my story..
together since 17 years old
19 years together
12 years of marriage
3 kids
im an only child that mom always took care of
she is from a divorced family and swore never to divorce
so i am a taker
she is a giver
she gave everything
but i didnt return the favor
we never ARGUED. i always got my way.
she never fought for what she really wanted..
so i realize i have hurt her by my decisions but most times her opinions were voiced just by saying well i want this and i say well how about this.. and she almost always did my way...
well fast forward to 3 months ago she broke down and told me she was unhappy
week later she cheated on my with her best friends ex husband
week after i found out by checking here texts and me and her friend both in disbelief busted her on the affair.
from then we seperated for 5 weeks spending 3 days each w kids at home and 1 day as family day(everyone together) as not to be so tramatic on the kids.

then i told her to either move back in or were done.
she moved in
now she says she is unsure on working on our mariage because she at this point does not think she can be in love with me again...
well i have been having trust issues and starting arguments about things. but have come to the realization that was not helping and i need to do something else. i have converted over to paying attention to her and trying to show love for her. physical affection is not really there, she will let me hug her but she doesnt really care, as she loves me but is not in love with me.... well
am i doing the right thing by trying to show her love?
obviously alot of people say kick her out but i am a realist and i feel that now i understand that there IS A PROBLEM, that it can be fixed, she knows that she needs to be more opinionated also... i feel every marriage can be fixed if 2 people want to fix it so what do i do?????

i also have printed out and read the basic concepts emotional needs and most the other subjects. she read some but then hasnt revisited it..

thanks for any help....

Welcome to the club no one wants to be in Marriage Builders can work if you both can get on board...

a few suggestions:

start by clicking the notify mod button and have this thread moved to Surviving an Affair, that's where you will get the help you need the fastest.

Has she ENDED the affair with No Contact? (NC)

I've got some reading to do for you, the vets will get here soon enough, until then, move your thread and ...

Start Here

Please listen to the vets!! THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!! When they say do something, JUST DO IT! SO many members don't want to, and it really is needed to be done. Have faith in the vets!

Best of luck!

mods notified

the affair
the guy as i said was her best friends ex. he started by talking to her about his ex and the exes lying about him...
then they just started talking.
then for about 3 months they were texting.(enter the EA)
they met up 3 times she said
he needed her as someone to talk to about his divorce etc..
she needed attention and love..
1st 2nd meetings were just to talk....
3rd was dinner and back to his place where she succummoned to his love and had a PA
she totally admits to the one time PA and told me everything that happened unwillingly..he made her feel love yada yada he did not force her etc..
i am at the point i am over the anger of the PA and EA and am willing to put it in the past as there is nothing i can do to change what has happened only fix the future...

as far as no contact she admitted to seeing him at a gas station and going up to talk to him and i have suspicion when were were seperated she went and saw him which is why i said you either with him or your with me....
and ever since she has been with me or had the kids with her for 2 weeks now..

after stopping the seperation part we were sleeping in the same bed until i told her one night she came over to my side and put her head on my chest(while she was asleep).. she said i dont want to be doing things to lead you on that this might work out and hurt you more. so im going to start sleeping on the couch.... she does come in the morning sometimes and lay with me while we talk about stuff sometimes relationship stuff sometimes about kids or whatever..

Ok, she has GOT TO GO NC with him NO CHOICE. It will take me forever to find all the links you need, so just hit that link I sent above, and start reading. TONS of good info in there.

If she does not go completely NC with him, the affair is not ended. Read carefully about exposure as well, this needs to be blown wide open.

I'm sorry you are in that boat. I understand being at that point of wanting to just move on, but until she ends this thing totally, you just can't fix the marriage. It's impossible.

Read about plan A as well, find out her emotional needs, and lay it on as best you can, without DJ's AO's and SD, those are killers (love busters).

Once the thread gets moved, the vets will jump in, I"m still learning

Plan A....read that first...and you will find sleeping on the couch is NOT what you want to do.

Does she know about MB? For right now, keep it quiet, I think the vets will tell you to start snooping and dig deep. You need to KNOW for SURE that this affair is ended.

she only knows of marriage builders from what i have printed out and we read some together and she read some...
she hasnt been on the site and i will keep it that way...

im not sleeping on the couch she is



I have snooped her cell
and for 3 weeks there were no calls or texts or emails to the guy she had the A with.
but she is suspicious of me now because i asked her about something...and has laid off texting lately and she knows i looked at the bill with the phone calls on it..
she confronted me about tracking her phone but i denied it...
the confrontation started when i asked her to call me when she was at her moms (which was confirmed) but
she left her moms for a bit. i think to see her ex friend to go out and talk again... she denies that she went out with any guy and i do believe her but she wont tell me who she did go out with... most likely because i told her i did not want her talking to her exfriend because that would get her closer to the friends exhusband which she had the affair with

still secrets....

secrets=affair is still going on

You have to be better snoop, use help from the forum Operation Investigate.

Oh, and don't be fooled, the affair was already going on when she told you she's unhappy, not week later.

Yes I agree I need to snoop better
I agree the EA was going on before she told me she was unhappy
And yes the secret of her going out has me curious whether or not the affair is still going on.
Time to snoop better....
I have been trying to be better at meeting her emotional
Needs and showing her love, is that the right move at this point?

Yes, being a best husband possible is part of plan A. Just do not forget the other part of that plan (find evidence and expose).

iwanttosaveit - If you're in plan A, and I assume you are, then yes, you should be trying to meet as many emotional needs as possible. The key is to do that without any expectations from your end - in other words, don't expect her to have an ephihany of sorts and suddenly fall madly in love with you. Come here to vent when you get frustrated! Also, no matter what, YOU DO NOT MOVE out of the house. If your WW decides to move, she moves out. Also, the kids should stay with you, since she's busy trying to relive those carefree younger days. Not exactly a great role model for the kids.

She's in the fog, so watch her actions and ignore the words coming out of her mouth for now. WS lie and they get very good at it. My WW is a posterchild for this behavior. Before the A, honesty, integrity and personal responsibility were extremely important to her. Now, this same person lies to me a lot; she thinks she's clever in that she tends to build lies based on truth. For example, she had to travel out of town for her job, and that part is true. However, she claims that she had to fly out on Saturday and my snooping revealed that she lied about that. I suspect she flew out on Monday and spent the weekend at the beach with OM. The same OM that she claims not to be seeing anymore, due to my exposure, etc. Yeah, right.

Oh, and chances are that plan A'ing won't kill the A. It does sometimes, but usually not. Just be prepared. Start getting your ducks in a row for a worst case scenario - start game planning - what's most important to you? I would assume the kids, but after that what are your priorities? house? retirement? savings? could you survive on your income alone? what if you had to pay child support? how would you handle the kids by yourself?

The other nuts and bolts - what are the divorce laws in your state? Is it a no-fault state? If it's a fault-state, can you file under adultery? If so, what does that 'buy' you? For example, in my state, if you can prove A, then alimony is automatically off the table. That's the only real tangible benefit, but it's a good one. The D process is also sped up. Know enough about them to understand the 'typical' outcome. That way you have knowledge in your head to counter any fogbabble coming out of her mouth. My WW told me for months that she could take me to the 'cleaners' for alimony and child support. I knew it was BS, so it was easier for me to let it roll off. She finally figured out the alimony bit about two months ago - probably when the OM was seeing a lawyer.

I'm sorry you're here. I'm only about 5 months ahead of you, but I've learned a ton here. The vets will help to guide you. This is a time for you to gather intel on your WW and to educate yourself in several areas. After you've gathered as many FACTS as possible, then you can start processing it all. What do YOU want? What will YOU accept? What things are non-negotiable?

You're right, it'll take both of you to try and fix this mess. Sometimes that happens, and sometimes it doesn't. She needs to be WILLING to do a lot of work - if she isn't, then you're probably done in the short term. That's where I find myself now, my WW isn't willing to work on us and I can't do it by myself. I tried to convince her for three months or so, but that didn't work. Therefore, I the only logical choice is to let go and that's one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I'm still struggling with it. My head knows it's the right answer, but my heart feels differently. It ain't easy. I hope your WW comes around quickly, but regardless, start planning YOUR future!

Mr recon thanks for the info I am in plan A
I have caught her exposed it to her family and friends
And my family. They all know what's up

Andy. Thanks for your input as it is hittting home today especially
I know I should not move out as I will seek custody of my 3 great kids
Even last night I stayed home and didn't go to softball and
The bar as to show and not provide more evidence of me being gone and socially drinking.

This morning she told me she was done. She says she doesn't love me
And can't see it going anywhere. The A has been over for a month after the exposing, she says and she wants a Divorce.
I pleaded for 3 months to work on our issues and to see where things are.
She agreed but still is going to consult a lawyer.
So I have 3 months....

Time to learn some things!

This is typical wayward fog babble, don't listen.



More than likely, the affair is still on but moved further underground.

Lost n time. Thanks
Ya I know its babble and me listening to her then
Telling her I know we can work on it sometimes upsets her

Maybe I need to talk less about fixing and start fixing

She says she has suffered years of me bossing her around and
She is just at the point she doesn't care...
So I told her but I do and am willing to work on the issues
And I haven't been able to because I have been hurting so much
Over the last 3 months that I couldn't make any changes

Ex of her do anything to make me happy;
She used a storage unit for junk because I told her
She had too much junk when we went to move from one house to
Another house. She had the unit for 5 years and never told
Me in fear of upsetting me. Because she wanted to make me happy

But now she has given her all...
I reminded her this am I will be here forever if she gives me a
Chance to fix the issues and work on our relationship

Thanks guys for being here!!!

Was looking at the books and since we have kids do you think
His needs her needs with children would be best?

Wow!!! WW recorded mrs doubtfire to watch with the kids
DON'T freakin watch that movie. I had to leave the room 10
Minutes in the wife tells robin williams she's done and wants a divorce and since I just heard that the day before yesterday I am now a complete wreck!!!

I hope you're doing ok iwanttosaveit. Have you been reading up on MB concepts?

I'm not sure about having her read the books at this point but hopefully a vet will chime in here.

My suggestion is to do some snooping and confirm if the affair is over or not.

ITA with Lost. iwanttosaveit, have you been snooping? Tell us what's been happening since you posted last. What snooping have you done? Consider that she has a second, hidden 'affair phone' that she uses to contact the OM. Also, I strongly suggest that you slap a GPS unit on her car to see where she goes when she's alone. A VAR in the car would be a good idea, as well.

Please don't threaten exposure to her. I suspect the A is still on and has gone underground. Giving you 3 months to 'work' on the M is throwing you a bone while she continues her affair. If she was truly committed to working on the M, she wouldn't be consulting an attorney.

Iwant,

Listen VERY carefully please:

1) IGNORE her fogbabble about "it's over, I�m done, can�t see it going anywhere�. Stick to the plan and don�t let her throw you off.

2) BE SKEPTICAL of her claim that the affair �was over a month before exposure�. More than likely, the affair has just been moved �underground� or �on hold� for a while. She knows you are �on to her�, so her & OM are going to be extra careful in covering their tracks now.

3) SNOOP like crazy. Read the �Operation Investigate� forum and follow the suggestions. I strongly recommend you hire a PI as well. You will find the evidence I�m sure. Make copies.

4) CUT OFF financial support for the affair as much as possible. Do not fund or pay for anything she uses to contact/see the OM or any of their activities (restaurants, bar bills, hotel charges, cellphones, etc.)

5) EXPOSE (or re-expose) widely and without any advance warning to EVERYONE. I noticed you said you had previously exposed to friends & family. Do it again with an avalanche of truth and evidence. But, you didn�t mention exposure vs. the OM (his friends, family, work, SO/wife?). Is he married? Find out and expose big time to his wife, if married, or to his gf, if not.

6) While you are preparing and doing the above (which represents the �stick� portion only of Plan A), you need to �carrot� her as much as possible�as difficult as it is. This means eliminate LoveBusters and attempt to meet her key ENs. Be the strong yet loving man she fell for in the first place and be a great father to your kids. Understand that she probably won�t acknowledge or reciprocate your efforts while she�s still wayward�your goal here is to �plant a seed� in her mind of the type of husband and relationship she finds attractive.

Stay here, keep posting, and stay strong.

Iwanttosaveit, the basic issue is that she is still in contact with the OM. Do you have a GPS on her car? What spy techniques do you have? Do you have a keylogger on her cell phone? Some come with a GPS. [eblaster, mobilestealth, or flexispy are good ones]

I would do that in addition to exposing this affair in a more comprehensive way. I would expose to any children over age 4 TODAY. Tell them about their mother's affair and her plans to break up their family so she can pursue her affair with this scumbag. Let them know you are doing everything in your power to save their family. Your wife can then explain to them why she is breaking up their family, just so she can chase some loser.

Secondly, go see if you can find the OM's facebook page. His parents and family members need to be notified of his affair with a married woman. This will be a very powerful exposure because it will ruin any future hope your wife has with the OM. She won't be welcomed into their family.

I would follow that up with a face to face meeting with this scumbag. Tell him you will be fighting for your marriage and ask him what his intentions are with your wife.

Let her know, in no uncertain terms, that you AGREE this will go to divorce if she doesn't end her affair. [and she has not ended it - that is a lie] You should DEMAND that she end her affair now and do so with a no contact letter. She claims her affair is over, then let her put her money where her mouth is by sending a letter. [I will post a template below]


This will not help you unless there is a PLAN. If you are going to work on your issues, you don't need TIME, you need a PLAN. Nothing will be different in 3 months without a plan, except that her affair will be more entrenched and you will be more exhausted.

My suggestion would be to paint a very ugly, bleak picture of where this will lead in order to give your wife a REALITY check. Depending on your state, you might be able to file on grounds of adultery. If so, tell her that if this does lead to divorce, that you will be countersuing on grounds of adultery. You will have the OM subpeonaed into court along with his email and cell phone records to give testimony of his affair under oath. Her email and text records will be subpoanaed under discovery. Tell her you will be using her adultery as grounds in court to get full possession of the home and primary custody of the children. SHE WILL HAVE TO MOVE OUT.

And this is REAL IMPORTANT -----> let her know you will NOT be her "friend" if this leads to divorce! <-----REAL IMPORTANT

When you tell her this, you will see surprise and shock on her face. This is because she has fantasized that she will REPLACE you with the OM. Her plan is to seamlessly move you out and move him in. In order to achieve this, she needs you to be her "friend," "for the children" of course. Your goal will be to BLOW UP that little fantasy by exposing to your children [which means they won't ever accept your new replacement] and painting a very ugly drawn out, painful divorce.

Find out what your laws are in your state [on the internet] and don't think that just because you live in a no fault state that you can't do this. Most no fault states do take adultery into account when determining child visitation and settlement.

If her affair is really over, she should have no issue sending this letter to him today:

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX