Quick note; do not confuse "accepting" with "liking."

Events in the past occurred, you don't have to like it, but if you wish to get off of your duff and start moving forward, you have to accept that.

"You do not have to like something to accept it."

Mike,

thats so true, on the days when I get triggered, and today was one of them as I had to drive past her house and her work, which is rare, but does happen, I have to tell myself that no matter how much it hurts, nothing and no one can change what was.

We can only work with what is.

My boundaries are rock solid, any contact and thats it.....end of story.

In some ways I think that does hold me back because I am so so ready to walk, that would be an easy route, but then I get an ILY text or he makes a gesture of some kind and I realise that although he still gets a bit smarting cos he did care for her and cant see her or even know if she is OK, he has made a choice.

He knows how ready I was to walk in December, and while he an't or won't talk about his feelings to me, except when I get angry and then he gets defensive, his actions speak louder.

He can't change the past, WE can affect our own future.

I think it's particularly hard for us hun, the affairs went on so b******y long, but......... that was........this is.

Take some time to write down the good things, say a thank you for something every day, oh and breathe!!

A gratitude list for low times is a good idea.

A gratitude list is an excellent tool at all times, as a matter of fact.

If it's good enough to lift people out of the pits of depression, suicidal ideations, and schizophrenia... I'd say it's good enough for pretty much anything.

Things I say thank you for......

A sunset, sunrise

catching sight of a wild animal or bird of prey (they are so free)

A smile from a child

an unexpected ILY comment or text

an opportunity to help a friend out

my cats

watching ponies have a mad half hour in a field

anything that takes my mind of sad/angry things and makes me realise that as KT Tunstall said (UK musician)

Hold on to what you've got cos the world will turn if you're ready or not!!

It has to get better MIke, and if you look back at your early posts and the despair in those, you will see how far you have come. In 4 months........so think where you could be in a year.

Think what you have learned about yourself and your wife.....I think thats a good enough reason to hang in there a bit longer!

Just catching up, but....

Wow, just wow! I have NEVER, and I mean NEVER, read something more insightful or true to the core than what JL has posted to you.

I knew she was an all-star, but WOW!

Small, simple steps.

Begin with this singular goal; eliminate your AO's.

1 step, 1 goal. Focus and move.

Schtoop:

Agreed. There has been an outstanding stretch of wisdom on this thread surrounded mostly by my lunacy.

Came at a real good time for me too.

mss

schtoop,

You said Just a question. Were you talking about me?

If you were, I am not a she, nope just a guy.

Many others seem to have made that assumption as well. I think I am flattered really.

God Bless,

JL

It must be your feminine, empathetic side showing, JL!

I previously posted to a different infidelity site, and a particular disagreement with the "BW mafia" there led to one of them accusing me of being a WW!

Oh, the indignity!

After last weeks meltdown and barrage of AOs, I agreed to go with my wife to her psychologist for the first time last night. I begrudgingly went since I felt like I was in a good place mentally after hurting her last week and a several really good days. Another thing is I really dont want to sit and chat about this with anyone to be honest. I tried it with my own pyschol a couple of months ago and I just didnt get it. AND, lastly, she was referred to this guy by a friend who has been seeing him for a couple years and his schedule is booked solid and its like pulling teeth to get an appt. WHAT A FARCE.

Its 50 minutes and a $40 copay Id like back.

I just get so much more coming on here updating the thread with my thoughts and actions and getting the real help I need.

He just asked questions and made generalities like "do you love her?", "do you love him", then everything else will work out. This came in response to my question, 'how do I reconcile a couple facts?: 1) my very remorseful wife was in love with another man for many years, only since she was caught (not confessed), but caught, does she want to be in love me only. 2) she was able to keep a hoax going with this lover under the noses of me and my children which can be described by many as one of the most evil things someone can do.' (Im not asking anyone here to respond to these as you have already over the passed 8 weeks.)

I seriously sat there and responded T&P is the answer to everything. My wife knows this and I know it. Id like my copay back because it wasnt necessary to rehash the BS brought up only to have me come back to T&P as the answer.

At the end he suggested I find someone to speak to you so I can have that outlet, I held it in as respect to him, but I thought I have a couple dozen people who know me well and help me everyday. I just dont sit in their office. mss

I'm going to throw over the little tea-cart that is being wheeled about on this thread, MSS.

"Time and Patience" is a sop to abandon "Course and Execution", strategy which is what emotionally intense creatures like you and I need. It's the counselling equivalent to "No Payments For 90 Days! (and then we hit you with higher interest charges.)"

When I say "Course" I refer to things we've already discussed:

• Decide if you want to recover your marriage, or dissolve it. You supposedly did that a long time ago.
• Determine if she is doing everything in her ability to NOT revert to the bad days, even in fantasy.
• Understand that you and she cannot ever undo what was done in the past. That power is not given us.
• Start building the life you want - FROM THIS POINT - using MB principles.

"Execution" is the tactics to keep you on track when your emotions or other unexpected events start to waylay your progress. You CONTINUE to fail at execution to maintain the third step above. You have an AO; you feel bad the next morning; you come here; we re-shape your head; you leave claiming to have seen the light; you have another AO.

NO ONE ELSE CAN INTERRUPT YOUR CYCLE, MSS. Not us here, not any counsellor, not your FWW, You have to do it, because the probable outcomes of your continued adolescent tantrums will be:

• Your FWW will begin to despise you - for your actions, and for your weakness in preventing them
• Your children will start to fear and resent you.
• Likely, someday when FWW stands up more than you'd expect, you'll take your outburst into the physical realm, and - SURPRISE - the law-enforcement goons are not as understanding as we are.

I'm not trained in this stuff, but over two months in, and you're still berating FWW as you admit you are is a precarious situation. I would hope that better-informed folks than I might chime in here, but I'm doubting that your commitment to the first step (recovery vs dissolution) is at all firm. Your actions are indicating you want "out" but don't care to initiate the step. Rather than "leaving" you appear to want to make her "flee". Not good.

NG-

Since early June my outbursts have been few and far between which made last weeks episode so bad. Some were quick to blame me for breaking the NC rule the week earlier. But, that is a non-starter in my opinion as it was I who orchestrated and conceived that plan, not the FWW. And, it was only done because I have a strong belief she has no emotional tie to him. Lets not go there again.

Regarding your post, I cannot accomplish C & E without T & P, OK? I do understand I cannot demolish my wife's relatively fragile psyche and expect not to blow up in my face down the road if it continues. I also know that I cannot continually burn down one's house and expect an "Im sorry" to be accepted.

With respect to "berating" my wife, this stopped for a very long time in my book and only reared its head last week. Yes, I have had some moping sessions and silent treatments doled out throughout, but im still working thru the hurt.

I understand theres a clear plan (C & E) to be followed and Ive been less than perfect at it. My wonderful wife has shown and expressed incredible patience while I lost my focus on the plan.

Im in love with her and want to stay with her. I said and written to her. She has done the same to me. As I have made a commitment to live with her past indiscretions and grow other parts of our relationship, she has given me the latitude to get thru the intense hurt and subsequent (and much less frequent) angry outbursts. I know that they derail the C and E. But I also know its take more T and P for them to stop forever.

Im working feverishly to get thru the early angry stage and Im almost there. I really feel it. What happened last week was a freak episode by an insane person. Also, not one AO ever has happened within earshot of a child of mine. And, if I was ever to raise my hand to her, it would have happen around May 8th or 9th, thats also a not starter. If it ever got to the point where I felt I needed to hit her, I would remove myself well before that happened.

I think JL said it best in his post the other day, I will learn to live with what she did, maybe never accept it, but I will learn to live to with it and will stay with her. There is so much more to her than the mistake she made and we are learning about that everyday.

Please bear with me.

Nice post Mike.

Nice post Mike.

Yes, it was. So were the previous four or five in the aftermaths of sessions of expressed anger.

I'm still here, MSS. It's your inability to stay "here" that is worrisome.

Engineering analogy:

T x V = D

"Time" has no value as an indicator of progress unless it is factored by a Velocity FROM where you are TO where you want to be, represented as Distance.

Your inconsistency of action-oriented commitment has chewed up over two months of recovery period. I would urge you to stay on course, my friend.

If you are going to live together in harmony in the future, you need to live together differently. It�s time to start over. The most sacred aspects of this marriage have already been violated. Now you both have to begin to rebuild.
Grieving the Loss
During the anguish phase, some recovery can begin. But it won�t be steady progress �rather it will probably be two steps forward and one step back. It�s a rocky time emotionally, but that�s part of the normal process of grieving the losses: loss of trust, of the one-pure marital relationship, and so on.

Just about the time that the violated spouse thinks he/she is getting over the pain, it will suddenly resurface. But be encouraged; gradually the pain will become less intense and less frequent, and the good times between the down times will lengthen.

This grief process is similar to grieving the death of a spouse. Violated spouses do indeed report many responses that parallel those of widows:

� They feel abandoned by their mate.
� They feel alone in their grief.
� They feel as if they could have done something to prevent this.
� They feel like a marked person. They don�t fit in with normal couples anymore.
� They have a lot of unfinished business with their spouse that is now off-limits or has been overshadowed by what has occurred.
� They feel terrified of the future.
� They feel they should be doing better than they are for the time that they�ve been in it.
� They will even pretend nothing has happened (such as the widow who sets a plate for the lost partner at the dinner table).

Forgiveness is a decision Mike not a feeling. We are both doing the same things to our FWW's. Im trying to stop. Please lets both do.

This is not consistent with the model of just compensation within MB.

Thinking that it is a "decision," IMO, makes it more of a weight.

I was able to forgive my wife not because I "decided" to, but because she is consistent with just compensation.

It is, indeed, a feeling. And when it is accomplished, it is true and deep, and not much like those who "decide" to forgive, which is often just a lip-service commitment to forgiveness.

The first and most important lesson I learned here was that forgiveness isn't given, you can't decide to give it... it is earned through time and action.

Knowing that, I did not think of forgiveness until it occurred to me that it had happened.


Just something to chew on.

Im really counting on the T and P part of recovery will allow me T and P. And in my version of recovery, part of it will allow me those moments of outbursts. I have them and now they seem to be fewer and further apart until, I assume, they'll be no more.

I understand the emotions I toy with in her when I get crazed, but she also knows I need to let them out. I get not nearly as much satisfaction letting the out on this forum as I do when I confront her with them. Again, luckily, they are getting less and less with both you and her.

We are going to be a couple now and forever. We have changed dynamics in our relationship and all for the better. Im a changed man in a lot of respects and she is definitely a new person who I adore.

I said this before and to her psychologist last nite, my FWW can write the book how to save you save your marriage after you get caught cheating. Shes done it all right, in my opinion.

I feel very much like I can and perhaps have already forgiven. Its the forgetting (or just living with the knowledge) of it that Im still working on.

MIke,

Just compensation is a very valid concept, but forgiveness is still a decision, why? Well, to my way of thinking the WS can offer just compensation, can offer everything they have, and the BS still has to accept it or there is nothing.

Forgiveness has been discussed many times at length on this site over the past decade, (we don't seem to have those discussion as much any more which is sad), and it is a complex concept.

I think your focus on T&P is well advised, but as been mentioned time by itself really doesn't solve the issue, it is really only valid if there is effort. I believe you are puting in the effort and it sounds as if your W is as well.

Let me ask you something Mike. In the best of all worlds what would your marriage look like in 10 years? In the best of all worlds what would your marriage look like in 10 years if there had been no affair?

I think you will easily see the reason for those questions. You might ask your W those questions as well.

I look forward to your response as I suspect it will lead to an interesting discussion on here and with your W.

God Bless,

JL