Yes, it is.

SAA is what you need right now. It shows you the path you and WW both need to take in order to get to the place where you can implement HNHN.

I found my copy of HNHN at the thrift store for $.35 and snapped it up in a hurry. It's an incredible book, and much more fun to do that stuff than SAA stuff.

It does give you a view of what wonderful things may be on the other side of the hard and unpleasant job of busting up and surviving an A.

Absolutely.

Bugs, if you are a non-reader, I strongly recommend you start a practice of listening to Dr. Harley's radio show every day. It's like taking a course from Dr. Harley. I wouldn't use that to replace the books, but to supplement, review, and reinforce them.

Is your phone an iPhone? There's an iPhone app that lets you get the radio program automatically every day and listen to it on the go.

But I echo Neak and strongly suggest that you drop everything else and read through SAA, fast. Time is of the essence.

Ugh....thanks for all the encouragement. Haven't read anything today, and honestly right now I just want to quit....is that normal? (Either quit or go into separation where I don't have to deal with roller coaster attitude.)

Yes, absolutely normal.

However, at this stage if you go into a separation it will almost certainly end in D. WW's typically need more work than WH's to attract them back into the M. You can do it, and I gave you some shining examples of WW's who made it back from Zombieland.

If you give up now, you'll never know if you could have made a difference. If you go through the whole plan, start to finish, you'll at least know you did everything you could. And you'll be well set up for your own happilyeverafter, hopefully with her, and still happy even if she chooses another way.

Here is the link where you can listen to a new radio program every day. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html Each weekday there is a new show, which then broadcasts every hour around the clock till the next show. Friday's show plays all weekend.

I'm not the one who wants the separation. I'm just so totally frustrated that I almost don't care anymore.

Bugs, this is why time is of the essence. If you strike hard against the affair, and eliminate it, you can begin healing. If you wait and only take weak ineffective actions, the affair will grind you down.

If WW really, really wanted the separation, she would have already filed. Mostly likely she's hoping to wear you down, just like you are, so you get tired enough to file and then she doesn't have to feel so bad. "He filed, after all."

AJ admitted this after his A. He had deliberately tried to be so horrible to me that I would give up on him and he would be "free" to move on with the OW. He didn't want to do it himself, and wanted me to be the bad guy. It was so frustrating for him at the time that I wouldn't play the game by his rules.


Egg-zack-lee!

I guess I just wonder who would be more free? Her or me? I know y'all will probably slam me, but I'm just really tired of "fighting".

What's to slam? It's your right to decide when you've had enough, and when you want to stop fighting.

Many people here want to explore their options for saving their M's, even if it involves a lengthy, painful, tiring battle. Others do not. It's a personal decision.

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might. No matter which choice you make, throw your effort and energy into it. What you don't want to do is limp along without a plan.

Are you willing to talk to the Harleys before you decide? They're even better than all of us, and I don't receive any commission for saying so.

I'm willing I guess to talk to them, but not sure at this point if it will change anything. She doesn't appear to want to reconcile the relationship, and I'm not sure at this point that I am bothered by it. I feel like I should be upset about it - but at least right now it is almost like I'm relieved.

It's a fight to kill an A and R a M, no question. And while there is always a risk of failure, the odds IMO are worth it.

People who have kids are often willing to fight even harder to protect the littles from the terrible damage inflicted by a broken home.

There comes a point where it is useless to actively continue the fight, and that's when Dr. H recommends Plan B, and waiting for 2 years for the A to end on its own.

While I would still recommend Plan A for you as your best course of action at this time, I would recommend Plan B as a better option than a D.

The reason for this is of COURSE she doesn't want to reconcile at this point. She's still actively in an A. She wants to protect her drug...the happy chemicals that actually flood her brain whenever she sees or thinks of OM. She's a totally typical WW, reading right from the script every day that ends in "y".

Why you don't feel bothered by it is something for you to figure out. What, if anything, you want to do about it is also for you to decide.

I would still recommend one counseling session. See what they have to say, and go from there.

I want to encourage you that your case is not hopeless, and that you still have a chance to salvage your M. Every effort that God wants you to make on behalf of your family, He will give you the strength to make.

I feel like the only "progress" we have made at all has been because she wants to protect her career. I know the physical affair has ended at least at this point, but she still is in contact with the OM, and blames me for the problems she is having at work. I believe the only reason she is staying with me is because she doesn't want it to affect her career.

Nothing will get better as long as this is the case.

I don't think anybody would blame you if you decide to kick her to the curb. You didn't ask to go through this. You don't deserve. It's your right to say "I don't want to do this anymore. Goodbye."

But you do have children to think of, too. I'm with Neak -- talk to Dr. Harley before you make a final decision.

Even if you haven't done a full Plan A, I would far rather see you go into Plan B early, than to not go at all.

Plan B is a haven of protection for you. It will shield you from her continuing cruelty and abuse. I recommend Plan B to all BS's, whether they want to R their M or not. Even if you just D her, you don't need to suffer the additional pain that WILL COME if she has access to you.

I still have not given up your M as hopeless. The consequences are only just now bearing down, which is GREAT!!! Even if she blames you, remember I always say a WS blames the BS for breathing, too. The A is becoming a more and more uncomfortable place for her to be.

That is a good time to have home calling to her as a better option. Even in Plan B, it will still call her.

You sound very tired. Make sure you take care of yourself, first and foremost.

Ditto.

I need a good plan for doing a plan B I guess. I believe it would take a very big miracle at this point to reconcile things.

It always takes a big miracle, but such things abound here.

There are some really good threads about Plan B. I'll try and point you to some of them, and ask others, too.