I�m not a fan of an arrangement where you have to see the ex spouse regularly in order to exchange the kids. It is much better to simply pick them up from school or daycare on your days and she does the same on hers. This is easier on you and it is easier on the kids.

You�ll also be trying to move on with your life eventually and it would be good to have full free weekends.

I get what you�re saying about the kids. You�ll eventually adjust to �the new normal� and look forward to both your free weekends and your kid weekends.

Part of your healing will involve a time when you can�t stand the sight of your ex and don�t wish to interact with her in any way. That�s why picking them up at school is the best.

So chew on that and see what you think.

help,

I'm warming again to your schedule: seeing the kids for two days one week, seeing them for five days the next week.

I saw my WW today for two hours. I've been in a blue mood since. Her transformation -- it's really a transmogrification -- makes me sad. She struck me as a shallow, vain, quick tempered, forgetful phony. She has an iPad, a stylish hair cut, wears heels, and is a cold person. She's the post-modern woman. I can't believe it. She used to be the opposite of those things. It's weird, but I love and cherish the old her even more. She was a pretty, down to earth, all-American, playful, warm woman. Seeing her like this day after day would be painful.

In short, I feel like TryingEverything about his wife -- alternately disgusted with my WW (or in his case, XWW) and enchanted by my old wife.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

The post below is actually from MichaelJan. I lost my password. But now it's found.

How did mediation go? What is she expecting from you?

Except for the fact that WW was present, the mediation went well. I heeded the advice dispensed by you and Jeffery Leving: Don't interrupt; don't get angry; don't be argumentative; be gracious; be charming; be deferential.

I let WW talk first. I didn't argue over petty stuff, such as the times she took away our kids. I made my case for why I should get a 50-50 custody arrangement: WW can exercise and pursue her career while I take care of our daughters; and our daughters can receive faith formation, go the park and pool, and attend practices.

I don't know what WW is expecting from me. She shot me a look of incredulity when I said that I am interested in getting primary legal custody of our daughters. But I got the sense she's open to a 50-50 arrangement. I don't know. Our next mediation session is in a couple of weeks.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

You could request joint legal custody but that you get the final say in case of a disagreement.

This was granted by the judge in my case. She gets the final say in school and discipline issues. I get the final say in religious ones. We have equal say in medical issues.

You have to make your case for those.

The fact that I wasn't from here and was putting my whole life together and had a limited amount of friends here was a factor in my case which worked against me. I only lived here for about 2 years when we went to court.

Things are much different now and I think I'd likely come out on top of most of those things, but it's not worth the expense.

Things are settled down now.

It will really help if you live close enough that taking the kids to school won't be an issue for you or if you can show you have quick access to the kids' daycare.

I went through the same thing. It actually helped me in the long-term because she had hardened her heart to the point where she transformed into a different person in every way. Karma sucks though, and I guarantee you will watch or hear of her getting hit by that ol' karma bus. It might be sooner; it might be later. But it always arrives. Because in order to change her life out of selfish indulgence mode, she has to accept responsibility for what she did in her heart. And that is incredibly difficult for some people to do. The alternative is creating a new, prideful, person. That's the route my WXW took, and pregnancy, bankruptcy, and loss of friends and family are just some of her consequences *I* know about.

It'll be better. Hang in there buddy.

Best wishes,
Arpeggi

Thank you, Arpeggi. I appreciate your support and thoughts. Just this morning, I thought of my troubles and recalled your last two lines.

Funny you should mention Karma. I think a lot about we Catholics used to call, and still do to an extent, "the natural law": what goes up must come down; if you wanna play, you gotta pay. My WW has experienced some bad effects of karma or the natural law. Her apartment was robbed. She's gotten a bunch of speeding tickets. That's not as bad as your XW, though.

Then there is the real reckoning: the day the OM dumps her. When will it happen? That's the question I can't answer. I say after three years, as does Dr. H. But I don't know.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

I had another mediation session today with WW. The good news is that we worked out our minor difference, our kids' schedule during the holidays. The bad news is that WW mostly was calm and collected. She didn't really seem in the fog. She didn't raise her voice, get upset, or interrupt. She struck me as perfectly happy that she was breaking up our family. Does she realize what she's doing? Is she a woman who's met her "soulmate" and is moving forward with her life while I cling to the false hope of saving our family?

Don't get me wrong; I'm giving our family another 14 months at least, the time at which Plan B will have been two years. But her conduct was deflating.

Our next mediation session is in two weeks. We'll discuss custody of the kids' regular schedule. The reality bus might hit her then or during our custody hearing in September.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

MichaelJan - Be careful here. WW and I settled all of this relatively calmly. The reality didn't hit when it was negotiated and it hasn't hit since she moved out mid June. Now, the complicating factor is that DS has been with family across the country for a month. So we haven't 'tested' the new agreement. However, so far, none of this appears to have had an impact on WW. She has her house, the OM and her life. I'm left to pick up the pieces of mine - slowly but surely. My suggestion to you - start building your own life as hard as that is and as harsh as that sounds. It's easier said than done - my heart is heavy too and I wish WW would return - but I can't control her. Hang in there MJ!

Andy
where have you been?

Stretch, LOL - I'm still here and in plan B now. WW is still wayward and now living in 'her house' and I believe that she's still seeing OM. There's no chink in her armor, so I'm trying to separate from her emotionally. Sucks, but there's nothing left to do.

Hi AndyM,

Thanks for your insight. I like your approach and sympathize with your sitch. You are doing the right thing by your son and WW. It's just a matter of time before each one realizes this.

What's the name of your thread? I looked for but couldn't find it.

I agree that building a new life is key, as Dr. H. recommends. I am a changed man. I am more sensitive to others, especially to women. I listen more actively. I exercise a lot more, as I run six times a week and do pushups regularly. I pray and go to church more. And I look for a job more strategically and pay more attention to my finances. I'm more disciplined and caring. It's just that the big things haven't changed. I'm still out of work and still separated from my wife and kids!

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

WW filled out an interrogatory and her lawyer sent it to me. Now my lawyer wants me to go over it with him. One problem: he's asking for his retainer fee, of $2,500.

I prefer to fill the form out on my own and keep the money. Here's why: I know how the custody game is played; I might settle with WW in mediation; and I don't want to ask family members for the money. What do the vets think about my plan?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

Think of what you have to lose. Is it worth $2500 to protect it?

Do you know as much as a lawyer?

How long you have been out of work?

Can't you have your lawyer get WW to pay legal costs just the way a woman does when the husband is the sole bread winner?

The Road,

You probably are right. I have a lot to lose. Seeing my kids every other weekend would be a disaster for our family. My WW's sense of entitlement would only increase; and the relationship between my daughters and I would deteriorate.

No, I don't know as much as a lawyer.

I've been out of work since February.

Can I get my lawyer for WW to pay my legal costs? I will look into the question.

Thanks for the insight.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

Pay the retainer. $2500 is nothing and you�re going to end up paying a lot more to fight for custody. Do not assume anything in a custody fight.

The interrogatories allow you to air out your side of things and allow you to tackle any allegations she may try to make. You can file your own set of interrogatories.

I can tell you that my ex objected to answering certain questions on the ground of �relevance� even though the questions were indeed relevant.

You can also force her to answer questions on your end, which she may not like answering, but be prepared for �Objection. Relevance� to be an standard answer for things she doesn�t wish to address.

$2500 is nothing for a retainer. You�re going to spend much more than that.

Per TheRoad's suggestion, I called my lawyer today to ask if my WW could pay my retainer. My legal service plan had expired, I said, but it will pay you for your services. He hit the floor. "What do you mean your plan is terminated?! You know you're supposed to pay!" he screamed. "I think you're paying games with me!" Flustered, I reassured him that I was not paying games. My understanding, I told him, is that my legal service plan will pay him.

Then I talked with a representative for the plan. She assured that it would pay for my first 15 hours of representation and would give me a discount of the rest. In other words, my lawyer will get paid. I told this to him. He wasn't convinced. He threatened to withdraw representation. He said he'll talk with a representative from the legal plan and respond to me.

What the hell? I thought my lawyer was on my side. He acts like I'm going to steal his money. I talked with a friend about my imbroglio today, and I came up with a conclusion. Unless the person is your friend, assume they are looking out for their own bottom line. Man oh man.

Here's my question for vets: If my lawyer withdraws representation, am I in a worse position than before?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

Hi TheRoad,

I like your suggestion that my WW pay for my legal costs. How might I get her to do that? Any idea?

Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

My third mediation session is tomorrow. The subject will be custody. I will make two requirements: I get more time with the kids on Saturdays and the OM cannot be around our daughters. In exchange, I can give OW a couple more days on the holidays. While she probably will reject my offer, she fears her lawyer's expenses. Any thoughts as to what WW would agree?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless, again)
Her: WW, 34
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful