Dr. Harley on telling the children:

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here

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Our close friends, both our families, and a few of my coworkers already know whats going on with WW and OM. I've only known about this for 5 days so tomorrow will be the day - while everything is still fresh. Strange but I actually feel better after admitting to myself that I'm going to do this.

Because you are taking steps to save your marriage - good for you! I can't tell you how many frightened betrayed spouses actually allow their spouse to continue their affair because they're afraid - which makes no sense AT ALL.

TW, who told her parents and family members and WHAT were they told? Are they trying to persuade her to end her affair? What have they said to her exactly? And how did YOUR coworkers know? Where do they come in?

In order to save your marriage, she will have end her affair and leave that job. It will be impossible to save your marriage if she continues to see the OM at work. Every time they see each other puts her back to day 1 of recovery.

Dr Harley recommends that you DEMAND she end her affair.

From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

Trainwreck,

Having been there myself with one of the worst �perfect storm� WW-offenders possible, I empathize strongly with what you are going through. The BH/WW scenario is near-and-dear to my heart and I have a great deal of personal experience with it, including making nearly every possible mistake a BH can make in this difficult and emotionally-wrenching situation. Please let me impart a few important things to you because I have BEEN THERE, DONE THAT:


This is CLASSIC affair-babble that virtually every WW uses when �caught� red-handed, confronted, or if/when she�s thinking about heading for the exit. She is scapegoating you and badmouthing her marriage (�re-writing history�) to rationalize and justify her cheating and to deflect blame or responsibility away from herself and HER OWN ACTIONS. There probably were/are legitimate �problems�, disconnections, and discontents within her with regard to your relationship, but an affair is NOT a solution to those and is NOT a justifiable response to them.

Most importantly, before the 2 of you can repair and remedy these issues THE AFFAIR MUST END. She will be unwilling to participate meaningfully in this AS LONG AS SHE IS INVOLVED IN THE AFFAIR AND EMOTIONALLY CONNECTED TO THE OM. Until this happens, she will continue to lie to you, cover things up, make excuses, and respond defensively as she did. This is why confronting your WW one-on-one with suspicions and/or evidence is usually fruitless�it almost always results in deceits, denials, white-washing, or blame-shifting. The fact that she does these rather than what she should do (confession, remorse, responsibility, repentance, �ending it� permanently & completely) PROVES THAT SHE IS EMOTIONALLY ADDICTED TO THE OM AND EMOTIONALLY �CHECKED-OUT� FROM YOU right now.


First of all, ALL CHEATERS LIE. Even when caught and confronted with evidence, they still lie their butt off. It is very rare for any WS to �come fully clean� right off the bat. They almost always only cop to ONLY that which the BS has the undeniable goods to prove and bury/deny the rest. Basically your WW is saying: yeah, so you know about my internet chat with the OM from the last 3 weeks so I can�t fool you on that, but it�s your fault anyway and I�m not telling you a darn thing more!

Unless you are the lucky exception, most affairs have been going on clandestinely for quite a while BEFORE they are ever discovered or even suspected and very rarely is the �evidence� the BS uncovers at first a complete revelation of the affair�s duration, timeline, and activity. In sum, it is very unlikely that the �3 weeks of phone records� represent the �whole story� here and your WW�s claims MEAN NOTHING. Did I mention that all cheaters lie? It is likely that the affair has been going on way longer than 3 weeks and that more than �just words� have been exchanged. Remember, they live in the same town and work together (the workplace being the most common affair-mechanism), so they�ve had plenty of chances to interact, verbally and physically, beyond just the phone/internet and beyond your eyeshot/earshot. They still do.

No matter what�no matter how long ago it started, no matter whether sexual or not�MB principles for responding to an affair are the same. Read up on PLAN A IMMEDIATELY and LEARN THE PROCEDURE ASAP. Your watchwords to yourself should be:

SNOOP, GATHER (info & evidence), & EXPOSE!

DO NOT DELAY OR DITHER!


Do NOT believe her one bit! She will continue to contact/see him (�underground� as you correctly surmised) as long as she is able to do so. She is emotionally ADDICTED to the high of the affair and it thrives on SECRECY. You must SNOOP, GATHER, & then EXPOSE the affair to everyone (everyone means EVERYONE�workplace, relatives, friends, your kids, OM�s wife/family) ALL AT ONCE AND WITHOUT WARNING.

Now that your WW knows you are on to her, she and OM are going to cover their tracks all the more carefully. Please hire a PI immediately and read the �Operation Investigate� forum thoroughly to give you tips on how to do this effectively and unobtrusively (which is why a PI is so effective). It is the NUCLEAR EXPOSURE OF TRUTH & CONSEQUENCES which shatters the secrecy, shakes the affair�s �forbidden fruit� allure, brings social/financial/moral repercussions, and tends therefore to hasten its demise.


This is true�about her �feelings��they can and will fade away ONLY with the complete no-contact that the affair�s demise (via EXPOSURE) can bring about. Her �feelings� will NOT dissipate as long as she remains in contact�any kind of contact�with the OM. So, ignore this for now and focus on SNOOP, GATHER & EXPOSE.

The 2nd part of her statement is utter standard-WS bullpoop. She is bamboozling you (or attempting to) with requests for �time and space�, not to �deal with her feelings�, but to INDULGE THEM SOME MORE. When a WW asks for �time and space�, she is trying to get the heat off her so she can continue pursuing (emotionally and sexually) the affair unimpeded and in SECRECY. Do NOT fall for this one bit and do not accede to her requests or suggestions.


Of course she is �sad��her secret fantasy is now in jeopardy. That�s the WHOLE POINT of exposure. She will turn from �sad� to VERY �mad� when you expose�do it anyway and ignore her anger and threats and outburst. They will fade. Your marriage CAN survive her temporary tantrums; it CANNOT survive an ongoing affair.

Her seeing an individual counselor=fine and good. You 2 going to joint �marriage counseling�=bad idea and a waste of time. DON�T DO IT. Until you do the above, break the affair, and she commits to NC w/ the OM and to recovering your marriage, marriage counseling is useless at best and often counter-productive.

Want to know what is going to happen if you try to �counsel� with an emotionally-addicted, ongoing-WW? I�ll tell you as I foolishly did it:

WW is going to lie/deny her butt off about the affair beyond what you already know.
WW is going to scapegoat the heck out of you and your marriage.
WW is going to fingerpoint and blameshift to avoid any responsibility for the marital situation.
WW is going to tell the MC how �hopeless� and �dead� your marriage is.
WW is going to (try to) convince the MC that she is �totally unhappy� and that divorce is the only �solution� for her.
WW is going to ignore anything the MC tells her that goes against her preconceived ideas of how �she can be happy� in the future.
WW is going to sabotage it all so she can look like �she tried, but it didn�t work so she needs to just move on�.

Bottom line, rather than spending time, effort, and money on MC, SPEND THOSE THINGS ON SNOOPING, GATHERING, & EXPOSING.

Wanted to add to SDCWmans excellent post that individual counseling will be a disaster for your marriage. An IC will help her attain her object of her affection, so expect to hear something about a "trial separation" or other marriage wrecking advice. An IC helps the client achieve individual desires, NOT what is best for your marriage.

Train,

While what Melody writes about IC is (sadly) often true�most counselors, contrary to popular belief, have NO IDEA how to truly save troubled marriages, especially those afflicted by active infidelity, and usually make things worse not better�there is nothing you can do to prevent her from seeing one on her own if she wants to. She may be seeking a �professional ally� to validate her lifestyle choices & adultery and (sadly again) there is no shortage of counselors who will excuse affairs and rationalize them as a �normal reaction to a marriage that was over anyway�. Other than refusing to pay for her counseling fees�and you should vigilantly cut off all possible financing of the affair and anything that enables it�I don�t see anything you can do to stop her from seeing an IC.

My point was to REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE in any sort of joint or �couples�/�marriage counseling�. I think I explained exactly why this is a waste of time & money for you and why it is often counter-productive as long as she is still involved with the OM. Focus your efforts on breaking the affair and doing a strong Plan A.

Relationship counseling is for way down the road AFTER the affair is over and hopefully your WW is participating sincerely and with her heart in the right place. It is a waste while she is cheating�she doesn�t care about your marriage now or she wouldn�t be involved with an OM.