"Pretty lonely though isn't it? Trying to carry it all alone now?"

thread.

Adios . . .

Well said. I think I'm going to join you at this point. The "BS fog" seems to be strong with this one. Thick as pea-soup. Frankly, at this point I don't think he's come here for advice - I think he's come here hoping to find someone that agrees with the approach that he's taking, flawed as it is, and we are the ones in fault if we don't agree with it. And the fact that not one, NOT ONE, former WS or BS here agrees with his approach doesn't seem to be making one iota of difference!

I think we all have a good idea of how such "active ignorance" about dealing with one's marital situation usually turns out in the end. The story may have a few minor twists, but the main plot hardly EVER changes.

Between MouthInMotion and NeverGetsIt, this place has now been trashed.

Thanks to the few of you that actually responded to my queries and showed a little decency and respect.

OWH,

Stick around, man... They are trying to help. Let me explain why they are taking the tact they are. Maybe it can help you see where they are coming from...


There have been hundreds (probably thousands) of posters who come through here who have been betrayed in a very similar way to you, all at various stages.. There seems to be a type of fog that comes over us as betrayed spouses when we find out there was infidelity (emotional or physical), and despite our resolve, we aren't always thinking clearly. The hundreds that have come through here are more than anecdotal evidence, they are proof of it. Additionally, history has shown that there is almost always "more to the story" than what we've been told.

This is all they are saying. logically, there are some things that really stand out in your story (granted we don't have all the details.

1. there was more than a passing friendship between your w and the OM

2. It is reasonable to assume that if they were planning sex, some kind of physical contact had taken place before (kissing, hugging, petting)indicating that some kind of physical sexual contact had taken place previously (even if it wasn't intercourse).

3. One usually doesn't just "plan" sex unless something was stated between the two parties... Maybe between married couples, but between A partners, there is usually planning

4. Why not just buy condoms in Vegas? Why bring them from home? That indicates they had probably been discussing it and made plans fairly well in advance.

Emotional A's can be more devastating than PA's... This guy was hitting on your wife. possibly preying on her. He has a wife who is possibly oblivious... Notifying her is not only for you, but for her protection as well.

All that said. You have very strong qualities that are good. What everyone is asking is that you direct them in a way that experience and time have proven to be most beneficial.

Stick around with us and interact. try some of it. It works

CV

Just use the ignore option OWH if you want then but realize most of these approaches are shotguning the problem and assuming the worse

They have to and like cv said we many have seen it so many times

Do you see or agree what I asked you about in what is key in the marriage? As in passion and desire?

Old War Horse:
I share your high opinion of your wife or almost wayward wife or however you wish to portray that circumstance.
Just know that its okay to post here when you are frustrated, hurt, angry at your wife or angry at yourself. That old saying about opinions are like _______, everyone has one? Well, you are the important one here.
I hope an pray that you are a better man than I, that two years from now you will not want the details and have a wife unwilling to provide them. Maybe you can block it out.
Assume the best.
In my case, I have had my wife Swear on the Bible, Swear holding her wedding ring in her hand that things did not happen that I actually have tape recordings of her talking to a friend about the fact that they did. And my experience sadly is not uncommon at all. You alone have a sense of the level of honesty of your wife. You alone have to judge the situation. Your psyche may be able to put it past you. Some of us can (I suspect a minority) and some of us cannot.
Whatever you do, meet those emotional needs of hers and also ask her to meet yours and don't be shy (just gentle) about it.
The posters here you have struggled with may have there own pain. I sure do. And those pains create our reality and perspective. If you can find empathy for your wife, please consider finding empathy for those who want to help you even if there words or approach offends you.
Empathy for your wife is very important.
Her empathy for your feelings now is perhaps the most important thing of all. Her empathy could lead her to have told you the truth or in a well meaning rationalization to avoid telling you the truth. You are somewhat the judge.
BUT, you are also a victim.
Your trust was betrayed. The only antecdote is total honesty not just future transparency.
Burying the "details" of the condoms may not be in either of your best interests.... even if you both think that it is.
If your wife does not fully disclose to you the truth, if your wife is unwilling to call this man's wife and admit the truth to her (you should not need to call)....
she has not learned from the experience. If the situation were reversed and you were the potential wayward would she want to know? Just things for you to think about.
But... YOU are miles ahead of many here in many ways. I just worry that as you bury things that have not been fully addressed that one day you will just explode. I don't want that to happen to you. I care. Many of us here do. We really care. So maybe I am projecting my experience on you - maybe others are. BUT we are telling you... We all Care.

Blessings,
Hurting Turkey

Just in case you come back I will leave this last post.

Since you are pleased with the results of opening up with your wife you must realize that the concepts here work. Like I had said before you are going forward now with your W and that must be part of what pleases you also.

It does seem you have a problem in understanding what is behind what others say to you. You really got defensive when I asked you that question and took it as a personal challange to your intelligence and integrity? It was a rhetorical question aimed at your original question of how long this would take. I already figured you as capable and willing to stand alone if nessesary, just wanted to point out that while you processed this threat of betrayal, it had to mean you felt very alone.

Best wishes and hope you recover and read here also about the many intelligent and sensitive people who have had to struggle with betrayal, adultry, and just plain stubborness from screwed up people. Even if your pride won't let you admit it, the truth in these tools on this site will help you if you use them.

Glad you are showing your wife you appreciate her BTW it seems that is going to be one of your breakthroughs in relationships. You can take that any way you want as sarcastic or just plain truth, it doesn't matter, I dont care I just hope you use it for Gods sake, and I forgive you ahead of time for being defensive and implying you might need some help in that.

Good luck and God Bless

Vindication!

Verified that, in fact, the OM offered up by my wife was a red herring. The actual OM was, as I suspected, someone much closer to her with whom she works on a regular basis.

****EDIT****

OWH,

Glad you got the good news. Glad you know it all. Glad that you are still so young that you think you know it all.

JL

OWH, I am sorry you have to go through this. The posters here have not attempted to hurt you. The simple fact is that they have tried hard to make you see that there is a tested plan for dealing with your situation. If the advice was to speak with OMW, well, now you have your next step if the this new OM has a wife. And now that you know that your wife has the capacity to lie directly to you, you really don't have vindication sir. You have a tragedy and your anger is misplaced when aimed at anyone who has tried to speak with you.
You don't see it but in your pain you are lashing out at people who have no motive to hurt you.
Let me talk about me OWH. And not you. I don't know two years later whether it was two men or a football team. Unfortunately that is the doubt that lies to protect wayward behavior, past present or future. I know first hand. Sending your anger at well meaning posters (right or wrong) who may lack the turn of phrase, vocabulary or tact you need right now does not solve your problem. Sadly, many of us know your pain.
But for right now, this poster would rather have you get P.O.'d at him rather than to have you go off on your wife. You both are in a very difficult situation with no winners, just losers.
I am sincere in telling you I wish I could take away your anger and the pain that accompanies it.
How you handle the circumstance you are in will test your love, your will power and YOUR TACT and DIPLOMACY.
Perhaps if you are willing to let go of "being right" and settle for just learning the concepts so that you can make your own decisions you will be best off.
We are here for you if you will give us the chance. No one here created your situation. Please keep that in mind.
And just about everyone here has had to deal with the anger and pain you are experiencing - the good news is that while right now it is close to the worst it will ever be... in time, you can make it better. Play the odds and read the playbook here. I am only responding because I have been where you are.

Hurting Turkey

Verified is Good. Sorry it was someone close tho. Opportunity + Condoms = a possible PA. Distance from a AP helps you kill the A quicker. But at least now you know the full truth. Or do you?I will tell you that if he's close and now that its VERIFIED you need to Expose.
You see all WS's garble the same crap. Its like its bread into them play for play.

OWH,

Can you give us an update? How are things going with you and your W? Did you guys decide to work through this?

Thinking of you both

CV

Yeah don't get back in that old halter, your not realy a horse, come here and get some life sir.

Thanks for your interest, CV and CP.

Yes, we're still working on keeping our marriage together. There was a tremendous amount of damage done with all the lying to cover her affair. She still hasn't admitted to anything I didn't prove through my investigation, so at this point, I'm still denied a foundation on which to build a sense of honesty between us.

We're engaged with a second MC. This one is a little better, but still singing the tired old "adultery as a symptom of a broken marriage" song. I know it's not true, so I'm taking opportunities as they arise to educate her on the distinctive psychology of affairs. The MC is helping in other areas, though, so we're sticking with it for now.

I'm sure the affair is over. I'm sure it was killed the moment I found the condoms. My wife's been under very strict, surreptitious, observation since about ten days after discovery. With the exception of the day I finally "tricked" her into contacting him (how I finally exposed her affair partner), she's had no contact with him and she's enthusiastically embraced our family.

I believe her issue with exposing the whole truth is a lingering tendency to want to control the situation and protect me from the hurt of knowing how far she went with the OM. It's ridiculous, though. I've uncovered so much evidence that I almost feel sorry for her being so trapped in her lies.

Our counseling is now being split into individual sessions, so I'll finally get to fully express my side in this mess. Maybe the MC will be able to convince WW that our marrriage has no chance if she insists on maintaining secrecy concerning her affair.

In any event, I'm fully engaged in what MB refers to as Plan A. WW responded strongly and favorably. A couple of weeks back, we were in the pool and she told me she's faliing in love with me all over again. I'm not making a big deal out of the fact that I believe (actually, am about 99% sure) that she's withholding information. As she realizes my "Plan A" is a permanent change on my part, I think she'll finally come around and trust me with full disclosure.

Again, thanks for checking in on me, and CV, I hope things get better with your wife. I was quite disturbed to read what she went through -- and that her operation will have to be repeated. Still have you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Old War Horse,

Just a quick comment. My H refused to be open and honest for close to 2 years post D-day. It was not to protect me. It was to protect himself. Like all people in affairs, he had done some horrible things. But, it was not until he said them out loud and made a commitment to being open and honest with me that recovery could even start. He became a different, improved man when he became an honest man.

AM

Yes, I realize there's probably an element of self-protection involved (and that it's probably the main element). It's one thing to act in such a manner, it's another thing entirely to expose it to the light of day.

There's been a long break between findings at this point. After all, it's a very painstaking process to rebuild the last four years of someone's life. So far, I'm back to December 2009 and find her contact with OM to be in full swing at that point, so I will continue with the reconstruction.

I am so sorry. I vividly recall doing the same thing a couple of years ago. My H and I attended an MB weekend (online now) in Jan of 2010. I am not sure what our coach said to H in the first phone call the following week. Two days later, H stopped lying and aside from a minor time when he withheld a piece of information about something he wanted to do, has not lied since.

AM

Well you know how important openess and honesy is to the intimacy of your marriage. I truly feel for you that you cannot trust your wife yet to spill the beans about her secret life.

In my marriage there was allways a push to put things in the past, and move on from here, and that should of only been done after total transparency. Even down to the thoughts that she might have had daily that eventually drove her to waywardness.

The burden of her thoughts and her nature towards me when they came upon her were part of the reasons she became so distant, and we fell apart. She had a black and white outlook on herself, right or wrong, good or bad, holy or evil, and did not see that actions could be seen that way, but the mind is not that simple.

I am hoping that she will be able to confide her thoughts to you, and you can help her with her issues, once you have all the facts, and can approach her with the truth. It might be called an intervention, and if you have a close and trusted friend who she trusts also, maybe you two can work together.

Then once the truth comes out, and there is true repentance, you can work on sharing your lives together, and forgivness can start to be implemented. Just don't make the mistake of sweeping this all under the rug, or giving up on transparency. You guys need that honesty to restore intimacy.

This could be a snowball effect started a long time ago based on the fallacy that some things should be left secret, and that is bull. Not sharing everything is like lieing to yourself when you are married, and even the worse things can be worked out, if there is commitment to truth. Truth is stranger than fiction, but us humans think we can hide in make believe, and live double lives, so the people don't see how messed up we really are.

I pray you will be able to restore the most prescious part of your marriage, your best friend who will love you and stick by you as long as you share your life with them, and that she will share hers with you.

Until then, are you reading the books, spending UA time together, and identifing each others needs? This might be tough right now, because she is being so secretive, but maybe she needs some inspiration to see there is another life she could have, if she tried.


Keep us posted, praying for the best.