Indie,

I think you and I were reading the same page on Neak's thread.

There was always that competitive undertone about my OW that always confused me. That is why I never considered her to be my BEST friend...just a friend. Example, everytime I bought my daughter a new toy, OW literally the next day would buy her daughter the same toy only the super deluxe edition. She did this every single time and she did it with everything. She always had to be bigger and better. She even grew out her hair to match mine. That really annoyed me.

A lot of things will start to make sense to you now.

I haven't read the art of war thread you were speaking about. It sounds interesting.

Cheers.

This is becomng uncanny. Blackwidow has grown out her hair and started wearing it in the same style I wore it when softlad and I were first dating!

What is it about Neak's thread, I read it too, one of the first ones I read all the way through and found lots of similarities with my sitch.

I think LTA's with friends are really hard, but like you Indie, I have come to see some amazing women on here and take a lot of courage from them.

Ginge wanted my life too, she followed me in so many ways, began liking te same music, affected to be interested in art (when she really is such a girly girl that she had no interest). she wanted my advice on clothes as she usually looked like a bag of dirty washing tied in the middle.

Uncanny resemblances!!

So proud of you tho Indie, you are doing brilliantly.

Poor Softlad doesn't know whats hit him!!

haha, she might be after my life and my hairdo, but she's still a tacky loser.

Softlad does not know whats hit him - I think, but here in the darkness, it's not really a concern.

Need to concentrate on Indie-land today.

Good I think thats the biggest thing I have learned on this journey, that by making myself well, I make myself strong and whatever comes, I am going to be fine.

The only thing I can control is myself.

Have a good day, hope the sun is shining where you are!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

That is the BEST quote ever Indie! "she might be after my life and my hairdo but she's still a tacky loser".

You win some kind of award for that. I'm sure of it!!! AWesome Indie! A gal after my own heart. <3

You're doing great. Focus on you, and keeping you financially secure while exploring new adventures (love the idea of you travelling on the ship)until you decide what it is you wish to do. Hopefully he will pull his head out of his butt soon though, b/c he's got a fabulous and fiesty wife! If not for him, then in time for another lucky guy!

Just know that he will come out of the fog, and I still believe that the message that needs to come out, or have others bring it since you're in plan B is that him having the affair with his deceased buddy's skankwife is DISHONORING his friends' memory. I'd paint it literally like them rutting on top of the grave of his friend. What a lovely mental image that is. I'm all about having the affair painted to be as ugly as it can possibly be. Maybe mention that lovely idea to IM, but stay dark.

One day he will wake up and realize that. He is not doing his friend a favor. He is not being a good guy. And she will wake up and realize she's a predatory skank too. Trust me, when there are lies and deceit, they don't make for much of any type of a foundation for any type of relationship at all. So affairs are doomed.

Look at it like this Indie, you will have a great life no matter what (this is what I said to myself all the time). Because God loves you, you honor your marriage and friends and family. And He will give you the beautiful future you deserve and we don't know how things will go yet. But trust! Work this plan and trust. Either the dunderhead ws will wake up, get his crap together and commit to a true recovery and go nc, or he doesn't. And if he doesn't he WILL regret it, and you will meanwhile NOT regret any of the hard work you did and somebody possibly better will come your way in time.

It is a win/win situation for those who take the higher road. Always is. I'm living proof. Most mathematical odds say that a woman over 35 finding love again is about the same odds as say, me getting eaten by a great white shark. But it happened! (not the shark mind you, he he!) I met my now dh at 38. Remarried at 41. I had to walk thru the fire so God could help shape me into a better person first. Hugs to you! You're doing great!

Peachy, I love you, cant help it.

As to driving home how he dishonours DF's memory, I think people will have said this, but because im staying dark, and have asked people not to mention him to me not sure.

DF doesnt have a grave by the way, he was cremated. Apparently they had talked about how they wanted funeral arrangments when they sorted life insurance. They wanted to both be cremated and have their ashes scattered together, by the kids. This was assuming they would be grown up by then.

She still has his ashes, had a very special sealed and decorated box made, she used to say that she took it to bed with her. She also started wearing his wedding ring around her neck on a chain. It wasnt always visible, though so I dont know if she kept it up.

I have wondered about this; have they had sex in her house, where DFs ashes are? Did she take off the wedding ring? I dont think your image of them having sex on his grave is too far off the mark, peaches.

I have a lot to forgive, if you really start looking into it.

They used their grief for my beloved friend as cover, then when that started to wear thin, they used my desire for children to keep me in line.

No wonder it's war!

I do think an amazing man is waiting for me. Either he is in a dark chrysallis and will break free of his alien host - or he just hasnt met me yet.

Will be fun finding out.

Yeah, Peachy rocks.

You should put that line somewhere Indie. Is there a thread for "best comebacks by a BS"?

Your gonna be fine, hang in there

Ok this is a gurlz thread lol, but I can't help but make the comment. I have allways said that women dress for other women a lot of the time, because of the competion really. It remeinds me of something an old guy said about his teenage daughter, that all the makeup was "War paint" Lol.

Not that it all a bad thing...(I can just see Pep chiming in with,"So what is your point?")

Haha - have put the 'tacky loser' line in my sig!


Long post coming up.

Ok today was rough, but feel alright now. Lots of processing that I just couldnt get away from. One thing I keep coming back to is there was a time when I was on the brink of my own EA.

We'd been married about a year. My h was worried about losing his job, I wanst earning and he was very distant. My efforts to talk to him only seemed to worry him more, so i made a very naive decision to just put 'my feelings in the freezer' and wait for him to get over his worry. Very stupid.

At the time I was on a course that involved spending all day every day with the same group of people. I became very close to them, and felt they were important to me, although funnily enough I am no longer in contact with any of them!

One in particlar seemed to admire me a great deal, though nothing inappropriate was ever said or done. It was mostly 'looking' if that makes sense. The flattery was overpowering, but it didnt make me happy at all. It made very anxious and worried.

I knew that I wouldnt find him attractive if I was single. I knew it was only a reflection of problems at home. I knew it was shallow. But knowing these things seemed to make no difference to the pull I felt. It was horrible, like a rip tide that I was ashamed to call for help with.

I felt if I didn't unburden myself soon, I would go mad. I actually think if this peson had been a bit more overt or predatory, I would have spoken to him about it. That would have led to a discussion about feelings - and bang - full blown EA.

In my case, luckily he was actually very careful not to overstep any bounds. I dont credit him with any nobility on this point though. I think he was a bit immature, wanted to have a no-pressure crush and selfishly enjoyed my reactions.

This left me talking to my sis, but this didnt help.

I ended up being forced into the only option left - talking to my H as Dr Harley recommends in his policy of radical honesty. (though this was long before ever hearing of it) He was angry, sure, but the months and years that followed were better than any of our earliest courtship days, it made us very close.

My problem is this. I know the fear of feeling pulled out of your control. I know that it must have been so much worse for him, while he felt he 'had' to comfort a widow who was calling on him so much.

My other problem though is that it happened at a time when I was giving him all my love and support. I had nothing to do with him pulling away, even if I wasnt persistent enough.

The last problem is I showed a great example of honesty, and he never paid me back when it was his turn.

On my side of the street, though, I saw first hand how out of control feelings can get when you live independent lives, and still never changed it.

Sorry for venting, but I do think this is an important piece of the puzzle

Hi Indie,

OK so that says you are and always have been someone with one of those moral compasses!

He is a stupid man at the moment, he is so far up the nile. I don't think you need to beat yourself up for a fleeting glimpse of a different world. You made a choice and were honest.

In my world we call that

Modelling behaviour

you show them how to behave.

Like a parent, as a social worker I used to model how to manage tantrums with parents, what do they say .....see one ,,,do one....teach one.

Your behaviour has already modelled to him how good people behave.

Over to him!

(I love this little Brit corner and the humour that comes off the page!!) Love the tacky loser sig!

Zen feeling went out with the tide. Been sobbing for a solid hour. Even asked god to help me at one point. Though I've been agnostic for years. The pain is unbelievable.

No particular thing set me off.

You've all been through this. Worse, some of you. False recoveries, multiple APs, OW pregnancies....

Im in awe. I dont know how you live through this never mind that.

Ok so hes started using the IM, so I should be pysched. Its hard though when I have a wayward alien instead of the husband who loves me. Feeling really sorry for myself!

I know you've read my thread, so let me just say - boy do I feel you on this one! I just want my H back - not this weird fog person.

((((((Seraph))))))

Go get 'em

Indie, you are one strong woman. I know you have hinted at what you do for a living because you "work persona " is what you have been using but let's just say I want to be on your good side :-)

Indie, there are going to be times when your thoughts will turn to your WH. This is a LONGGGGGGGG process. And, unfortunately, you can't skip any of the steps. It's what we do after we experience the pain, and anger that matters. So, other than stay up late(you must be a night owl) what are you gonna do for yourself to heal?

Take care of yourself. You're doing GREAT.

Moral compass indeed Indie


I had a time, back when I was 20, when a lot of women use to hit on me in the factory I was a supervisor in.

I had just returned from out of state, my W was pregnant by someone else, and I was still reeling emotionally. I thought in my juvenile mind, that if I ever had an excuse to stray, this was it. I had never done that sort of thing, because I knew what it would bring, and respected marrige too much, and thought it would crush my W. But now, feeling lower than snail poop, and being surrounded by people who did cheat, I thought maybe it might be a good idea. Maybe thats what I needed to stop feeling so bad.

But I could not bring myself to do it, and I thought there was something wrong with me. Something very important and deep was lost, and I wanted to do anything to fix it. (This was in the late 70s). So I went to a therapist, to discuss it, because I was so damaged I thought. He heard my problem, and laughed,..(So what you are having a problem with is that you have morals?"

Lets jump to 1999, when my second marriage was at a breaking point. I was in my 40s, and I had allways been an attractive guy, gregarious and outgoing, and a very young but interestting co-worker female was flirting way to much with me. I because very attached and infatuated with her, and it was obvious she liked me also. This happened during the course of her allready giving me a ride home at night, so by that time, it was at a breaking point.

On the way home one night we dissused our attraction to each other. It kinda blurted out, and we imediatly agreed, if anything happened it would have been the lowest crappy thing we could do to one another, and we respected each other more than that. I was in a full blown EA, although the only need fufilled was admiration and respect. Because I was in a bad place, and we had become trusted friends. I could probably be her friend today, but I think she probably married her DSs daddy, (One of the things we talked about, as in why didn't he), and besides that, I was way to old to give her what she deserved, and there was something there and allways would be.


See people CAN remain under control and in reality, and because I have allways been brutally and radically honest, I allways conveyed my feelings to my wives,even when they were not good to hear, because they need to hear them, to help me also.

Like you said Indie, you opened up to your soul-mate, to avoid what you knew was wrong. Yes he did not do that with you, and yes, that IS an important part of the puzzle.

hhaha. it is best, to be honest!