Is the OM married??

OMG, this is SO IMPORTANT especially for BHs to WWs.

Virtually ALL emotionally-addicted WWs think (as part of their fogbabble, delusional, completely unrealistic affair-fantasy) that divorce is going to result in:

�unending emotional & sexual fulfillment with her �soulmate� loser of a lover
�any/all kids involved will be �resilient� and unconditionally love her and their �new blended family�
�her replaced ex-husband will �come to accept� her betrayals and remain her �friend�

NONE of the above is true and make sure she clearly disabuse her of the illusion that you will remain �her friend� and �amicable co-parent� if she insists upon continued cheating/divorce.

DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER "remaining friends" in any way with an unrepentant WW and make sure she knows that will not change.

WOW didnt get any responses for a few days then a ton....
let me start at the first and work my way through
But first let me say THANK YOU GUYS!!!

First she is a passive person so she would rather avoid confrontation and is trying to avoid our relationship because she doesnt see a future yes i know its fog babble and yes i know i should not listen to her but need to show her there is a reason to stay and something to look forward to Carrot stick....

Snooping yes and not letting her outta my sight unless she has the kids then i verify w kids on whats up she been spending alot of time with her mom obviously talking (mom being divorced twice and the third husband passed 6 years ago and looking for a new guy) not the best support sys for a good marriage....

FYI spybubble FTW been very interesting knowing whats up learning how to react to things texted is a learning curve without showing your hand.... texts phone calls emails etc.. all clear of the other guy and it was for a few weeks before i came on here. i watch her like a hawk have gone through her car when she isnt looking to check for a second phone but she really is not tech savvy so i seriously dont think she has one. i truly believe at this point that it is over but the snooping will continue..

i will be gpsing her car as she turned off the gps on her phone at one point.. and its locked so i cant get into it now..

she is not commited on working on the marriage thats the key problem by reading texts she agreed to go to a marriage counselor which we have been doing but she told her sis that maybe he will realize its over...
counselor told her its not over LOL
but she doesnt see a future yet....

Best Quote she Said...
You can even Fall in Love with an OGRE if there is good Communication Affection and Love...

im working on my love busters and meeeting her EMs as we speak biting my tongue on confrontation is hard but ive learned to do it cause in the end its the best thing..

The OM has no facebook and he has been exposed to his ex wife and her whole family is flippin pissed but he has since made amends w/ the ex wife.. as she needs him.. whatever not my family. they know whats up...

illinois is a no fault state unfortunately....

getting her to do anything for the relationship at this point is tough and she would not send a letter or say that she is committed to this relationship at this point she has remorse over the affair and no speaking up but she doesnt see a future so would not say or write that she is willing to work on her marriage as she wants out.. she is basically heading for the door and i need to show her she has a good option standing here..

The OM is not married he is the ex of my WWs Friend (how they met)

DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER "remaining friends" in any way with an unrepentant WW and make sure she knows that will not change.

i let her know this the other day when she got the mower stuck.. i told her now you know if we get divorced i wont be running over here to help you fix [censored] and get your mower stuck and stuff.. i guess i did not go as far to say we wont be Friends which i still need to do...

thank again

currently marriage counselor has talked to her on her own and sees no real progress yet, so as MB as said time to carrot stick and work on showing her what i offer...
so she also had me watch fireproof and reading The Love Dare.
interesting... 40 day plan of basically doing things and teaching you to pay attention to her to show her you are the man that can be there for her so she will maybe hold off on the divorce so we can work on our issues....

Iwant,

Good work on the snooping and exposing you have done. Keep snooping to ensure that the affair is truly over (and stays over) and not just "on temporary hold" for a while. Breaking the affair is the absolutely vital first hurdle and hopefully that�s happening here. If she is in complete NC with her OM (and STAYS in NC), you have a decent shot at recovering your marriage, despite all the negative �no hope� stuff she is saying. Emotionally-addicted WW affairs usually (�prematurely�) end when the OM dumps the WW, not the other way around.

Your exposure might have scared him away to look for less-messy targets. Maybe he, since he�s single, met some other woman. Maybe he was about through with the thrill of the fling anyway. The point of all this is that your W is probably in a state of emotional withdrawal from the OM right now. I know it hurts to hear this, but in the withdrawal state she will be missing and longing for the �connection� she had with the OM, especially if she was the dump-ee. Remain vigilant because she is highly vulnerable to resuming contact if opportunity permits and ANY contact re-sets the �withdrawal clock� back to zero and threatens to re-ignite the affair anew. Dr. H states that it takes 3-6 months of complete, continuous NC to emerge from withdrawal.

During this period, she will be also withdrawn from you as she �grieves� the loss of the OM. As difficult as it is, you must avoid LBs as much as possible even though it makes you hurt & angry & frustrated to know that she is missing him. Meet her key ENs as much as you can in a strong and caring way. Understand that until she emerges from the withdrawal state, she isn�t likely to reciprocate much positivity back to you�remain strong, upbeat, and self-confident (i.e. ATTRACTIVE). It will be a challenge to make major LoveBank deposits to her account while she is so unreceptive, but do the best you can to add to it little by little. Her Bank�s balance is very low right now which is another reason why she feels �hopeless� and that �it�s over anyway�.

I hope the MC you are seeing follows MB principles. If not, switch to one that does. My concern is that many counselors are big on talking out conflicts but really don�t know squat about restoring romantic love in the aftermath of an affair. What you wrote about �maybe he will realize its over� through counseling scares me a bit because its common for WSs to just go through the motions via counseling as a means of �letting him down easy� and �proving that it�s really over�. Preconceived notions like this tend to become self-fulfilling; you get out of something only what you are willing to put in. She really needs someone to help her understand that the withdrawal is self-limited and will pass with continued NC & that restoring romantic feelings between you is easily doable.

Hoping for the best�

And what is her plan for you to fall back in love? See, communication cannot cause someone to fall in love, but affection CAN. But it takes much more than just that one emotional need. What it takes to fall in love is 20+ hours per week of undivided attention meeting these 4 intimate emotional needs: sexual fulfillment, affection, conversation and rec companionship. Couples can learn to be great communicators and conflict resolvers and still get divorced because they are not in love. Couples who are in love, though, do not get divorced.

Since fallng in love can't happen by accident, what is the counselors plan to achieve this?

yes her plan is to teach me to start showing my ww that there is something still here
here are the basics to the steps.. its a 40 day plan

www.shenzhoufellowship.org/main2/files/old/.../TheLoveDare.pdf

oh and trust me i am still reading through the MB web site and learning alot from it....
by the way just put on desktopshark.. Cool....

learning to bite my tongue and not give digs about trusting her is hard.. yesterday i bought her flowers and a pair of earings she said thank you and her one postive thing of the day was knowing someone was thinking about her... i just hope i can keep my cool and not start doing love busters... as i feel i am trying to grasp the whole concept of actually working on a relationship which used to be so easy in the beginning (dating)

link no worky dont know how
but google this and it will be up first

40 day love dare pdf

tell me your thoughts...

My thoughts - Marriage Builders works better than the Love Dare.

The Love Dare to me was more about unconditional love and acceptance. MB is a plan and a roadmap with lots of proven track record behind it to heal marriages.

I did the Love Dare about the time we found MB. It was great doing it, but it didn't do near as much for our relationship as MBs did.

I would follow the advice you've been given here, follow the MB program, and try that before I tried the Love Dare.

i kind of agree love dare is more just the beginning step
as i like the steps that you take to show her love which i admit i have lacked and i have taken for granted and something i definietly need to work on casue if she doesnt see a reason to try then its done.. love dare is kind of like plan a except the snooping which im doing anyways...
i put it this way to my wife a few weeks ago Ya you say the affair is over BUT
it really doesnt matter I am still competeing against his love or competeing against the love that he had given you which is where i am at i need to learn to show her the love that i have lacked doing and the love dare is a good start.. but i agree there is more to it which is why i am here...

I think of the Love Dare as a framework for plan A. Think about it. You are trying to meet needs and eliminate your Love Busters. For the most part, that's what the Love Dare is. It's a formalized plan to do that.

However, it doesn't address things such as UA, or Extraordinary Protections.

So the Love Dare is not a replacement for MB, but it's one possible framework to perform plan A. The time is about right. I think if most work at that for 40 days and don't see movement, it's probably time to move towards plan B. Guys may do the 40 days twice, ladies, probably one lap through the Love Dare and that's largely your plan A.

Season to taste as all situations are different. Certainly there is also exposure of the affair, which I don't think the Love Dare covers.


Other thoughts?

If I'm allowed to post this. I don't think it competes with MB. Here is the corrected link to the above mentioned PDF

http://www.shenzhoufellowship.org/main2/files/old/SpecialTopics/TheLoveDare.pdf

The Love Dare is about unconditional love and acceptance of your spouse. I don't think it's even in the same class as MB and I don't think they really can go hand in hand.

I learned very little from the Love Dare, and I had the book and the study manual. I did enjoy it and found it kind of fun and we did learn some things. But, I believe MB is the far better program with a plan and a track record.

The only other book I learned much from was Love & Respect. It goes along with MB but is more religous and has more steroetypes for men and women, which I find MB to be head and shoulders above the other programs because MB is willing to admit that my #1 need might be SF, that's a foreign concept to have a wife with a high need for SF in many other programs.

While I've read the entire library selection of marriage, relationships, parenting, and sex books the only books I own are 4 of Dr Harley's MB books.

well alot i think depends on the issues in the marriage also...
my issues are being selfish and taking her for granted and generally not truly caring about her opinion..
Yes... been doing some real thinking...
like i said before love dare i feel is sort of plan A minus dealing with the affair.. it is a true step by step day by day learning tool as each day brings on a new challenge. which for me is great i love plans and steps to do...
now it is def not for everyone but so far i have found it interesting... i am studying everything on MB too so

oh making her a chefs salad tonight I think that was day 3s dare.. do something nice..

and i have still found no evidence of the affair continuing but still snooping as i will spend alot of time doing i feel...
thanks guys and girls!

But if you don't deal with the afair, expose, and kill it, then your marriage won't recover.

The Love Dare doesn't deal with how to heal from infidelity or how to heal your marraige. It preaches sacrifice, unconditional love, and things that just don't work.

Sure, if you have a great relationship within MB standrads the love dare can be kind of cool, but many of it's foundations conflict with MB.