 years ago. Things were not great since then.

Im moved on, she's moved on. Mother's Day freed her. Yesterday's meeting further moved her along.

Its all I can say.

I didn't mean to imply that you make me sick Mike. I've been where your OMW is though and your statement physically made me ill.



You are fortunate that OMW notified you of the affair. I would think she deserves the same from you in case of contact.

I have spent a lot of time reading the thoughts from those who have been betrayed and those who've betrayed. My pyschlogist I went to 2x early on when I was completely consumed by "sex" in the A suggested I have anal sex with my wife as "my claim" to her body. So, I discontinued the psychologist because I get more direct level headed advice, suggestions, path direction, and kicks in the a$$ from here.

I didnt seek anyone for approval on anything Ive done since I started this thread. Ive taken more advice than ignored it, thats for sure.

I have admitted things here that Im not proud of.

I am not seeking anyone's pat on the back.

I get that Ive gone against best judgement of Dr Harley and sent my wife to see her former lover. I did it for what I felt are the best reasons.

Some of the posters throughout this whole thing have become people I want to hear from because they write one thing or post one quote or imply one thing that inspires me. So to disappoint these same people when they become trusted sources of inspiration, thats why Im concerned about all the heat Ive taken.

Your explanation was that you sent her -- she did not ask, but you sent her -- to ensure that you got the full amount of money from the deal. Which, to me, seems very much like you ... used ... your wife for money. As I recall, that's is exactly what the OM was doing. I fail to see how any of this helps her to regain some dignity in the situation.

Hey Mike,

Just from my POV, and its not about just affairs, its about what might have driven her in the first place to be decietful.

My wife used to have a drinking problem, it seemed she could not ever say no when around people who drank, and there was no stopping once she started. Her desire to drink centered around being independant, and her personality changed after beer # 3. Yup Im an outta control wild one getting my share..Woo-hoo.

Part of whatever triggered her in this was allways kept secret, because, well, it was easier to belive others would not understand how tough life was for her, boo-hoo, than to get into an honest convo with people.

More deception, and making it worse again because of more deception. I certainly understand how substances are used when crap is just to heavy to handle, (her life as a young woman), but having to drink to feel free to express yourself? There was obviously a problem. It has to stop or it will kill you.

My dream was, and I believed in, her ability to go cold turkey and be able to control her drinking, through common sense and dealing with her emotions, that were obviously buried deep inside her where she would not, could not, bring them to the forfront. Cause and effect, why? She had extremely high moral standards, then dropped down to wild child when she drank a few. To me it was a matter of balance. I knew at that point that she really was not stable, but by the time I realized how entrenched this was with her, we were allready together with a child.

My leaving for two years brought her down to earth a little, but I still believed and thought she could control her drive to drink, even if surrounded by her slackjaw drugged up family, and it would be, "A proud badge of self-control". " A victory for her".

I let her go to her homestate after witnessing her handle herself well when her father died, two years later when she wanted to see her Step MIL. The reports I got years later,(Her family was so very careful not to tell if someone was a-drinkin, what loyalty hyuk), was that as soon as she got off the train it was take me to a bar.

That was the point where all recovery was lost, she hid in the bottle for two weeks, went to the local bars,(the kind where you wipe you feet on the way out?) with StepMIL and her newer, even more drunken than my late wives late father abusive boyfriend, and when she finnally came home, back to the children and me, she was nasty and defensive as ever to all of us. I knew what had happened, I knew that defensive guilt reflex, she had thrown it all away again. Now it was me that was entrenched, and after such a gloriuos recovery, I had accually started to get over the past, and BAM, back to square -1.

I kept it all to myself, didn't tell a soul, it would have embarrassed her to much. See we had moved next to her church, and everybody admired my wife, and she said how very important it was to be a part of that ministry, and that she would never want to drink again if she was there. That was her answer, that was better than AA, or phsychiatrists, and I wanted to believe that also, because I didn't want to accept that I wasn't all she needed.

The next 15 years was a slide down until we/she ended up in places we never thought we would, not after recovery, not after that gift from God for us and our family.

Just a word of caution, do you really want to take a chance on your recovery by being your wives sense of strength and security? Or are you willing to put this in the trusted hands of Dr H? I understand, some things we will never understand about you and your wives relationship. I can honor discretion in that you don't want to reveal every little wart to the world, or even be able to communicate to us so we could, "Get" how you work together. I get all of it, I am the poster child for taking the beatings for others and thinking I am doing them a favor because I am so understanding and all.

But it IS possible, that your love for your wife, might blind you to something she needs, that DR H counseling would help in, and you have a long way to go yet, trust me, to total recovery. I'm praying for you, and I just broke in tears, that you go to the experts, and don't try to handle this alone.

I leave you with these scriptures


Proverbs 1:5
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

Proverbs 19:20
Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.

Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Proverbs 24:6
For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety

Lets not forget this is spirtual warfare.

God bless you on your recovery

You have taken heat for taking foolish, irresponsible risks with your marriage from people who really do care. And for showing a shocking, callous disregard for your W's other victim, the OMW. Stoop is simply telling you what you hear because he doesn't care. Anyone who condones what you did, does not care about you or your marriage. The others do care enough to point out that this is very reckless behavior on the part of you and your wife. What has happened is that you and your wife have been put back to Day 1 of recovery, my friend.

And I believe this is the SECOND time your wife has had some lame excuse to contact her OM again, so this is a pattern. And you also rationalized it then.

The OM is now back to top of mind with your wife. There is no way to defend such recklessness because the success of your marriage depends on your wife's absolute no contact with the OM. You are the chicken player who got hit by the car and you won't get out of the road. Just keep up that stupidity and you will soon find the affair is back on. And don't tell me you are "different" or that it won't happen to you. BULLCRAP. If you don't recognize your vulnerability you are in much greater danger and I believe that is the root of the problem. You just don't GET IT.

The posters here would be remiss if they didn't point out the dangerous game you play. It's real easy for posters who don't care to tell you what you want to hear, but its much harder to tell you what you need to hear. Keep that in mind.

Spoken by the LEAST objective person on this thread.

Why? Why be demoralised? What is the benifet of that? What was the attraction to it? Does she want to be controlled?

There are questions I would be asking, and if she said she wanted you to control her, I would want to run for the hills. Thats like "I can't help myself, I am so weak, I can't be held responsible"

Those relationships never seem to turn out well, just ask the big bad control freak insecure dude who has the poor little dainty princess child bride how it ended, or how they grew up. One or the other has to have happened.
For me, and as I imagine for you also, I would rather choose the humility of beliveing I did not know rather than acting like I did, and asking the questions.

She is not an innocent little flower, and neither are you the Knight in Shining armor. None of us are, those are just illusions and fantasys.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Its up to each of us to maintain our own heart, time for your WW to do some of her own. Don't worry, shes worth it.

I really tried not to get involved in this, folks. I really did. But not for the first time am I going to point out that BSs in the painful days of recovery remind me of the speech in 1776 made by Ben Franklin when he says they're trying to get something off the ground, "half compromised, half bastardized", and the most important thing is to attend to the primary goal. EAOTP!

MSS is not concealing from OMW the facts/details of the affair - she KNOWS them. SHE DISCOVERED THEM. MSS's secretiveness is specific to the financial details of the repayment existance/plan/schedule.

MSS, you do as you think is best in that matter. (I would also suggest that you concentrate, both IRL and on this thread, from hereon out on the recovery efforts you and your wife will be involved in.)

(I now await the usual dung flung in my general direction.)

But isn't that the way they all are? I admit that I was at times, we can't see the forest through the trees?