Hi, I am new to forum discusions but desperate to figure out how to help us put a plan together to get through this time and save our marriage.

Some background - we have been married 30 years, however, went through extreme tough times after our first child was born, did not have or know of tools to work together in marriage to address and resolve issues between us, grew apart and I ended up having an affair. We struggled to repair but still did not know how, we were young and really hurt each other and we ended up divorcing. We continued to have relationship for most part but we also both ended up involved with others as well. After several years and many ups and downs ended up remarrying and have been together ever since. We have been through many other trials along the way but also many good times. We have 3 children, the youngest still in college.

A year ago we participated in the Marriage Builders class and worked through many issues and strengthened our marriage using the tools we learned in the class. It was a painful but growing time for both of us. We moved forward happier. We have not been great at keeping up with all of the tools we learned and now unfortunately are faced with world turned completely upside down again and need help determing how to best utilize the tools we learned to work through this and save our marriage.

Now for the excruciatingly painful part of this. The issue is that I ended up with his brother inappropriately while we were not married. I knew this was wrong immediately and it was a something that really just happened because we were drinking, more of a one night stand, no feeling type of thing for which I immediately felt remorseful and panic stricken as I desperately still loved and wanted only to have my husband back. The relationship was ended but really never started, but ended and all ties cut off and only connection from then on was cordial conversation in family settings. He went on to marry his second wife a short time later which ended in divorce, battled alcohol and other issues for many years and died earlier this year. When he died, he had no had contact with his children for quite some time, but now they are all expecting to receive money or something, but there is none as he was on disability and used all of his money for alcohol and let all insurance policies lapse and we ended up with the funeral bill as my husband is executor of his estate. Because the kids think they are being kept from something that is theirs, one of them sent my husband a message acusing us of not giving them what was due because of what happened between him and I years ago. I actually had no other feelings for him so has never been discussed due to the extreme sensitivity, anguish, fear of how my husband would react and not wanting to put him through the pain knowing he would never understand and take it for what it was. Now I do not know how to work through this and resolve. I love my husband completely and do not want to lose him over something that happened so long ago and really meant nothing. We are both devastated right now, not sleeping, eating, able to function for almost a week now. We are lashing out and bringing up all the past hurts that we had resolved. We unfortunately are not even in the same state right now due to job obligations.

I am trying to figure out if this is something we can work through using the marriage builder tools on our own or if would benefit by telephone counseling to get plan in place? I desperately love my husband and cannot bear the thought of losing him and I hate the pain he is in right now and need to figure out how best to help him and help us I am also in exxtreme pain - our marriage is vital to me and I am willing to do whatever it takes to save it. I am terrified to post this as I do not want our children or anyone we know to figure out who we are but I need help and appreciate any suggestions and advice to start resolving so eventually we can have this behind us and move forward deeper in love and meeting each others needs each and every moment of every day the rest of our lives.

Thank you

The consequences of adultery will reach out forever.

I think of what King David said in The Book Of Psalms; "My sin will always be before me". He was refering to his own adultery. And he was right!



If you went to the MB Weekend, you should be posting your questions on the weekend forum rather than the open forum. Dr. Harley will give you some answers there as well as continued coaching for free.

Does your husband know about this?

4ever,

I think you may get some posts here that may sound angry and abrupt. Read them with an open mind because what is being said is how you may be able to turn this around.

Sometimes the things that hurt most are the ones that ring true. OK?

Are you sure that you took the MB class? I find it hard to believe that you can say "it just happened"..."extreme sensitivity not wanting to put my husband through the pain...etc,etc

The first thing you have to do is to be completely honest and open with your H. You have to stop trying to minimize, rationalize, and painting his brother as the bad guy.

YOU chose to have a ONS with his brother because you have poor boundaries. End of story.

Your H desrves to know the truth so that he can make decisions about his life knowing the full truth. Not telling him what happened is not protecting him...it is manipulating him. You are protecting YOURSELF not him.

You cannot recover until you become 100% open and honest.

Please go back and review the materials from the MB weekend. Or click on the link "how to survive infidelity" in the yellow box on the right of your screen. You will find your answers there.

I have read this again and am very confused about the source of the problem. Is the problem that the BIL's children want money? Does your H know of the affair? Can you clarify why you are fighting?

And I also am confused when you say you have been through the MB weekend, but are not using the concepts at all. Why? And if you went through the MB course, wouldn't you consult Dr Harley and/or your coach directly?

What I am getting from this, is that you shagged your BIL, while he and you were both unmarried, then got back together with your DH, and didn't tell him about it. He just recently found out from his nieces/nephews.

If you went to an MB weekend, wouldn't you have done an exercise on Radical Honesty, and wouldn't you have had to tell each other about your sexual past? Did you keep this from him? Is that what the problem is here? Is it because your DH found out that you have not led a quite so honest life, and he feels betrayed now?

He does now, but when we were not married, neither of us shared details of what we did, so never told him.

We did not attend MB weekend, we attended 8 week class at church a year ago, not sure if can post to weekend forum for coaching and advice?

I am reading all with an open mind as I do want to turn this around.

We took the MB class a year ago, this happened 23 years ago during the time we were divorced. I was young and made a grave mistake - yes you are right on poor boundaries. If only this class would have been available when we originally married, I believe we would never have succumbed to affair and divorce originally and certainly this would never have happened, but I cannot change past, only work at rebuilding today.

You are right I did choose to have the ONS, and need to be 100% honest, but problem is my H wants all details like why it happened, when it happened, where it happened and the issue is I really do not remember much at all, was not like a thought out romantic evening and biggest memory is that it was disgusting and wrong and basically pushed it so far back in memories like a traumatic experience that you end up having anmesia over it, basically ONS, end of story.

I am sure I am trying to protect me, but also not easy to say his B was really blah among other issues.

I am in process of reviewing MB materials and link on how to survive infidelity, so hopefully will make a difference and be helpful.

Thank you for your suggestions.

The BIL's children think we are keeping money and/or other items due them from their father - fact is he had nothing, less than $100 in bank, dozens of empty bottles of alcohol, a rented apartment, lapsed insurance policies- so we are paying the funeral bill and a few belongings. Because of this, his daughter thought my H, who is executor of estate, was keeping things from her because of what happened long ago between her father and I and indicated her father had told her what happened. Until then, my H knew nothing about it as it happened 23 years ago during period we were divorced and neither of us shared what went on in that time period. We are fighting because my H feels betrayed, devastated and wants to end our marriage which we have worked so hard at and come so far and not work on the fact that it happened so long ago during a time we were not together and was over as quickly as it started. I do not want to lose him and trying to figure out best way to work through. Currently we are lashing out about all the pains of that time period.

We went through the MB class a year ago, we went through a lot of painful stuff during the class and grew a lot. We have since slipped back into some old habits and a bit rusty and hoping for some suggestions that may help immediately as it has engulfed our lives, he is in another state working and neither of us are sleeping so neither of us has clear mind. I am reviewing MB info and links on site, but never knew there was a way to consult with Dr. Harvey through forum discussions, thought the only way was to schedule telephone conference which I am strongly considering.

Yes on your understanding.

We did 8 week class at church and yes I am sure we did exercise on Radical Honesty, but not sure either of us shared all sexual pasts so yes that is the problem here. He is hurt, feels betrayed and sure he should. I know 2 wrongs do not make a right, but he was involved with someone after we remarried for a lengthy time and we worked through that and have grown stronger and especially after the MB class, so I feel that it is wrong to throw our marriage away because of something that happened 23 years ago especially all we learned through MB class. Yes it was wrong, but does not seem fair to not try to work through and save marriage.

The "original" betrayal may have happened 23 years ago, but if you and your BIL were ever together in a group setting with your BH after that time, each time you saw each other and kept silent about what happened between you was another betrayal.

Don't you understand that this was a double betrayal for him? Not only did his wife betray him, but so did his brother and now his brother is dead. Can you imagine the pain of finding out that your own brother betrayed you in this way with your wife? And even worse, you went through the MB classes together and STILL didn't come clean with him.

Of course he deserves to know the details, this happened to him too even though he wasn't there. He has the right to know what happened in his own life.

We have some other posters here who have spouses that betrayed them with a close relative. It took extra strength and courage to recover those marriages. Some of them didn't make it.

I'm sorry, but this is not going to be easy for either of you. To your BH, it's like D-Day all over again. You might have been divorced at the time this happened, but it does not excuse the fact that you chose to sleep with his BROTHER.

Trying to shift the blame to him because he also had an affair during this time is wrong on your part. He didn't sleep with your sister did he? Has he come clean with you about who it was?

This is a very hard situation because of the double betrayal with a family member. I suggest you email the radio show and try to get some help directly from the Harleys.

You keep dropping a new bomb every few posts. Leaving out key details makes giving help extremely difficult. Could you give us a time line?

Why the first divorce?
Did either of you date during the separation?
Who dated who after the divorce?
Did you have a EA or PA with the BIL before or during the separation.
What happened after the divorce?
Was the BIL married when your A happened?
Does the OMW/SIL know?
What's the deal with your H's involvement with his OW?

4evermyluv, the course you were involved in was not a MB course, per se, but probably a church run or privately organized course where MB materials were used. That is good in that it gave you a background in Marriage Builders. At least you have a good start.

The downside is that since it was a private course and not one operated by the Harleys, it doesn't get you access to the private forum. But there are other ways.

One of which is to get phone counseling with Steve Harley or Dr Jennifer Chalmers, both Dr Harley's children. They can guide you and your husband out of this morass. I agree it would be tragic to lose your marriage. To do this, click on the counseling link at the top of the page.

4ever,

We are fighting because my H feels betrayed, devastated and wants to end our marriage which we have worked so hard at and come so far and not work on the fact that it happened so long ago during a time we were not together and was over as quickly as it started.

Recognize that although the betrayal was YEARS ago, you have implicitly lied to your H for all those years as well, and recovery does not begin until disclosure of the event, not the event itself.

He also feels the absolute humiliation of being a cuckold in the eyes of his brothers children and his brother who knew the truth before he did.

How did your H treat his brother in the years between the affair and his brothers death?

God Bless
Gamma

Very good insight to what is going through you BH's mind and a very good question about their relationship during the time before, during, and post affair.

This was on the radio show today. I am listening now.

What did you think about Dr Harley's advice, 4evermyluv? For those who didn't hear it [and you can listen to it now in the rebroadcast or pull up the 7-26 show] Dr H told her to get her BIL's journal so her H can read it himself. Dr H thinks her H probably thinks there was more than a ONS and reading the journal will tell him otherwise.

He also said that they need to follow the POUA, PORH and the POJA. Her H travels for a living now and Dr H told her that is not a good idea for their marriage.

Hello 4ever,

As someone who is living your H nightmare, I would like to share a perspective that was perhaps not emphasized in the radio show...

Fraud.

Even though your H and yourself divorced and had other sexual partners and then remarried he was not given the truth about WHO one of your sexual partners were before you deceived him into marriage...

and whether he wanted to remain in close personal contact with your sexual partner for the rest of his life.

While you both told him you loved him WHILE lying to him.

And it was deceived otherwise you would have not hidden it for all of these years.

You realized in your heart he might NOT want to be married to you if he knew about his own brother.

He was FORCED by your silence to endure it until it was found out...

Unlike HIS sexual partners YOU did not have to have contact with them at every family gathering...

Forever.

And in his eyes you mocked him and rubbed his face in it at EVERY family gathering.

You never gave him the truth and the chance to decide for himself if he wanted to be married to a woman that would have sex with his own brother.

How many of HIS sex partners sat across from you at family gatherings remembering having sex with him...

and sharing your secret with each other?

How many of his sexual partners would you like to invite for the holidays?

And now because of your silence to protect YOURSELF...

He cannot even confront his brother for his betrayal...

You robbed him of even that.

You wondered why he was angry NOW...

Well, there you have it.

The good news is that there is hope for even this...

When you understand HIS pain...

and listen to what Dr.Harley told you.

God bless.

Jim